the "nice" PD

I view being nice as acting in a way which you believe will be beneficial to others. It may also be beneficial to yourself or it may not. I personally think telling the truth is nice because having the correct information is beneficial, even if that information is distressing to learn about. Then there are harmony seeking behaviours which are geared towards reducing the stress felt as a result of conflict, and these may or may not be nice, because conflict itself can be beneficial.

is nice passive or active
something you or something you don't do
it says a lot about stands and the times we live in
right?

In my case, it's both. It's "active" because it's a defense mechanism; not being nice could possibly lead to some kind of minor altercation or, at the very least, an extension or any discourse with the person I am being nice to. This is what avoidants do not want.
It's passive because I do it naturally, almost spontaneously.
In this way, being "nice" can be seen as a very passive form of manipulation, but then again I see all social behavior as a form of manipulation.

As far as the times we live in, I think being nice counts for less and less. At least that's the case in the U.S., if that's what you mean.

I think you're blurring the lines between kindness and being nice. Kindness is having a generous heart; being nice is a way to manipulate people. A person can be kind, but being nice involves active choice and action.

What I meant by the nice pd was that it was the most preferable one to have (but only by those who don't have it because they have no clue how much pain it actually entails) because, again, it's easy to manipulate people. You catch more flies with honey, in a nutshell. If you are borderline and you tell people your diagnosis, everyone will get their hackles up. If they have a clue about PD's and you say you are avoidant, they'll relax, because avoidant people are not going to get up in someone's face and demand something from them. When an avoidant starts making demands, it's over, you are out. Knowing that avoidants will go along with whatever someone else chooses until they completely snap, they are an awesome target if someone wants to control someone else. And to pretend you are avoidant, then you are the ultimate manifestation of a wolf in sheep's clothing.

By that way, indeed AvPD and SzPD tend to be the nicest to interact with. I ve mentioned DPD, because despite their clingness they are nevertheless kind and nice. However, dealing with such a clinger may be much more exhausting. Now with SzPD, things tend to go smooth, unless you depend on some emotional support. So I guess that to 99% of the people dealing with the schizoid is easy, but family, including kids, old parents, and wife/husband may have trouble with it.

I also believe that my father is on the schizoid/anankastic spectrum, and despite not having many argues with him, now I know how much damaging the lack of emotional support and encouraging was. My father never encouraged me to realize anything, he just placed some demands, nevertheless I wouldt call him demanding.

inverse wrote:I think you're blurring the lines between kindness and being nice. Kindness is having a generous heart; being nice is a way to manipulate people. A person can be kind, but being nice involves active choice and action.

What I meant by the nice pd was that it was the most preferable one to have (but only by those who don't have it because they have no clue how much pain it actually entails) because, again, it's easy to manipulate people. You catch more flies with honey, in a nutshell. If you are borderline and you tell people your diagnosis, everyone will get their hackles up. If they have a clue about PD's and you say you are avoidant, they'll relax, because avoidant people are not going to get up in someone's face and demand something from them. When an avoidant starts making demands, it's over, you are out. Knowing that avoidants will go along with whatever someone else chooses until they completely snap, they are an awesome target if someone wants to control someone else. And to pretend you are avoidant, then you are the ultimate manifestation of a wolf in sheep's clothing.

I think I was speaking from my own experience more than I realized. All that anger and bitterness I've spoken of before, the need for closure on too many fronts, and that puerile "the world owes me" attitude that I can't overcome no matter how I try, all of this, I think, has led to me being not as kind a person as I once was. What's worse is, I don't look at this as it necessarily being a handicap, because I tell myself the world is too cutthroat for me to be overly kind; it's cost me too much in the past.

That saying "Nice guys finish last" might be more accurately put as "Kind guys finish last", because niceness can be a tool, it can be insincere, a front that sometimes must be penetrated to see if there is actual kindness behind it. I maintain that I believe I use niceness as a tool/weapon/defense because I'm sick of being tricked by it myself.

But this is me. Maybe I don't really understand what being kind really is anymore. Yet I believe in that whole "what goes around comes around" thing very deeply. I believe there's a link between the continuity and randomness of reality that we are not privy to understanding. Maybe I'm talking about karma, but in more of a, dare I say, metaphysical sense than a spiritual one.

Oh dear, where have I wandered off to and what am I talking about? I'm not really sure. Maybe that's it. I'm talking and talking here but maybe I just don't have any idea. That's not a disclaimer, it's just the sound of someone still trying to work it out, I guess.

creative_nothing wrote:I also believe that my father is on the schizoid/anankastic spectrum, and despite not having many argues with him, now I know how much damaging the lack of emotional support and encouraging was. My father never encouraged me to realize anything, he just placed some demands, nevertheless I wouldt call him demanding.

I'm with you on that one. I wouldn't call my father demanding either because he placed demands on me but never seemed to care if I followed through.

I often wonder: If I had proper parents, would I have gone further in life? And if I had, how much further would I have gone until my MH issues began to hold me back? How responsible are my parents for my MH issues, and to what extent? This is a can of worms I have no intention on opening right now, but it's something to think about.

Looking forward to the new year since I will be changing my secondary insurance in the hopes that I will be able to resume some kind of talk therapy. My current plan offers nothing decent. I really need to talk to someone. I'm losing all objectivity.

Marcus555 wrote:
That saying "Nice guys finish last" might be more accurately put as "Kind guys finish last", because niceness can be a tool, it can be insincere, a front that sometimes must be penetrated to see if there is actual kindness behind it. I maintain that I believe I use niceness as a tool/weapon/defense because I'm sick of being tricked by it myself.

But this is me. Maybe I don't really understand what being kind really is anymore.

It's simply not expecting to be thanked for helping people.

That saying exists because of certain people acting nice solely to gain rewards or pity from people.

Most people don't appreciate being tricked by "niceness" either.

Animosity wrote:

Marcus555 wrote:
That saying "Nice guys finish last" might be more accurately put as "Kind guys finish last", because niceness can be a tool, it can be insincere, a front that sometimes must be penetrated to see if there is actual kindness behind it. I maintain that I believe I use niceness as a tool/weapon/defense because I'm sick of being tricked by it myself.

But this is me. Maybe I don't really understand what being kind really is anymore.

It's simply not expecting to be thanked for helping people.

That saying exists because of certain people using niceness solely to gain rewards or pity from people.

Well that makes sense to me, so maybe I'm not as far gone as I'd thought. Still, it would be helpful if I was able to look at myself more objectively. Or maybe doing that is not as easy as I believe it is?

Marcus555 wrote:Well that makes sense to me, so maybe I'm not as far gone as I'd thought. Still, it would be helpful if I was able to look at myself more objectively. Or maybe doing that is not as easy as I believe it is?

Of course it isn't going to be easy, that doesn't mean you should give up trying to get to that point.

…which is why I'm looking forward to resuming therapy.