do i have AS?

my name is mike. i work with the developmenatlly disabled as well as people with PDD's. i have worked at 2 different companies totaling at 18 months in the field (i am no expert).

several people i currently work with and people i have worked with in the past have brought to my attention the fact that i display many 'symtpoms' of aspergers syndrome or mild autism. i have read a couple books so far and i have more on the way from amazon.com.

the symptoms that i have are as follows - (is symptoms the correct terminology?)

i pinch the ends of my fingers, to the point of pain (its relieving)

i hate social occasions, if there is more than 4-5 people i have to leave. even if the people present are my friends and family, there is to much going on for me to handle.

i rock back and forth during class or in meetings at work. i shake my legs back and forth as well.

i am very "one-track" minded. i am obsessive about the mind and how it works, thats all i talk about and i know i bore my friends (thankfully my girlfriend is tolerant of me). if a topic interests me i will research it until my close friends grow weary of hearing about it.

i have a routine for everything (even the shower) i had not had many of my routines interrupted until my girlfriend starting living with me, now my routine changes almost every day and i dont know how to explain it to her because i cant explain why i get upset when i cant shower the same way every day or do the same things everyday.

i didnt speak until the age of 3. thereafter, my parents informed me i used age appropriate sentences and language, but not that of your typical toddler.

i have a facination with vocabulary and numbers. i love words and the way they sound. i love numbers and patterns in numbers. i can write down every single phone number i know from memory without being wrong once. i dont know why, i like the numbers. it is over 100 phone numbers, all different and from different states. i am also told i have an 'expansive vocabulary' and i 'use alot of big words'

i do not undertand social chitchat. i dont agree with talking to a person standing in line with me at the checkout. it is pointless and when people try to talk to me it usually ends with me 'being rude' and quickly walking away. i get confused to easily when someone i am not familiar to me is trying to engage in conversation, sometimes it sounds as if the person in front of me was speaking a foreign language. if i can tolerate talking to a stranger most of the conversation is 'auto-pilot' for me. sentences and phrases i have memorized so i can endure talking to people.

i dont understand facial expressions or body language, to an
extent i can figure it out, but with strangers i am lost. i practiced my own facial expressions to try and determine what i looked like, so i could have 'auto-responses' that are appropriate for the conversations that i will possibly engage in.

i hate talking on the phone. i dont know when its my turn to talk or when to end the conversation. so i limit myself to 60 sec on the phone usually when my 'time is up' i will desperatly find a way to end the phone conversation (even with my girlfriend)

i feel alone. even though my friends and family are close, even if they are in the room with me, i still feel alone.

when i go to the grocery store or even go out for coffee, i have a pre-determined list of things to do or get. i have my 'routine' for going out for coffee memorized. i remember someone tried to talk to me when i was on the way into the coffeeshop and distracted me. i forgot what i was doing, i panicked and went back to my car and had to sit for a few minutes to collect my thoughts.

i started a journal, and wrote down my behaviour and tried to determine why i do some of the things i do. i am writing it entirely in longhand, its more satisfying this way. it contains lists of my beahviour as well as DSM4 specifications. as well as excerpts from the books i am reading. i guess you could call it a reference guide to my mind.

i took the Autism Quotient from wire.com. both of my parents scored a 30, my younger brother a 27 and i scored a 46. i know it doesnt provide a diagnosis, but it did make me think even more.

i have talked to my Dr about it and he said that he really didnt know much about AS or Autism. so i contacted the Austism Society of Maine and they are sending me information and locations or psyschologists to talk to.

i just want to know, am i more like my clients at work than i realized? is there help for people like me that can relate to what i have just written? is there testing to find out whether or not a person has AS? if so where do i go? why do i feel so much different than the neurotypicals around me?

-mike

as you can tell my grammar is aweful

Your grammar isn't really awful. It's not perfect, but then again very few people actually use proper grammar. To a certain extent, attempting to write or speak using flawless grammar can actually be counterproductive when trying to communicate (particularly when the content is emotive).

