Hi, new here.

I don’t really know where to start. I found this place while doing some research on the Enneagram Personality Types. From what I read APD is more likely to affect someone of my personality type so I looked into it and APD seems to fit me perfectly.

(Incase anyone is wondering or would like to know, I believe I am a Self-Preservation Five with a strong Four wing in the Enneagram Personality Types.)

When I was young I never had more than a few friends. I always kept to myself; never daring to speak to other kids. Whenever I did make friends, there had to be a similar subject of interest right off; for me, usually something Nintendo related.

I remember looking up to everyone who could just be themselves and have a good time. I just sat by myself though; hoping someone would notice me and invite me to join in. There was one time this happened that I have always been grateful for. The whole school went roller skating. I didn’t know how to so I sat at the far end of the building just thinking to myself. After a while a group of students a few years older than me came by and basically cheered me up and taught me how to skate. I look back on that happy memory a lot.

Fast forward to the start of High School. My close friends from before started hanging out in a larger group. I knew all of them, so I was fairly comfortable with the group setting. After a while one of them started making fun of me, so the stress built up and I stopped hanging out with any of them. I wouldn’t have minded seeing any of the rest; especially my closer friends from before, but I was very insecure about the whole thing. I kept to myself for most the remainder of that year, just wondering what they thought of me.

Now, over the last year is when things really got out of hand. A combination of insecurities about friends and my dropping out of school sent me into a huge depression. It was half way through my Junior year. I destroyed all outside connections and sat at home all day. Then I met someone online. Instantly, I could talk and share any of my deepest feelings; something I have always longed for, but have been too insecure to do. I was closer to this person than I had ever been to anyone; even my own family. After a few months of this I felt confident enough to hang out with friends again, and even start my first job.

That was around May. Early this fall, insecurities made work unbearable and I quit. During the last little bit of time I worked I was always coming in late or calling in. I hate not doing my best because I worry what others will think so I felt I had to quit. After nine months of speaking to my online friend everyday, that fell apart too. A while into summer, the two of us developed a closer and more intimate relationship. This was something I never wanted to do; the thought of being so close to someone was always very nerving and something I didn’t want to put up with. It worked though, because we became so close before hand. But anyways, the entire relationship fell apart this fall. They pushed and pushed me to fulfill their needs, and soon my needs didn’t seem to matter at all. For the first time I was insecure about this person and I felt I couldn’t handle the commitment and pressure.

So now I am back where I started; out of school and sitting around all day. I have a few friends, but they never come to me to do anything, and most of the time they aren’t too dependable. I really miss that closeness I had. I’m not looking for a relationship. After having been through my first, it only confirmed my feelings and fears about them. I wish I had mature friends that felt the same, but from what I can tell that kind of closeness only comes with a relationship to most people.

One of my biggest dilemmas right now is my closest friend. We have a lot in common, which really helps me strike up the courage to even talk to him. We are both very shy and quiet. Neither one of us ever wants to decide on what we should do together, but I usually end up doing so, just so things don’t get awkward. I get nervous about what he is thinking about me all the time.

I tend to play things out in my mind constantly so if they do happen I will be ready. Because of that I sit at home all day gaining information about myself and others. I spend all my time either feeling nervous about what others think or about what I am doing with my life, self soothing by fantasizing about whatever I think would make me feel more secure and happy, or studying about whatever I think would make me feel more secure and happy.

I don’t really know what I should do with myself. I don’t feel capable of doing anything. I want to see a therapist, but money is a huge problem. I also fear going back to one because I seemed to have made my last one upset with me. I felt intimidated and I have a really hard time sharing how I feel if I’m not asked the right questions. So I basically sat most of the time and instead of setting up another appointment he said to call if I needed one. He seemed irritated.

I’m nervous to even post this because I fear I don’t have APD and will be ridiculed for assuming so or that this whole thing was pointless anyways. It seems absolutely stupid to fear what kind of impression I will give off or receive from complete strangers but I do anyways. I’m not really sure what I should expect back either. It’s just my story I guess.

I want to get things back to normal. Going back to this being by myself all day has really put me back into my depression. Sometimes I feel inspired to turn things around with school, or to talk to a friend. It never really lasts to long though. I start to play in out in my head, thinking mostly of all the negative possibilities, and feelings of being overwhelmed completely discourage me.

Hi Iconoclast,

The Enneagram is very familiar to me and I relate to many of the problems and feelings you mentioned in your post. I am a 5 with a strong 4 wing as well and there in lies the rub. It's not easy being a a 5w4.

For those, who are already lost, this post will contain a lot of Ennegram lingo.

As you know, the fear of being incompetent lies at the heart of the 5 and that the reduction of needs is one way to cope with the anxiety that springs from that, another one is information gathering and conceptualizing. The four on the other hand is the part of you that escapes into fantasy and that has trouble with identity. Both lead to increased isolation and can cause depression (and other more scary stuff). Anyways, you know all this and also know that the way to health lies in the direction of integration. The four integrates to 1, that is, becomes practical, disciplined with good judgement; and the five integrates to 8, that is becomes action-oriented and shows leadership capacity. You (we) already know very well what disintegration feels like (it is very well described in the book also).

