About this understanding others thing

Hello, I am 32, and I fit many of the symptoms of asperger's syndrome, but not being able to understand others feelings seems to be a key symptom, and I can sort of do this. What I mean is that if I am watching TV, or sometimes if I am just casually observing two people interact, I can read them like a book. I think. I can follow their little back and forth expressions, understand how they feel, and even be pretty sure what they are thinking. I mean in my mind when I am watching people like this I even feel pretty sure as to what type of events helped form them into their current configuration. But as soon as I become a participant in the interaction, its like all I have is their words, and I don't know anything about them. That is as good as I can put it into words, I think. But if I know myself at all, I will probably ponder this post for hours, and eventually figure out how to better describe what I mean. Although I should tend to my studies.

Interesting. I wonder if it's because in watching others converse, you are learning by the person's response to the other person as much as you are learning from the one speaking, so it's kind of a whole picture. Of course, most television programs lead you to where they want you to go and they want to appeal to a broad audience so they make it easy to follow. I think that's kind of true of myself, too, and I'm a huge people watcher. Part of it my be that when you're engaged in the conversation yourself, you're too nervous with the requirement to perform, to pay attention properly.

Oh yes I can relate to this. I've learned all my social functions by watching and copying, books, telly, you name it. This was interesting when I was growing up as I used to pick quite old fashioned books to practice from. I was well into the Enid Blyton and Jennings school stories. In school this did not always go down well! As far as real life goes speaking as part of a small group eg. in meetings is murder. I've got plenty to say and want to say it but it's like I can't see the conversations properly going back and forth and timing when I speak so I end up not saying anything. One thing I do though which helps is I try to cut off the visuals, say shut my eyes, cross them or look down or look through whoever I'm talking to.

I don't think it was always this way for me. My childhood memories are sparse, but I remeber one I was telling my wife a few months ago, before I learned of this asperger's syndrome. When I was like 8 or 9, my teacher called me to her desk and said 'I don't know what has been going on with you, but your grades are really going down hill.' I had no idea what the phrase meant, but it seemed like since downhill is always easier, and faster, that I might be doing the right thing, so I just smiled. Then she said ' Do you think this is something to smile about?' When I told her that I did she said 'just go sit down.' What made me remeber this now is that when I told my wife she was like 'duh, couldn't you tell from the way she was saying it that it wasn't a good thing?' Nope. I guess it wasn't untill I took a general psychology course a couple of semesters ago that I really started to think that I can read people in real life. I love my psychology book! So many good things, and learning that ALL anger comes from hurt for some reason was a big one for me.

I am becoming more confident that I have A.S., but there are a couple of other things I am wondering about. I remember, when I was young, having to conjure up expressions for emotions that I knew were appropriate, but didn't really feel. I can't remeber exactly, mainly some situations where I knew the polite thing to do would be to smile (like at a birthday party). I can't remember specific instances really. Also a certain shade of aqua used to leave a bad taste in the back of my throat (my mom didn't understand that at all). I don't think it does anymore, but I still cringe initially whenever I see any aqua. Or is that just me being wierd? Again,. thank you.

Hi again herbivore. That story about the grades going downhill is so typical of the problems we have especially as children, that I'm going to remember it and use as an example. (It's also pretty cute and funny. ) We also typically have problems discerning facial expressions and tones. I suppose that a non-Aspergers child would have not understood 'downhill' if they'd never heard it before but it's your use of your own logic to figure it out and your inability to discern the teacher's intent that makes it Aspergers.

The effort to respond appropriately as well, is a sign of Aspergers. I have learned a lot of social rules to the point where I can have almost automatic responses but often it will feel fake. A lot of Aspergers have problems with certain colors, smells, tastes, textures, touches, sounds, lights, as you do. Interesting about aqua leaving a bad taste in the back of your throat. I'm not sure if that would be hypersensitivity or synesthesia or a combination of both. There was a discussion on one of the forums once about pink and how some people just absolutely love it and how it makes some sick. I feel creeped out by certain regular visual patterns found in nature (wheras as a rule I love visual patterns).