I would say that your use of grammar is accurate enough to make yourself plainly understood without being so precise that it seems sanitized. The only thing you do that lights up my grammar/spelling nazi hackles is the lack of capitalization of the pronoun "I" and the first word in a sentence. But that's my pet peeve and as such doesn't really warrant being forced on anyone else. I only bring it up because it's vaguely on topic.

As far as the main topic goes, you and I have a lot in common. There's some variation in out "ticks" or whatever the current buzzword is - I don't pinch my fingers but I have other things I do, etc. I'm pretty good at reading expressions and body language, but that's just because I've studied it a great deal. I find most kinds of small talk exceedingly tedious because it serves no apparant purpose. I've got practiced responses so that I can avoid being obnoxiously rude, but for the most part I would much rather simply avoid any conversation that is without redeeming virtue. Stuff like "how's it going", "fine", "nice weather", "looks like rain", it's just people making noises because they feel uncomfortable with silence. They want to acknowledge each other but can't think of anything to say. I don't want to open my mouth unless I've got something to say (but then again, I rarely find myself without something to say - yet another of my off-putting qualities).

As far as the specific questions you ask at the end go, I'm afraid I can't offer too much help. I've had endless difficulties finding any mental health professional that would even entertain the notion of determining whether or not I (as an adult) have Asperger's Syndrome.

To your first question, "am I more like my clients at work than I realized?" I would say yes. I would further clarify that by saying that everyone is more alike than they'd like to believe. At the very center of who we are, almost everyone is very, very similar. It's the translations of information going in and coming out that can vary widely. But that's my opinion, not necessarily a capital t "Truth".

You ask if there's help for people like you - I would answer that with the question, "What kind of help do you desire?" If you want help being "cured" I would be inclined to say you should prepare for disappointment. There's lots of help to be had, but from what I've seen the realistic expectations are to become better able to relate to those who are different, to understand and accept who you are, and things like that. It links in with your last question, "why do I feel so much different than the neurotypicals around me?" That's two-fold. First off, everyone feels seperate from everyone around them to some degree. No one really knows with any certainty what's going on in someone else's mind or if they're sincere in their outward behavior. So everyone has doubts and feels isolation. But in the case of people with Asperger's, a not insignificant part of feeling different is due to being different. It's not being broken, it's not being "wrong", it's just being different.

It's infinitely easier to adapt, to adjust your perceptions and actions to simultaneously make use of and "correct" your differences once you begin to understand them. But my advice is to not seek to change your differences - just learn how to organize them in a way that works for you rather than against you. You can learn to adapt to "normal" behavior well enough that casual acquaintances would never guess there's anything different about you, but you'll need to develop communication and understanding with anyone that you expect to spend a lot of time around. (And that goes both ways - they need to understand your differences, but you also need to understand theirs.) This isn't just true of Aspie/Neurotypical friendships - it's true of all relationships. But in our circumstances the communication isn't as innate. More effort is required because it's like each party speaks a subtlely different language and a system of understanding must be developed.


Anyway, I wish you the best of luck in tracking down what you need, and if you come across anything helpful let the rest of us know. The only doctors I can find within a couple hundred miles that are willing to even sit down with me and discuss whether or not I might have AS charge hourly rates roughly comparable to the monthy payment of a nice family sedan. And to be quite honest, if I had that kind of money to spend on a psychiatrist (or a health care plan that covered it), I wouldn't really need to see one in the first place.

Thankfully the company I work for has excellent benefits. I pay $35 per week and it is a 90% co-pay. Included is a list of psychiatrists that accept Anthem Insurance. I dont know the cost or if the 90% co-pay applies to psychiatry, however, I am currently looking into it and plan to discuss this with my manager next work week.

I too dont usually speak unless a question is directed at me. In all truth it took me awhile to even want to post on this web site. I am glad I did in retrospect. It has been helpful to a degree, at this point any information or help is greatly appreciated on my behalf. When I first discovered this site I was skeptical about posting anything, thinking I would be wasting my time or wasting someone else's time with my neurosis.

I have been told by everyone I know that I am 'different' (people i work with call me 'the strange guy'. My parents said it was 'just who I am'. I agree that it is 'who i am', but why am I this way?