Now, in order to move to 8 and 1, it is important to give up some of the behaviours that the 5 and 4 display when anxious, i.e. give up the fantasyzing, conceptualizing, fretting, isolation, worrying, frantic data gathering. And that is simple, but very hard to accomplish. And that's where this forum comes in. Although not everybody here is a 5 or 4, they all have anxieties, are introverted, fear failure and rejection etc., so what helps them, applies to them, can help you as well. I suggest to read some of the posts around Cognitive Behaviour Therapy and any others than ring a bell for you.

Coming here to share your situation is a good start. I hope, the four in you can handle being one of many on this forum.

Regarding identity and place in the world (even though you did not mention that), trying to define yourself by listing how you are different from others will lead to more isolation and depression. You can define yourself by relating to others, by creating your own place within a group, a network of relationships like a web (the pattern is your choice). Hopefully this makes sense.

And I hope this helps,

Dragonfly.

Thank you for the reply Dragonfly. It was nice to have all that summarized for me. I still don’t know how to apply Integration to myself though.

Being a Five, one of my subjects of mastery has become the Enneagram itself. I read books all the time, and I know what I need to do to help myself. It isn’t enough though. I just can’t seem to understand it and apply it to myself. I need to share things with someone else so they can help by seeing the whole picture. I can’t do that either though. I’m not comfortable talking to my family, and I’m not sure if I can talk to friends either.

I don’t know what it even means to have friends now that I think of it. I don’t know what friendship entails. Every once and a while a friend will pop by, and it’s very awkward. I just don’t know what to do, and I get very nervous. We always end up playing Halo. It keeps us busy till they have to go. Once they are gone I feel drained as well as wanting more; wishing I had done more than just sit there and play. On rare occasion I’m invited to go do something with friends. But before I even stop to think about whether or not I would enjoy it, I’ve already made up an excuse not to go.

I wish someone would see how much inner torment I’m in and just talk to me. The problem is I don’t show it. If I do manage to slip in how I am feeling, no one realizes how real it is to me because I seem just fine on the outside. I do ok socially for the most part. I come off as shy and quiet, but I can put on a smile and joke around. No one else seems to need to talk like I do. Every one is content with life.

I have one friend that is like me from what I can tell. He is shy, quiet, and keeps to himself. He is depressed a lot like me, but I don’t know how to talk to him. I think we could really help each other if we talked, but I don’t know. As much as I need help, a part of me constantly wants to help others; if I can find out what others need, I’ll know what I need. Anyone I can relate to. I don’t know how to engage in conversation though. With this friend, I am the one that has to take the initiative to talk or ask if he wants to hang out.

Every now and then I become stressed out and completely isolate myself. No one notices. If they do they never say anything. I go weeks by myself worrying what others think about me, not daring to show myself again. I’ve been like this for the last week or so; unable to post again or talk with anyone. Staying up all night and thinking to myself. I’m just coming out of it now, I’ve seen a therapist again and that helped.

What bothers me most right now is friends; anyone to talk to and hang out with. I just don’t know how it all works anymore. I fear what they think of me, and what kinds of impressions I give. I want to know what others believe friendship is, but I’m too nervous to bring it up because I fear what they will think of me. I want to show who I really am, but I’m worried what they will think. I have this mask on to come off as normal and happy. I want to take it off, but I don’t know if I should. I don’t even know what’s really under the mask. I’m worried I’m looking for something others don’t have. I’m in constant fear of what would happen if I shared how I really feel. I don’t want to make things uncomfortable, but I’m not comfortable either. I don’t know what friendship is anymore.

Iconoclast wrote:Thank you for the reply Dragonfly. It was nice to have all that summarized for me. I still don’t know how to apply Integration to myself though.

Being a Five, one of my subjects of mastery has become the Enneagram itself. I read books all the time, and I know what I need to do to help myself. It isn’t enough though.

Yes, that's true. Knowledge just isn't enough and it takes more than that to apply it. I must admit, I also tried to learn everything about the Enneagram at one point. I analyzed myself and everyone else. It did not change me, although I was more aware of my behaviour and thinking patterns. Other got quickly tired of it as well.

Iconoclast wrote:I just can’t seem to understand it and apply it to myself. I need to share things with someone else so they can help by seeing the whole picture. I can’t do that either though. I’m not comfortable talking to my family, and I’m not sure if I can talk to friends either.

That's where a therapist or support group (or this forum for that matter) can come in handy. You mention further down, that you sometimes see a therapist. That's a good idea. The need to share is very real (and normal) and if you have noone else, a therapist or forum is the way to go.

Iconoclast wrote:I don’t know what it even means to have friends now that I think of it. I don’t know what friendship entails. Every once and a while a friend will pop by, and it’s very awkward. I just don’t know what to do, and I get very nervous. We always end up playing Halo. It keeps us busy till they have to go. Once they are gone I feel drained as well as wanting more; wishing I had done more than just sit there and play. On rare occasion I’m invited to go do something with friends. But before I even stop to think about whether or not I would enjoy it, I’ve already made up an excuse not to go.