Someone once told me that they thought my son probably had asperger syndrome because of his intense interest in Thomas Train. It was pretty exclusive. It went from Thomas Train (about the age of 3-4 or 5) to dinosaurs. After dinosaurs he got into sea creatures especially scary carnivorous animals. His conversational language was pretty low at the time. He tended(s) to be pretty literal...pretty academic. He's socially pretty clutzy.

He has problems with attention, he had a severe, undiagnosed vision impairment (far-sighted) until Kindergarten (hes' in 2nd grade now) and chronic ear infections for a year in his infancy before we finally had tubes put in.

I can see how someone might think he has Aspergers, but unlike you've described above, he's highly empathic. It bothers him when he thinks people are getting their feelings hurt. He's also easily embarrassed. He loves reading fiction and changing his voice to match the emtion of the various characters. He picks up on character intentions. He loves to play make believe.

I'm past needing a diagnosis because his prognosis seems good regardless of what he has, I'm simply less worried about him. But to those of you who have or know about Asperger Syndrome, does his empathy/theory of mind take him out of the Asperger department and put him somewhere else?

My gut tells me he's got ADHD combined with poor vision and hearing...I mean if you can't hear or see the stuff you're not paying attention to in the first place wouldn't that look like my kid?

The Social Ignorance that silenced Lindsey Cabour

By trent

Finally a social butterfly
Has allowed the radiance of her wings
To Be Reflected in my eye
I don’t have to rely
On confiding
The reasons that I cry
Day to Day
In an imagined replica
Of Her
She comforted me at lunch
Kissing my face
After the skinhead security guards
Punched it up
At night
Before I knew
The person that resided inside
Her external beauty
I thought her mood swings
Would fling back and fourth
Between happiness and blissfulness
Now, I see how when
A person confides in the other
Feelings smothered by other people’s
Perceptions go undiscovered.
The collar on her preppy blouse
Choked her speaker box
Made answering questions in class
A hassle
She told me the strapped heels
Made the soles of her
Feet decapitate
Plaid skirt made her an innocent girl.
She told me that her skirt itched so much
That she felt like she was having the same case
Of chicken pox she had at age six at age sixteen
The more innocent she looked
The more whorish she felt
She despised the lies that boys would
Devise to win her as a prize.
A prized possession
That could only be won
Through methods of
Extending the timeline
Of her adolescent innocence
And pretending
That she had no intelligence
The movie nerds
Said they wanted
To make her
Their Stepford Wife
And
That Life
Would Be A lot easier
With Stepford Daughters
Instead of bringing up
Business starters
And goal-setters
And Go-Getters.
Apparently most men
Only want women who
Are libido dispensers
Every guy besides me used to tell her
That they loved to hear her speeches
The truth was that they would sneer her intellect
They just wanted to pet the part of her body
That was below her ascension cross
Her beauty gave her a high ranking social status
But she lost all her friends who were outstanding
Speech and track competitors
For girls
Who thought
The more make-up
The more stuck-up
“The better chance
of enhancing my
future success
as an exotic or art film
actress.”
She told me that her self-esteem
Was folding faster than she was
To a glitzy form of conformity
She wanted me to see the actual
Tainting of the skin
Beneath the makeup
And to Counter
The magnetic force field
Between breast and testosterone
She told me to leave her
If I did deceive her
When I told her
That her intellect
Enhanced her beauty
I did not confide
In her
One More Lie


This poem was by a person who according to NTs cannot fathom others.

It's beautiful Trent, I love it!