My biggest problems are social contact (my job does not require social interaction other than 1 other staff and 2 clients). I dont know when to speak, or break off conversation and most of all I dont enjoy 'small talk'. I am constantly told I should attempt to make more eye contact. Why make eye contact when I dont see it as a beneficial part of a conversation? Peoples words are more important to me. Facial reactions and tone change confuse me more often than not (even with friends and family it is difficult to determine what their facial expressions mean sometimes).

I have been searching for reasons and answers for a couple years now. It seems that in the last 6 months I have actually found and received answers.

I will make two posts. One in response to your questions about specific behaviors of yours. The next will be more generalized.

Pinching your fingers, rocking back and forth, routines:
They could all be due to anxiety. Now, that said, there are reasons why one has anxiety. Autistic people (aspies included) generally have an anixety problem. Too deep to go into specific reasons but it's mainly about not being comfortable around people and not being comfortable/at peace with oneself.

You probably hate social occasions because you suck at them. Join the aspies' club.

One track mind, vocabulary, numbers sound like AS.

You do not understand social chitchat so you deem it pointless. You feel alone even with people around. Talking on the phone is torture unless you let go and create a negative impression. All sound aspie.
BTW: If you watch "32 Short Films About Glenn Gould", you can probably see what would happen if you did not worry too much about the impression you create on the phone. G.G. bores the heck out of his friends but they know and tolerate him. So it's OK.

Facial expressions, body language. You can learn how to read these by genuinely paying attention. That is, devoting a chunk of your mind at all times, consciously and unconsciously by wanting to learn. After a while, you'll get better.
If you have to learn this, you are most likely an aspie.

Journal is a good idea. I've been keeping journals for the past 4.5 years. What I noticed in myself is that after a while I learned to be honest with myself about myself and this opened doors to further understanding.

Now, all that said, about doctors and other professionals.

I've had three therapists over the course of four years.
I have not been fortunate in my experiences.
In my opinion, if a therapist says he/she knows about AS, this is not enough for them to be helpful. The reason is that many problems we aspies experience are due to reasons different than those of neurotypicals (NTs) and the way an aspie should go about fixing them is also very different than that of an NT.
If the help does not possess a thorough and working knowledge of AS with experience in treatment of behavioral problems, much time will be wasted.

From the many books I've read, behavioral/cognitive approach is useful, psychoanalysis is not so useful. There will always be things a high functioning aspie can learn by psychoanalysis but that is just one slice of the pie.
Besides, psychoanalysis is all about insight into one's own self. This is precisely what an aspie lacks, so digging for gold where there is none is futile until a thorough understanding of other aspects of the psyche is achieved.

My experiences with therapists have been a completely waste of time as far as helping me with AS. I learned all I learned by reading.
However, I do admit getting some help (some, with maybe 10% efficiency and much money blown) to understand other issues, such as anxiety etc.

Now, back to your social issues.
Eye contact is necessary. I learned this past 30. Now, I have no problems with it, as long as I remember to do it, and sometimes I forget. Do not fight this issue.

Other problems, I have plenty of, same as you. They only way some of them became less, making life easier has been through learning. And learning requires constantly paying attention. Paying attention requires genuinely wanting to pay attention.

You have to decide if you want to be angry at the world and feel sorry for yourself because you have to work (much) harder at something that comes naturally to most people. Or you have to decide to accept the fact that you have a problem, and take steps to make life easier for yourself (through much effort and painful frustration).

It's like being someplace where everyone speaks this foreign language with weird gestures. I know people who decide to live in the US and do not bother learning the language and customs. They think everyone else should accommodate them.
Then I know others who acknowledge they know nothing when they come here, make the effort to learn and get by just fine.
That's what I mean when I say you have to want to learn.

First, stop feeling sorry for yourself. The easiest way to do this is to decide to take action and then immediately to take action.
Go rent a movie and watch it over and over again until you understand why the actors made each and every gesture and why they said each line when they said it and how they said it. Believe me, this works. Same when you're around people, but this is of course, harder, since there is no pause and rewind.

Does your girlfriend know you may be an aspie? Ask her to help you learn. I bet she's gonna learn a thing or two herself.

Or, don't.

