Does my boyfriend have avoidant PD?

Hello,

I've been dating this guy for 3 months now and I seriously think he might have AvPD.
The main reason why I think this is because of the little time we spend together. He calls me and we chat online constantly, but the real time together is so limited.
And when he finally comes around, many times for no reason it looks like some switch turns off, and he wants to leave.
None of this makes sense at times, and I am trying to understand him before giving up on this relationship.
He's in his 40s and he's never been married, which is kinda strange, but I guess I'm slowly but surely learning why...
He can be sweet, and nice, but also he's moody and I feel like I'm walking on egg shells.
He won't give me much explanations about any of it. We live far from each other (1h30m drive), which explains the limited time I see him, but I feel like he doesn't really make an effort to see me. If he sees me on Saturday, he thinks it's enough. If I mention it, he withdraws. He gets quiet, or upset, or he just wants to get off the phone.
I have never been to his house, at this point I've given up asking him anymore, he says it's messy, I don't quite understand. We almost broke up one day because I insisted I wanted to see where he lived. Now, I know this could sound suspicious, like as if he had something in the house he didn't want me to see, but what could it be? It's not another girl, because he's always talking to me online, and on the phone, and I trust him that there is not another girl. That would actually be a more logical explanation, but no, there is something else I don't understand.
We go out sometimes but I feel like there is always something wrong or missing, if we're driving is the traffic, if it's a quiet place because it's quiet...
He can't relax. He's even told me that he can't.
He would spend the night over, but it's not easy to get him to lay down and go to sleep. Sometimes he just sits on the bed and stares somewhere in the distance. And I stare at him wondering.
I am not trying to make this work at all costs, I want to make sure I'm not jumping at conclusions with him. He's told me that he has problems opening up and letting anybody in, so I guess I'm trying to see if he will open up some more (he has already more than at first).
I know he loves me, he tells me, but I know there is something that torments him and I don't know what it is. And I don't know if I should know, if I need to know in order to have a relationship with him. But at times I feel that he will never really open up the way I'm hoping. I don't want to write a novel, but I can't think of a different way for me to present him to you than in the contest of our relationship. And sexually there is something different too. He withdraws there too. He'll turn quiet. Then he'll be himself again, but if something (that he thinks) changes, then he'll turn to the other side and get quiet (oh well, he's always quiet).
I can't sit with him and watch a movie. He'll get bored. He won't be able to concentrate (it's been better if we go to the movies, I guess cause he has no choice).
In the end I can't say if he's more bored, absent, uncomfortable... who knows?
I just want to give us a try because, even though all of this, I like him and I know I could love him if only he would let me more in (I can't let myself go completely if I feel he's holding back).
And he always tells me that he cares, and that he loves me and that he really wants this relationship to work too...
Oh, he can't really make plans, he doesn't like to. I always know at the last minute if we're doing something together.
Do you think he has an avoidant personality? And if he does, what can I do different to help him trust me more and open up to me (and take me to his place...).
Thank you very much for reading this, and I hope that they could find a treatment for AvDP (by the way if anything I am on the other side of the scale, being very much into contact and closeness with someone, so you see the dilemma).
hugs,
Debra.

it does sound like he may have it, have you asked him? maybe he's been diagnosed but doesn't want you to know, or maybe he doesn't know he does or it could just be something else...all i can say is i have been diagnosed avpd and most of what he does is what i do...even right down to the small things like not being able to sit through movies ... but also things like how you said he can talk on the net but then in person he finds it hard...i haven't dated in 5 years and a couple of weeks ago i met a guy on the net and we talked for a few weeks but then one day he called me on the phone and i completely freaked out and couldn't deal with it anymore...even though i liked him a lot up until then i just couldn't handle talking on the phone and in person i guess it would be even harder...i really hope that you can work out a way to make it work, it sounds like he really loves you but is just struggling with his own problems...

Hi Nina,

thank you for your response.
I don't know if I could ask him yet, I feel that if he has been diagnosed he wouldn't tell me. Otherwise if he wanted to, he would have done so already.

He has lots of qualifying criteria, like he grew up without a dad, and his mother couldn't really take care of him, so he spent a lot of his childhood years in orphanages or foster homes. Sometimes he'll tell me a story or two about it.