On a different set of forums that mostly deals with social anxiety disorder I read often the subject of Asperger's comes up often when people are looking for alternatives for their social problems. One member there is a speech therapist at a school and particular job is speech therapy with children that have Autism and Asperger's Syndrome. In response to all the recent threads on the other forums in which other people asked questions that were way off base about the social issues related to Asperger's he posted these observations on the social issues found in Asperger's Syndrome:

Let me give you guys an example of what the "difficulties in social functioning" thing can look like. (These are just examples, not everyone manifests the same way)

- The teacher sarcastically remarks "Good job" and scowls, and you smile because you think that they were praising you.
- You speak to people two inches from their face because you don't understand the concept of personal space.
- Not understanding why people, especially children, would change the rules or make up games or stories as they go along.
- Going into fits of rage (and I mean RAGE) or almost catatonic, stubborn depression when your routine is broken.
- Abruptly ending your conversations with other people by saying things like, "I'm done talking to you."
- Misunderstanding idioms and analogies.
- Verbally insulting people if you feel stressed by them.
- Being oblivious to doing things that are seen as annoying to others (you'll notice this is the COMPLETE OPPOSITE of what is usually seen in SA)
- Talking about subjects without introducing them, e.g. you have been talking about the weather and your sentence verges midway into a discussion of why the Colts will win the Superbowl this year.
- Talking too fast so that people don't understand you, or talking too loud so that people end up covering their ears or trying to hush you. (This is a pretty big one I've noticed.)
- Not modifying the tone of your voice to match the mood of who you're speaking to. For example, if they're sad, you continue to speak in a happy voice, or vice versa.
- Perseverating on a topic or thought (you may mention the SAME thought to the same person multiple times without realizing that they already heard it and aren't interested in hearing it again).

....

Once you've worked in an autism cluster with the severe kids, and had one bite your forearm because you wanted to play a game they haven't tried before - that kind of sucks all the "coolness" out of having any type of PDD label. LOL By the way, long-sleeved shirts are good, very very good.

Catmil, I know what you mean to an extent. I mean one of the problems with the DSM criteria is that no one person completely fits all of the symptoms. Back when I was in sixth grade, I did not read verbal or non-verbal cues very well. But when my mother was hurt because nobody gave her a birthday present, not even her husband/my father (who I suspect of AS), I wrote her a poem about why she shouldn't go without a birthday present, and I let her know that I was upset that she was so hurt. All of my life I had a social concious. On Sunday mornings when I was in sixth grade, I'd daydream in my room, thinking about how if I were president of the US, I'd give back to the poor, turning ghettos into well-maintained neighborhoods.

I've always had an imagination. Even though I prefered non-fiction to fiction, I'd usually get As and Bs on creative writing assignments. I've been told I'm a talented writer and actor, even by the people who labeled me as having AS. In fact (and I don't mean to brag) I got a tuition award to my college for acting. When I would act, the intentions of the characters were easy for me to pick up on. It was the subtlety of how they expressed their intentions that was difficult for me to grasp. However, as I mature, I am overcoming this.

There were times where I did appear to be unempathic. I'd misinterpret social cues. I'd interrupt others when they were in the middle of a conversation. One time, when I was at a mass coaching session for speech team, I was way too honest in my criticism of this girl's radio speaking performance, showing my "lack of empathy". When the speech team coach made me apologize to her, I suddenly was able to realize that sometimes it's better to keep truths concealed if they are more painful to hear than falsehoods. I felt really bad about the comments that I made about that girl. I thought to myself how I felt when my judges for speech team gave me unconstructive criticism. Since I didn't know her that well, I couldn't really figure out exactly how badly my criticism hurt her, but then most people aren't mind readers.

Right after I'd do something that violated the hidden curriculum, I was very concerned about how my peers reacted to it. As I grew older, I learned to read social cues in general, though the subtle ones, they are slippery things to grasp for me. I increased my awareness of how other people's social expectations of me.
My psychologist in high school told me that when she became frusterated with the crosstalk and the name-calling that was going on in her group, she told me that I empathized with her, in that I understood why she was yelling at the group, not for the sake of punishining them, but to go to extremes to reinforce the tolerance that was lacking in the group members.

Catmil, I think that we are both hung up on labels. As time progresses we'll both get over this. Good luck with your son. He appears to have an inclination towards the dramatic arts. Have you thought about enrolling him in any classes?

Oh and about this understanding others thing

People in real life are alot more complex than characters in movies.

Take care
Trent