First off, I'd personally recommend against discussing A.S. with your manager. For starters you're not formally diagnosed yet, and very few people outside our little community take self-diagnosis very seriously. (Aspies seem to be more tolerant, mainly because adult diagnosis is such a gigantic pain in the backside.) Also, it's a lot easier to approach him once you have the diagnosis and say something along the lines of, "well I went to see this guy because I was having trouble in my relationship and it turns out I have Asperger's."

Many people tend to be a little prejudicial about "mental illness", so whenever possible I would recommend not waving the A.S. flag until you're officially diagnosed. (Incidentally, then it works the other way and can keep you from being discriminated against.)

You asked why it is that you (we) are this way. The short answer is that no one really knows. There's literally dozens if not hundreds of theories ranging from simple genetics to mercury poisoning. Functionally the Asperger's brain actually works just a little bit differently than a neurotypicals (hence the label we turned around and gave the label-givers). I've read a lot of stuff about it, but I can't personally vouch for it's accuracy, so take the following with a grain of salt.

Our brain's wiring that is supposed to be hooked up to the regions responsible for interpreting social data is plugged into other areas that aren't connected in a neurotypical's brain. So it's more of an "alternate ability" than a disability.
The part of the brain normally used to process facial features and expressions is not utilized in the Aspie brain. That information is instead processed by the part of the visual cortex responsible for processing all other shapes and features. Thus the human face is given exactly the same treatment and priority as a basketball.

So it's easy to see given that information why we Aspies have a bit more difficulty reading expressions and remembering which ones mean what emotion, and even remembering what people look like without a great deal of familiarity with them. I can tell which basketball is mine when it's in a big pile of other basketballs, but only if I've had it long enough that I'm thoroughly familiar with it. By the same token I have tremendous difficulty putting names to faces and vice versa until I've been exposed to someone numerous times over a long period of time.

Eye contact is very important for neurotypicals. It's almost like the backbone of their social interaction. For them, speaking without looking at someone is the cue to say you're talking to yourself. They don't know if they should be listening or trying to ignore you for the sake of privacy. It also is the cue that you're listening to what they say. If you're not looking at them they feel like you're ignoring them. The more you look at someone when you're talking or they're talking, the greater you're indicating your interest in the subject (or individual). You want to look at the other person's face no less than one third of the time, and usually no more than half. Your face should remained turned in their general direction, but your eyes should glance away every few seconds so that you're not staring at them. It takes a bit of practice but this is definitely one of the easiest habits to learn. Staring too much indicated boredom, disinterest, or outright rudeness. Staring too much will make people very uncomfortable and frightened - only crazy people stare.

As far as not being able to determine when a conversation should end, what your role in it is, and so on, my advice would be to find ways to allow you to just ask. At work you have a ready-made excuse - work. "Okay, and did you need anything else or should I get started on the next task?" or words to that effect. This does two things - it asks the question you need answered in a polite way that makes it easy for the neurotypical to give you an answer (they absolutely abhor talking about "the rules" of social interaction). It also has the extra benefit of making you look more like a good-worker. You're saying on the one hand that you're happy to continue the conversation if they need to tell you something else, but that if they don't you have work to do. The biggest potential pitfall here is if you manage to use the wrong voice inflection. If you sound like you're being critical or flippant they'll take it an entirely different way (assuming that you're implying they're wasting your time when you have vastly more important things to do than talk to them).

My personal recipe for that statement would be a happy, friendly voice tone, a good-natured "natural" smile (not a big doofy grin or anything), and maybe a little eye sparkle. That last one can be a little tough. It's not actually a reflected light or anything, it's just a quality that makes your eyes "light up". You'll probably have to employ the help of a mirror and a neurotypical - get the normal person to tell you when you've done it, try to get a look at yourself in the mirror so you can see what it looks like, and then practice doing it on cue.

In fact, that particular combination of social cues can help to ensure that none of your statements get taken out of context. It's not foolproof, but it helps.

In general though, I'd just recommend you ask blunt questions about things you don't understand. Try to avoid being curt - try to stick with a more "humble honesty" tone. Don't ask "are we done?" to find out if you should end a conversation because someone will invariably take it the wrong way. Maybe ask "should I shut up and let you get back to whatever you were doing?" That shows a certain sense of humor at your own expense. If you don't understand an expression or gesture, consider asking them.