Yep, sounds avoidant/socially anxious to me. I have felt similar on occasion, but not for a very long time. Most people take their social skills for granted, but it is really hard to feel so lost when wanting to relate so urgently. One thing is for sure, you are certainly on the right board for these issues. Try not to beat yourself up every time a social interaction does not work out the way you like. Consider it a learning experience and keep going.

Iconoclast wrote:I wish someone would see how much inner torment I’m in and just talk to me. The problem is I don’t show it. If I do manage to slip in how I am feeling, no one realizes how real it is to me because I seem just fine on the outside.

That is so typical, the all-purpose mask. I think, almost all of us here have one.

Iconoclast wrote:I do ok socially for the most part. I come off as shy and quiet, but I can put on a smile and joke around. No one else seems to need to talk like I do. Every one is content with life.

That's the difference. They don't need it, but you do. Keep in mind, they probably have more relationships and social interaction in their lives. You are for the most part socially/emotionally isolated, that is there is noone to fill that need. That's kind of like starving. Give yourself a break and be gentle with yourself.

Iconoclast wrote: ... As much as I need help, a part of me constantly wants to help others; if I can find out what others need, I’ll know what I need. ....

This is interesting and possibly not true. I have the impression that you already know what you need, i.e. social interaction, friends, someone to talk to, to laugh with. Maybe another boardmember can chirp in here.

Most people that help others all the time, are either 1) true altruists or 2) hope to gain love/respect etc. from others by helping so much or 3) something in between.

Iconoclast wrote:Every now and then I become stressed out and completely isolate myself. No one notices. If they do they never say anything. I go weeks by myself worrying what others think about me, not daring to show myself again. I’ve been like this for the last week or so; unable to post again or talk with anyone. Staying up all night and thinking to myself. I’m just coming out of it now, I’ve seen a therapist again and that helped.

I have done this and still do so way too often, worry and stress about what others might think of me. The irony is that in reality people spend very little time thinking about you or me. We are just not that important, in a positive way. I have seen lots of evidence for this, where I called people on my assumptions and they did not even remember the event I was referring to or had no feelings about it one way or the other. Many of them simply do not evaluate social interactions to that degree or at all.

Iconoclast wrote:...I don’t even know what’s really under the mask. I’m worried I’m looking for something others don’t have. ...

Familiar. To see the mask yourself, plus all your symptoms and the awkwardness, but not really having a sense of who you really are. It can be very confusing and scary. The good thing, even if we don't see it, we do have a unique personality and a real self. It is just burried under so much anxiety. It is a case of not seeing the forest for all the trees. It is like something you see out of the corner of your eye, but whenever you fixate on it, it disappears. Very frustrating!

I hope, you are feeling a bit better today. And keep sharing and posting.

Dragonfly.

So what do I do with myself? I can’t talk to family, because it would be extremely uncomfortable. Its odd, but I am most uncomfortable with the people I am 'closest' to. I can see myself sharing how I feel with almost anyone else though. I spend a lot of time just thinking what it would be like to really talk with someone.

I’m really worried I’ll scare off anyone I try to talk to, and if not that then they won’t take me seriously. I’ve already had the latter happen recently. It was very embarrassing, and I felt like I lost another one of the few people I thought I could talk to.

I’m so tired of living like this. I never eat, I stay up all night, sleep half the day away, and spend the rest sitting at my computer or looking off into space. I go through these highs and lows of depression. Two thirds of the time I feel so overwhelmed I can’t do anything. I hate this heart sinking feeling of nervousness so much.

I guess what I need to know is who I can talk to and how. If a friend sat down and sincerely asked how I was feeling, I could pour my heart out. I know that won’t happen though. So how do I know who would talk to me, and how would I go about doing it? A therapist is nice for understanding myself, but it’s far too expensive, and it’s not the friendship setup I think I need.

I’ve explained things to a friend a little. After about a week of not being able to talk to anyone, I got back on msn, which is the only place we talk apart from real life (and I only see him in real life if I’ve talked on msn and set something up). Anyways, his personal message basically said he was upset. That’s normal for him, (wish I wasn’t afraid to be that open and obvious) but I felt bad for disappearing then and in the past.

So I wrote an email explaining why I disappear, and that it’s nothing he does. That was a few days ago, and I haven’t heard back. He tends to just wait till I get on msn again rather than reply to my emails, but even then, I have to be the one to engage in conversation and he still doesn't directly talk about my emails. After writing that email I’m very nervous to see how he will react, and the last thing I want to do is ask him myself.

We don’t have a very close friendship. I think we are both just to shy to do so. Anyways, the friendship isn’t extremely close, but I said some personal things about being depressed and how I deal with it. I did that because I long for someone to talk to about anything and I felt I owned him an explanation; fearing that my disappearing might be contributing to his being upset. But I’m terrified that I may have scared him off. He is very hard to read. Sometimes it seems like he wants a closer friendship, and other times not so much.

Does anyone have some advice as to what I should do? I can answer questions and go into further detail if needed.

Sounds like your friend could have issues, too. Unfortunately, I have no good advice for this. Maybe some other board member has some words of wisdom to this regard.

Dragonfly