The official off-topic thread

Camelidae wrote:Question again. This time I actually looked into it myself, only briefly though. I´ve noticed that if I don´t sleep or eat for a couple of days, I get extremely hyperactive and excited. Also more prone to anxiety, but still.

Anyone know more about why this happens? Don´t get me wrong, it´s awesome and I´ve read about it being used in therapy once or twice a week to improve mood and drive in people with depression (minus the not eating though), but I´d be interested in knowing how it works and could not find much.

this is just my hypothesis, so it may be wrong.

depending on your diet, your diet can cause you to crash and become sleepy, energyless etc. Your body uses sugars/starches as it's main energy source because its the easiest to use(easier than fat). But the problem with carbs is that they aren't a steady energy supply unless you restocking it ever 2-3 hours (that's why people crash when they don't eat for like 4-6 hours. The 2PM feeling.). Meaning your eating a snack or meal every 2-3 hours to replenish the low carb levels (have you ever heard of marathon runners eating during runs?). If your body runs out of carbs to use for energy your body will convert to burning fat for energy.The first few days you don't eat your body is struggling to find energy(due to a lack of carbs) and in the process of converting over to burning fat for energy. For a little while, once you get converted over to fat energy, you will have a steady supply of energy due to your body being in a phase of burning your stored fat energy. But it won't be the energy high of carbs, it's a lower steady energy level. carbs are unsteady, fat is steady. This may work until you lose to much fat and start burning the fats around organs and will lead to some serious health issues then you will lose your steady energy supply and start to have those health problems.

any confusion of my wording on that paragraph let me know and I'll try to rephrase it better.

as far as not sleeping making you hyperactive and excited, I'm not sure. If I go more than 24 hours without sleep I don't function. I've gone up to 72 hours without sleep and food and I was essentially a zombie with minor hallucinations. I never became hyperactive nor excited. I became energyless, didn't want to move, hallucinated minorly, mentally dull( I couldn't think to save my life, I couldn't follow anything, I couldn't remember anything).

So I can understand the not eating thing how it may make you hyperactive after a few, but the no sleeping I don't understand nor can I even speculate.

zausel wrote:sugars/starches

Can you say that in food? What foods contain starch for example? I really don´t know anything about food.

carbs

You explained that one before. Still:

they aren't a steady energy supply unless you restocking it ever 2-3 hours

Why?

The 2PM feeling.

Never heard of that term.

have you ever heard of marathon runners eating during runs?

Rhetorical question? Anyway, no I haven´t. Does not sound healthy though, chewing things right and stuff.

The first few days you don't eat your body is struggling to find energy(due to a lack of carbs) and in the process of converting over to burning fat for energy. For a little while, once you get converted over to fat energy, you will have a steady supply of energy due to your body being in a phase of burning your stored fat energy.

How about fasting (is it that the word?)? I´ve heard that you feel rather low in the beginning but get increasingly balanced and energetic.

any confusion of my wording on that paragraph let me know and I'll try to rephrase it better.

minor hallucinations

Fascinating, what sort of hallucinations?

I never became hyperactive nor excited. I became energyless, didn't want to move, hallucinated minorly, mentally dull( I couldn't think to save my life, I couldn't follow anything, I couldn't remember anything).

I get that too. I don´t know how to control in which way I will react yet. I think I´ll just experiment a bit.

So I can understand the not eating thing how it may make you hyperactive after a few, but the no sleeping I don't understand nor can I even speculate.

Ok, thank you.

Do you know how long it takes to get SSRIs out of your system? Wikipedia says about 20+ hours if I remember correctly, but I somehow doubt it´d be the same for long-term use (in comparison to using it once).

edit. In my case that´d be sertraline.

Camelidae wrote:

zausel wrote:sugars/starches

Can you say that in food? What foods contain starch for example? I really don´t know anything about food.

carbs

You explained that one before. Still:

they aren't a steady energy supply unless you restocking it ever 2-3 hours

Why?

The 2PM feeling.

Never heard of that term.

have you ever heard of marathon runners eating during runs?

Rhetorical question? Anyway, no I haven´t. Does not sound healthy though, chewing things right and stuff.

The first few days you don't eat your body is struggling to find energy(due to a lack of carbs) and in the process of converting over to burning fat for energy. For a little while, once you get converted over to fat energy, you will have a steady supply of energy due to your body being in a phase of burning your stored fat energy.