He blames himself for everything, if for example he hurts me by mistake (he'll step on my foot) he will feel so bad about it, no matter how many times I tell him I'm fine.

He says things like "I'm a f**kup", "I have nothing to offer" and I feel horrible about it because no matter what I say he won't back down from his position.

Now, one thing that I'm not sure how does it fit in is his friends. Granted, I've never seen him with his friends yet (or ever, who knows) but he has told me a lot of stories of him hanging out with these guys and having the best of fun, doing all kind of crazy things. But he doesn't go out with them anymore.
So was this in the past, before he developed AvDP, or can someone still have friends and have a good time (I mean is it mostly in a love relationship that there are difficulties or with friends just as well)?

It must be very difficult to live with AvDP. I have somewhat of an idea because I suffer from panic and I've had agoraphobia, so I can relate to the feeling of not wanting to be around people.

But a panic sufferer always has a "safe" person she/he trusts, can do things with. Is it the same for AvDP? Is there such a thing as "safe" person/people? Or is it a total avoidance of everyone?

I apologize for all the questions, but I had no idea AvDP existed until I started looking for answers to his behavior (it was definitely something I had never seen before).

Thank you for letting me share.
Debra

Maybe he lives with his mother and he is embarrassed, that's why he won't let you see his place. And maybe it is horribly messy, and he can't bring himself to clean it. Maybe he is Bipolar, that would explain the moodiness and the messiness. Whatever is wrong with him, if he has been diagnosed, he may be terrified to talk to you about it for fear of being rejected.

I would be careful about assuming he has AvPD (not that you are). There could be a myriad of reasons to explainhis behaviour. You have identified some problems, I think it is important to talk to him about this valid issues.

There are elements in this relationship that aren't healthy. It sounds very lopsided. If he is not willing to seek help, you might be getting yourself involved in a very painful, codependent situation. As much as I feel compassion for your boyfriend, I hope you take care of yourself. I've been in a relationship with someone like this before, and I lost the ability to define healthy boundaries because I wanted to help him. When the relationship ended, I was devastated because I had put so much of myself into it.

Just my opinion based on personal experience... but I wish you the best and hope it works out for you both.

Hi Trence,

your post made me think a lot.

I'm getting a lot of similar response from my friends when I talk about him. Everybody seems to agree on the fact that I'm compromising so much, and I'm starting to see it too.

I feel horrible at walking out of this relationship, because it breaks my heart to see how he can't offer a girl what she wants, yet he's doing the best he can.

I mean, as a panic disorder sufferer, I need and appreciate someone that understands that I can't do certain things sometimes, that I can feel sick for apparently no reason some other times. And as such, I need this person to be able to understand that I can't really control all of it, and to support me when I'm down...

So I've applied this to him, and I think he has every intention of maintaining a relationship, but stuff gets in the way, stuff that he doesn't know how to handle, has a hard time talking about, or doesn't know what's the right thing to do and so on.

And if he has AvPD, from what I read in these posts, people want to be able to stay in a relationship, are hoping that the other person is not going to give up on them. This is what I am trying to do. I don't want to be the just another girl that walked out on him. Maybe in the end I will be. But not just yet. It breaks my heart to see someone not able to cope with basic relationship issues.

You scared me when you mentioned codependency. Gosh, I don't want to be that. Codependent on someone that doesn't give me what I need. How is that even possible? But I know what you mean. If he doesn't give me what I want, then what other reason could there be for me to stick around? Well, maybe because I'm not into jumping in and out of relationships. I feel that since I took this chance with him, I should give him more time than 3 months. But you're right in saying that the longer I stay the harder it will be and more painful the separation.

So you say I should ask him about all of these things that I've mentioned here. But I have at first, and then I've learned from his responses to just let it go. I guess he's training me into accepting things that I usually wouldn't. Or maybe I'm just being weak with him, and not listening to my own needs. He has told me that he knows he has a problem communicating and opening up and that he's trying to change and be better at it. So that's what's kept me around.

I will be more demanding tough. No more letting things slip to avoid him going into silent mode. It's not fair.

Thank you again for your support. If I can't help him, at least these forums are actually helping me see better this situation.
Debra

Debra,

Please understand that I am not a professional, what I share here are strictly my own opinions. Others may (and likely do) not agree with me.

