ADD and OCD

Does it strike you as odd that these two would occur together though they are unrelated and have opposite effects on the brain? Do you think people with ADD are more likely to seek partners with OCD, and the reverse? Because I think I inherited one from either side of my family.

It seems odd in that the neurotransmitters involved (dopamine and serotonin) tend to counterbalance one another, but the two parts of the brain involved (prefrontal cortex for ADHD and anterior cingulate gyrus for OCD) make it possible.

There may be a tendency that opposites attract in mates, as an ADHDer might need a focused OCDer, and an anxious OCDer may need a go-with-the-flow ADHDer.

I have a theory that those with BPD and bipolar have such a combination of traits of both, with cycles corresponding with that fluctuating imbalance of dopamine and serotonin levels in the brain. But I've only started looking into the science that might support that theory.

All my sources are saying that ADD is caused by a malfunction of the ACG. And doesn't bipolar disorder tend to have a more or less regular cycle? My balance tips depending on how stressed I am. What's inside my mind is like one of those sitcoms where the two roommates have opposite personalities, but since I've been more relaxed lately, it's usually just ADD at home...asleep in a pile of science magazines on the morning of garbage day.

The first study cited is specifically relating to schizophrenia, and I don't have access to view the details. Smaller ACGs have been observed in schizophrenia sufferers.

The second study acknowledges the PFC's primary role in attention deficit, and investigates other brain areas' contributions:

The prefrontal cortex, based on experimental evidence from both monkeys as well as humans, has been demonstrated to be important not only for memory buffering to permit "on-line" processing but also for inhibition of "prepotent" habitual, albeit sometimes inappropriate, responses. Lesions of the left prefrontal cortex result in impaired performance in the Stroop task. Linguistic tasks requiring the inhibition of reading a noun and the generation of a verb appropriate to the noun result not only in activation of the left prefrontal cortex but also the anterior cingulate. Some human diseases, such as schizophrenia, involving prefrontal (9) and anterior cingulate abnormalities result in impairments in attentional conflict paradigms.

The ACG is responsible for enabling a person to be settled, open-minded, and flexible. If this area is overactive, a person has difficulty shifting attention, and tend to get stuck on particular thoughts. So it makes sense that incongruities from sensory input (a color different than its name) would activate this area during the Stroop test as the brain was trying to process the conflict. However, the studies you cite are not mutually exclusive to other information derived from the spectral scans of underactive PFCs being linked to ADHD.

...You win.

The ACG is responsible for enabling a person to be settled, open-minded, and flexible. If this area is overactive, a person has difficulty shifting attention, and tend to get stuck on particular thoughts.

Wait—does that mean people with OCD are too open-minded and flexible? Because that might explain some things about my past.

Twinkling_Butterfly wrote:Wait—does that mean people with OCD are too open-minded and flexible?

No, actually the thoughts of folks with OCD (and even more so OCPD) are too focused in narrow-mindedness, like a horse with blinders going down a hill. Once a mental path is started it is difficult to slow down or change direction. I also liken it to a computer getting stuck in an endless loop.

If you're too open-minded and flexible, that could be an OC inability to make a decision, and allowing someone else to just to move them forward in some direction. However, I think the ADHD would be much more responsible for this behavior given the traits of lack of motivation, inability to focus to achieve a goal, and flitting from one brief interest to another as prompted by a second person.

Guess I got screwed both ways. (Am I allowed to say that here? Don't ban me, mods!) I was going to say "weak-minded and gullible" might be a better descriptor of my younger self. For that, I've always been inclined to blame my parents and teachers for (as I saw it) devaluing skepticism and independent thought, but...I had doubts and I had my own ideas. I was just afraid to run with them. Wouldn't that be a sign of OCPD? Because my diagnosis is OCD.

Terry Pratchett wrote:The trouble with having an open mind, of course, is that people will insist on coming along and trying to put things in it.

It's OK to be skeptical as long as it's for the right reasons, i.e., based in logical and rational thought. When skepticism is based on any of the Cognitive Distortions (including emotional reasoning), or just because you haven't yet had a life experience that matches that of others such as your parents, that's when your decisions will more often result in negative consequences you didn't anticipate. Parents strive to help their kids prevent mistakes they (or people they know) made years before.

Notice my careful word choice avoiding the trap of defining "right" or "wrong" decisions. There's only positive and negative consequences resulting from those decisions, and those can be direct or indirect. Individuals with black-and-white thinking (like many BPDers and OCPDers) may struggle to understand and apply this concept, and CBT helps re-train people to imagine and deal with the shades of gray. Many parents stay with inflexible "rules" throughout their kids' lives, instead of teaching them how to reach similar conclusions on their own once they become adolescents preparing to enter the adult world.

In terms of the way the brain works (per my "research" of over 2 years), I do not distinguish OCD from OCPD. The difference is in how a person having OC traits accepts or rejects or adapts the irrational anxieties into their life. The "diagnosis" helps the therapist determine means of treating the disorder by willingness of the patient to want to correct the mental and biological factors responsible for the OC traits.

realitycheque wrote:just because you haven't yet had a life experience that matches that of others such as your parents, that's when your decisions will more often result in negative consequences you didn't anticipate. Parents strive to help their kids prevent mistakes they (or people they know) made years before.

Well, I won't fly off into a rant about my 'mommy issues' here, but let it suffice to say my mother lived a restricted life and wasn't exactly the wisest of the elders when it came to lessons from mistakes.

realitycheque wrote:In terms of the way the brain works (per my "research" of over 2 years), I do not distinguish OCD from OCPD. The difference is in how a person having OC traits accepts or rejects or adapts the irrational anxieties into their life. The "diagnosis" helps the therapist determine means of treating the disorder by willingness of the patient to want to correct the mental and biological factors responsible for the OC traits.

I've been thinking that maybe my therapist simply opted for OCD because PD's are considered untreatable and so wouldn't be covered by my payment plan...but that's not so different from what you just said, is it?

Isn't there a type of ADD where you actually focus too much on certain things? That seems like an OCD type thing to me. You can also hyperfocus, so to me it's not too much of a surprise for these to coexist. I think ADD tends to be less orderly, whereas OCD tends to be neat..but I really think it can depend on the person......ADD people have obsessive thoughts right? I don't know if they have the compulsion side always,though. Maybe that's a difference.

Ah I need to go play games on pogo.