How about fasting (is it that the word?)? I´ve heard that you feel rather low in the beginning but get increasingly balanced and energetic.

any confusion of my wording on that paragraph let me know and I'll try to rephrase it better.

minor hallucinations

Fascinating, what sort of hallucinations?

I never became hyperactive nor excited. I became energyless, didn't want to move, hallucinated minorly, mentally dull( I couldn't think to save my life, I couldn't follow anything, I couldn't remember anything).

I get that too. I don´t know how to control in which way I will react yet. I think I´ll just experiment a bit.

So I can understand the not eating thing how it may make you hyperactive after a few, but the no sleeping I don't understand nor can I even speculate.

Ok, thank you.

Do you know how long it takes to get SSRIs out of your system? Wikipedia says about 20+ hours if I remember correctly, but I somehow doubt it´d be the same for long-term use (in comparison to using it once).

edit. In my case that´d be sertraline.

carbohydrates come in either simple or complex forms. simple carbs are sugars, complex carbs are starches. The main difference is that sugars break down quickly and give more of a "rush"(sugar rush), while complex are slower and last longer. eat a bunch of sugar and you will have a lot of energy(a burst almost) for a short period of time followed by a crash(The 2PM feeling, get tired etc). Eat a bunch of whole grains and you'll have a sustained energy level for a bit longer than sugar. Normally isn't followed by a crash because the energy level isn't as high as sugars so you don't fall as much. it's like falling from a 20 ft cliff vs a 50 ft cliff with a parachute.

whole grains, potatoes give complex carbs(the main sources). Anything that has sugar in it has simple carbs.

"2PM feeling" just means the crash followed by a sugar high.

This is the part I may get messed up. If anyone can correct me, please do. If you run for more than an hour you deplete all the glycogen stored in your muscles, blood and liver(?). glucose is what carbs get broken down into(refer to the above paragraph to fgure out the difference in simple and complex in this process). glucose is a monosaccharide(simple sugar) that gets stored in the liver. the liver has enyzmes that put these glucose together to create glycogen, a polysaccharide(a chain of simple sugars). glycogen is soluble in the blood while( I may be wrong on this) glucose is only soluble in the liver, so glycogen gets stored in the blood and muscles. When needed, the body breaks the glycogen back down into glucose to be used as energy. glucose is energy, glycogen is stored energy. So right now you have a storage of glycogen in your blood and muscles so that your body has energy to move when needed. Your body only stores enough glycogen in the muscles and blood for roughly an hour of good exercise. So around the one hour point of a marathon, the runners run out of glycogen and their body starts to search for a energy source. This energy source is fat. Not sure if you've heard of the "wall" in running terms, but it's the period at which you run out of glycogen/glucose, and your body is making the adjustment to burn fat. This period involves severe tiredness and weakness(this is where most first time marthoners quit). If you make it through that period, the fat gets broken down and you have a newenergy supply, your energy comes back, the weakness goes away, and you can usually pick the pace back up. A lot of marathon runners run with an energy bar in their pocket( consist mostly of simple carbs(sugar, alot of sugar), around the one hour period they eat it, and since exercise increases the metabolism, the sugars get broken down quite fast, and they have an extended period of glycogen energy so they don't feel the "wall(the tiredness and weakness) as much while the body converts to burning fat.

ya. during fasting, for the first 24 or so hours, you feel fine because you have stored glycogen already. When your body runs out of glycogen(because your not replenishing it), your body has to transfer over to burning stored fat for energy. This process isn't instant, it takes a little while. So you feel sluggish, tired and weak while your body does the convertion process. Once your body fully adjusts to burning the fat instead of glycogen, you have a steady supply of energy, so your energy returns and you feel fine. The problem comes in when you fast for to long, and you get low on fat and you start burning the fat around organs. Burn the fat around organs and you will develop some serious health issues.

your body wants glycogen, its its number one energy source. extra fat (around the waist, legs, arms, neck) is the second energy source. fat around organs(liver, heart, stomach, kidneys etc) is third. Your body will automatically burn glycogen before it burns fat primarily.

extra tid bit. your body has a sort of formula for energy. at first its like 95% glycogen 5% fat. slowly you burn less glycogen, and more fat the more you are active. Around the 1 hour period, your burning 51%+ fat, 49% or less glycogen, and this is the period your body gets tired so it can switch over to primarily burning fat, until you eventually run out of glycogen and your running fully on fat. This is a means of conserving glycogen to make it last as long as it can get it to. Quite fascinating stuff really.