It very well may be that you are strong enough to be able to set boundaries and take care of yourself around someone who has a disorder. I just wanted to caution you to be careful to take care of yourself.

I was feeling a lot of frustration and guilt over a friend I had who was suffering from a disorder and childhood trauma. I constantly felt guilty with this friend, who was so needy and when I said "no" to him, I felt guilty. I have trouble sticking with boundaries. My therapist said, "The only adult you are responsible for is you." I found that powerful and a good yardstick for future relationships/friendships.

There is nothing wrong with wanting to help someone you love, and it is clear that you care about him a great deal. But if he isn't willing to talk about problems that affect you, and he isn't seeking help to change, then he won't change. He is the only one who can change himself. You can encourage him, but if he refuses to talk, what can you do?

I don't know if I am avoidant or not, but I certainly have problems. I am seeing someone now, for the past 6 months, and I am filled with anxieties. But I also know that he is not responsible for making me feel better about myself. I don't want to put that on him, so I have other friends to reason things out with, a support group and I used to have a therapist to talk to.

I would say that it is important for you to express your concerns with your boyfriend. Let him know how much you care about him, and that this is why you need to talk to him about what bothers you so you can understand. Let him know that you have insecurities about why he won't let you see his apartment, why he doesn't contact you as much as you would like. It is important for a relationship to be equal.

It really does sound like he needs some help, and maybe if he is willing to talk about it you could offer to support him through it.

Again, best wishes to you and he.

That sounds so familiar. I'm a guy with AvPD. I remember going out with my first girlfriend in high school. Every date would take emormous effort just for me to hold myself together. I'd try to interact with her, but all I could focus on was keeping from being incredibly awkward and saving myself from extreme depression. I felt so utterly helpless--there was really not much at all that I could do. I just constantly wanted to escape, but also really liked the girl and wanted to be in the relationship.

I'm not trying to toot my own horn, but I'm a very attractive guy. If I'm feeling secure enough, I can be very funny and personable. There are plenty of attractive girls that I know are interested in me. I'm interested in many of them. However, no matter how much I want to believe that I'm attractive, I simply can't. Frankly, I think I'm utterly worthless, and want to tell them "leave me alone, you don't want to have anything to do with me" or "ha, if you really knew me I bet you wouldn't like me." When I try to talk to girls, I can temporarily make mediocre conversation, but all that's going on my head is a constant litany of self-abuse. This is probably what your boyfriend is going through.

In my informed opinion, and my many years of experience with dating (I'm 19 and I've dated two girls in my life), I'd suggest one of two things:

Stay with the relationship, but make sure, no matter what, you don't let your frustration show. I know this sounds really, really hard, and almost counterintuitive, but to get through to this guy you're going to have to have a remarkable amount of patience. Slight signs of "giving up" on him could undo months of work. He needs to be able to trust you absolutely. If he perceives a sign of rejection (whether real or imagined), he's going to try to isolate himself. If he becomes irrationally insecure, you should give him some breathing room, but let him know that you really care about him and are waiting if he wants to talk. And generally, always let him know the many different good qualities that you see in him, and don't let him explain them away.

Or, break up. There's really not any room for error here--once you do it, there's probably no turning back. I know that once someone truly hurts me, I simply cannot talk to them again, even if I badly want to. I even didn't even talk to my brother for a few years because of some insensitivities. As far as the "morality" (I guess) of breaking up with him--even as a sufferer of AvPD, I don't think you should be a martyr for this guy. It's your life, and a healthy relationship is mutual. If there's nothing in it for you, then you have every right to leave. However, if you do, I'm sure you know to be as gentle as humanly possible.

Hi Danny,

thank you for your input. It is so hard for me to believe that so much could be going on inside his head when on the outside he looks pretty normal. Other than the wanting to get away part, of course.

I'm sticking around.

I'll pick option number one. That's what I'd decided already. It's going to be a bit difficult not showing my frustration at times, but it will also help me grow on that aspect, since I've always gotten my way and I now have very little tollerance when things don't go like I want them to. It will hopefully help me build some patience.

I've learned from his reactions and responses that I can't be stern in any way otherwise he closes immediately off. Lots of sweetness. I am sweet, fortunately. I can also be pissy, but with him it doesn't work. I just scare him away. So you're right Danny, lots of encouragement, which I don't mind at all giving him.

But I've also started to be a bit more determined about what I would like from him. Yesterday I told him (well, IMed him) that I want him to take me to his place. He responded "when?" and I answered "as soon as you can". I didn't make a stink out of it, I was very calm but at the same time he got the message that it was something I didn't want to compromise about anymore. Whatever it is that he is not ready about sharing with me, well it's time that he does, otherwise it could be a problem. I think he understood that I was being serious. We'll see what he'll do.
-hopefully he won't wait until I bring it up again-

One other thing that I have been looking at based on the suggestion by trence is if he could be bipolar instead of avoidant. Well, I am not sure if I've ever really seen any happy and manic side in him at all. He's either mellow or quiet. The jumps in mood are more from normal to sad and back to normal. I've never seen him jump around from joy, and definitely never talking without stopping. So while he has a lot of the symptoms he's missing the happy/joy/I can do anything side of it. But I can't make any diagnosis in the end. One day I'll just ask him, not yet, because he's probably not ready to share anyway.

You guys are my new friends here

Thanks,
Debra

on a side note, I've been doing some thinking and while I don't think I am an avoidant, there are some traits about me that make me wonder, like the fact that I don't have many friends, and that I get along better with the ones long distance, that I don't go out of my way to see any friends at all, and because of it lots of times I lose them...

He's lucky to have you.

"he could be bipolar instead of avoidant. Well, I am not sure if I've ever really seen any happy and manic side in him at all. He's either mellow or quiet."

I don't know much about bipolarity, but I know when I'm able to escape my insecurities I'm pretty happy. I doubt it's that.

"Whatever it is that he is not ready about sharing with me, well it's time that he does, otherwise it could be a problem. I think he understood that I was being serious. We'll see what he'll do. "

You have every right to want the relationship to progress, but make sure to be careful. I'm sure that he wants the relationship to progress just as much as you do (and possibly even more). I don't think the problem would be a lack of motivation on his part. I say this mostly based on my own experience--my first girlfriend tried to advance the relationship too quickly (even though I really wanted to, too), and it freaked the crap out of me. I was too scared to even talk to her in person after that. While everyone's psychology is different, and he could have different motivations than me, here's how I work. I know that the people who can most get through to me are those people who make a steady (but not overbearing) effort to get to know me, but never get too close. If the person gets too close too fast, it severely damages the relationship. If the person occasionally "gives up" on me, it also hurts me a lot. However, if they don't hurt me, I slowly let them get close to me. It just takes time. I think of it as a climbing a hill--you make a bunch of small steps, but if you slip you lose a whole lot of progress. The fastest way to get to the top is not to run up it quickly, but just to go slowly and be careful not to slip. I've noticed that for me, like most AvPD, most of my relationships are dominated by the irrational fear that the person is inevitably going to reject me, so I'm constantly looking for hints of that rejection. When I find any trace of it, my mind just runs on it--when someone is a little impatient with me, I think "aha, I knew you would reject me in the end," and violently push them away first so I don't have to deal with rejection, and feel less of all the pain and really overpowering sense of shame/embarassment/worthlessness that comes with it.

Okay, sorry if I'm rambling, but I'll throw in another example to help you see where he's coming from. The beginning of this school year, I was hanging out with a group of people, and things were going alright. However, I kind of detected a trace of condescension that really started to bug me, and hell, for all I know I could have made it up in my head. It very well could just be their frustration at the fact that I was impossible to get through to. One night, we were heading off to some party, and I kind of fell behind. They kept going. I noticed this, and how they didn't really seem to want me around that much earlier, so I just headed home without saying a word. Once they noticed I was leaving, they gave a half-assed effort to get me to come back, but I kept going. The next day, one of them made a pretty weak attempt to act like nothing happened, to patch things up. I acted like nothing happened, either, but I just kind of avoided seeing them at all costs after that. I haven't returned calls. Whenever I see them now I still act semi-friendly, to avoid an awkward confrontation, but frankly I don't want to have anything to do with them. I know it's not really that fair at all, but they absolutely destroyed me. Going back would feel painfully humiliating. To me, it would feel like going back and trying to be friends with someone who had tried to poison my food. And that all happened about 6/7 months ago. I'm sure this all sounds very melodramatic, but that's AvPD.

^^that was me, by the way.