lets see, i was seeing stuff that wasn't there. shadows, fast moving objects in peripheral( like a cat running out of the room but theres no cat, a bug crawling on the wall etc). Eventually you will have full blown delirium hallucinations if you keep not sleeping. Having conversations with people who aren't there, they talk back to you, and legitimately seeing people who aren't there. Like you feel you could touch them they seem so real. To you, it seems as if they are legimately, actually there. You could sit a REAL person there, and I couldn't tell you the difference in the hallucination and the real person. I fell asleep at the beginning of having convos with nonexistent people. A real friend walked in on me facing a chair, having a conversation with it. both quotes are me: " Ya want to go for a walk?" "umm, sure, ya I'll go on a walk with ya, let me grab my jacket" is what my friend heard. He said something, the hallucination disappeared, i couldn't tell if he was real or not, he told me I needed to go to sleep and I fell asleep. Woke up 36 hours later. I woke up feeling like I had drank an entire keg. I felt like $#%^. I would honestly say just get some sleep, its not fun at that point.

SSRI I couldn't imagine taking more than 3-7 days, could be less. The only substance I know of that takes more than 5 days to get out of your system is marijuana. ok, SSRIs work on the half-life system. This means that if your SSRI has a half life of 30 hours, half the ssri is out of your system in 30 hours, half that half leaves in another 30 hours, half that half leaves in another 30 hours. With long term use the main concern is that when the half-time hits you lose so much of the SSRI so quickly, it can create some problems. increased depression, suicidal thoughts, anxiety. Your body/mind is essentially shocked by the sudden decrease in the SSRI. Thats why your told to get tappered off SSRIs if you want to quit.

zausel wrote:A lot of marathon runners run with an energy bar in their pocket( consist mostly of simple carbs(sugar, alot of sugar), around the one hour period they eat it,

Do they stop to eat or eat while running?

The problem comes in when you fast for to long, and you get low on fat and you start burning the fat around organs. Burn the fat around organs and you will develop some serious health issues.

Why? What is the fat around organs good for?

Quite fascinating stuff really.

Absolutely.

*hallucinations*

Was this while on drugs? Sounds similiar to what you said about some drug you took that made you see people too (DPH or something? Is that the name?).

I woke up feeling like I had drank an entire keg.

How does a hangover happen?

I felt like $#%^. I would honestly say just get some sleep, its not fun at that point.

I will sleep tonight and slept for five hours last night so it´s fine.

With long term use the main concern is that when the half-time hits you lose so much of the SSRI so quickly, it can create some problems. increased depression, suicidal thoughts, anxiety.

I got these while still taking the meds. The first two weeks or so (from day one actually, even though it sounds exaggerated) they sent me through the roof energy and mood wise. After that, they lost their effect on me until the side effects were the only thing left.

Camelidae wrote:

zausel wrote:A lot of marathon runners run with an energy bar in their pocket( consist mostly of simple carbs(sugar, alot of sugar), around the one hour period they eat it,

Do they stop to eat or eat while running?

The problem comes in when you fast for to long, and you get low on fat and you start burning the fat around organs. Burn the fat around organs and you will develop some serious health issues.

Why? What is the fat around organs good for?

Quite fascinating stuff really.

Absolutely.

*hallucinations*

Was this while on drugs? Sounds similiar to what you said about some drug you took that made you see people too (DPH or something? Is that the name?).

I woke up feeling like I had drank an entire keg.

How does a hangover happen?

I felt like $#%^. I would honestly say just get some sleep, its not fun at that point.

I will sleep tonight and slept for five hours last night so it´s fine.

With long term use the main concern is that when the half-time hits you lose so much of the SSRI so quickly, it can create some problems. increased depression, suicidal thoughts, anxiety.

I got these while still taking the meds. The first two weeks or so (from day one actually, even though it sounds exaggerated) they sent me through the roof energy and mood wise. After that, they lost their effect on me until the side effects were the only thing left.

eat it while running. Can't afford to take a seat and enjoy your energy bar on a clock.

ok, scratch that, I made a mistake. I had to look this part up, and come to find out I had this part wrong. Fat around the organs(except the heart) is actually very bad for you. So likely you shouldn't have it anyway. Ok, once you run low on fat around the waist, arms, hips, belly, legs you start to burn number 4 on the list, but is know number 3, muscle. The muscle burning is where it gets bad for your body, your now breaking your own body down to keep your organs functioning. But likely during the fat burning phase you won;t be feeling all that well either due to mineral/vitamin/nutrient deficiency.

The hallucinations werent while I was on anything. The only reason I stayed up for 3 days was the result of amphetamine use though, but they had left my system by the time the hallucinations started. Used amphetamine for 2 1/2 days,stopped taking them for half a day to complete the third day til I fell asleep. I honestly don't think its possible for most people to naturally stay up that long without some kind of sleeping disorder. I can only last about 24-36 hours before I start to nod off while sitting up. I feel like staying up naturally for 3+ days would take some practice. I got a feeling you may/could fall asleep standing up around 36-60 hours. But supposedly you can make it ~14 days before you will die. Chances are you will fall asleep within 2-5 days though without practice or being in a war zone.

I think hangovers are a result of dehydration. I don't get hangovers frequently, only had like 3 in my life, so I'm not entirely sure of the what/how/why on hangovers. Never had a need to look into it.

You may have been becoming "numb" to the effects. Your body is so used to how they make you feel, that it is now your reality, base level of consciousness so you don't notice the effects. It's essentially your equilibrium now. Kinda like how at first glasses drove me crazy, but now I forget I even wear them type of thing. You could also be doing a mental placebo effect, expect X, you receive Z, so you thing it isn't working. Kinda like a tolerance type of thing. I drink 15 beers, I get hammered and I feel hammered. a few months later I drink 15 beers I get hammered, but I don't feel hammered. Sorry, the only example I could think of .I'm only speculating on this part. So keep that in mind.

No problem about the examples you used or mixing up. Thanks for trying to answer so many questions at all.

Friend´s party was ok. I was bored half the time, but it was ok and had its enjoyable moments. So proud I went and especially stayed there (as I have a habit of either not showing up or leaving early, like with school and everything else basically). I like pina colada now. Walking home in the grey of dawn was the coolest thing, no one on the streets at all, everything frozen. Wow, the town I live in is really pretty, never really paid attention to it, but I guess it is. My fingers went purple, lol. Finally tired. I totally needed to write it down just now.

Camelidae wrote:Friend´s party was ok. I was bored half the time, but it was ok and had its enjoyable moments. So proud I went and especially stayed there (as I have a habit of either not showing up or leaving early, like with school and everything else basically). I like pina colada now. Walking home in the grey of dawn was the coolest thing, no one on the streets at all, everything frozen. Wow, the town I live in is really pretty, never really paid attention to it, but I guess it is. My fingers went purple, lol. Finally tired. I totally needed to write it down just now.

neat stuff. good to hear. pina colada or virgin pina colada?

Ya it was always neat walking around from like 4-9AM. Could never put my finger on why though. just seemed really, serene watching the city wake up.

zausel wrote:neat stuff. good to hear. pina colada or virgin pina colada?

I have no idea. A friend just handed me a glass with some stuff in it and I tried it. I probably only liked it because you don´t notice the alcohol in it as much. Where´s the difference?

Ya it was always neat walking around from like 4-9AM. Could never put my finger on why though. just seemed really, serene watching the city wake up.

Yeah. There´s a castle in our town, lots of old buildings and narrow side streets. I wish I could have taken photos or something. I should probably go out more often just so I can walk home in the morning.

Camelidae wrote:

373 wrote:(...) Anyway, it turns out she's got a boyfriend now around the same time we stopped talking, am I right in thinking this is probably why? And that she doesn't want to talk to me anymore?

I don´t necessarily think she does not *want* to talk to you anymore, but I do think that having a boyfriend now may take up some of her time now. One of my better friends got one in summer and she went from having time and being open to talk to always being busy and constantly checking for text messages during conversation. Now that they´re a couple for about 6 months it´s gotten less obsessive though.

In instances like this, when I'm in doubt, I'll just not talk to them anymore.
(Rather than ask them or try and talk or whatever.)

But I suppose I've just been thinking that I could be coming across as not talking to her because she's got a boyfriend... Which isn't the case.

Is there a chance of you asking her about it? Just so you don´t have to guess and can relaxe instead? Plus, from what I´ve read, it does not seem like she would even notice that you are not talking to her much these days since that´s exactly what you said she was doing.

Thanks Camildae.

I just left it, but she messaged me the other day saying hello and that she had just had her last exam, when I posted this post I thought she said she'd already had her last exam, so maybe I just misunderstood.

Before hearing about AS etc I would have checked back what she said and pointed it out to her if she did say that she'd already had it, but since I've realised that's probably not a good tactic in building a friendship, so I didn't bother haha.

I had to go offline though pretty much straight away and haven't spoken to her since, even though she's produced a reason why we haven't spoken I don't feel like I want to talk to her as much as I did.