You can figure things out without asking questions, but the questions make it a lot easier. They answers might not always be honest, but they will start to help. (If nothing else it will begin to drive home the fact that there is a bit of a language gap between you and them.)

I am going to attempt to respond to the previous posts all in one.

My manager is actually one of the people who pointed out that I display many signs of AS, him and my trainging co-ordinator at work. Both people have been in the mental health field for 20+ years. I am concerned because I work for a company that services people with PDD's and DD's and some people I work with already treat me as an 'oddball' enough as it is. I dont really want to give anyone any reasons to make it harder for me. (confidentiality is a lost cause there, they posted in the meeting notes that all staff can see, that I would be out of work due to the death of my grandfather earlier this year)

I do suck at social situations, I either laugh at the wrong time or dont look the person in the eyes that I am talking to. Alot of the time I wont even respond, because the person made a statement and didnt ask a question, resulting in me thinking I didnt need to respond. I guess I am wrong about that. Do NT's want a response regardless, even if the words spoken are in statement form or question?

90% of my social interaction is with my family, my girlfriend and 5 friends I have outside of my home. My friends have 'gotten used' to my odd behavior. Thankfully I come from a fairly sarcastic family (very dry humor), this in essence has helped me somewhat in social situations, due to me being able to make a quick joke about myself if I think I may have offended someone or confused them. (this happens alot, I am also told I have an 'odd sense of humor')

I have talked to my girlfriend about it, she so far has been very understanding. She usually is very quick to notice when I am un-easy or anxious and asks me if I want to leave or if I am ok. She also reminds me not to burp, fart and pick my nose in public. (yes, its horrible, but I never think about it) The only thing she is not fully understanding of is my routines. I may have to adjust them...but that would be torture. I have done the same things the same way for as long as I can remeber. How do I change them now? or discuss this without offending her?

The thought of me being sorry for myself had never occured to me. I have never looked at my situation in that perspective. I suppose it is difficult to 'step oustide yourself' and examine ones own behavior. It is nice to hear other peoples perspectives.

I have been told many times I am 'to blunt' or rude. I never thought of some of the statements I have made as rude. To me it was factual information. I usually dont mean to me negative or condescending, but I can see how people would interperet me that way.

I dont change my vocal tone all to often, I dont make alot of facial expressions and body language is almost like a foreign language to me. I never know what to do with my hands when talking to people, most of the time I find something to play with or pinch the ends of my fingers (that gets me some strange looks).

I beleive what may have been a factor in me not developing proper social etiquette was that I was homeschooled from the 4th grade straight through high school. I took night classes to graduate highschool, but having to be in a classroom with other people was aweful. I dont know what I am going to do in college. I do know that there is some books about 'surviving college' specifically for people with AS. Would these help? or is college a cesspool of confusing people and actions regardless?

Does anyone have any good suggestions for books to purchase? I have done alot of research on-line, but it is difficult for me to read constantly on a computer, I like to have a book in front of me. Usually I print out everything I want to read and involve it in my journal.

http://www.autismandcomputing.org.uk/marc2.htm

This link contains mucho useful info, was written by an aspie, for aspies of a wide spectrum of functioning. Might help pick up a thing or two.

Telling your manager will help with your current work environment. Helping yourself will be useful for life. That's my take on it, unless you're suffering real bad at work, which, from your posts, it does not seem like.

Odd sense of humor... why does that remind me of myself?

As far as feeling sorry for yourself... You might or you might not (although I would not believe if you said never). Make sure it does not go to extremes, like the guy who wrote the guide mentioned above. He is my champion and the one story I will not ever forget to remind myself of when I'm in despair.

Blunt, rude. Are you an aspie? The infuriating thing is that people assume we aspies do these on purpose. That we're cruel and like putting down or hurting others. I never overcame this.

For vocal tone, for facial expressions, for eye contact... Again, watching actors (not dressed as martians, of course) helps. Aspies learn by patterns. Once you learn a pattern through repeated observation, you can apply that particular pattern to a multitude of situations. The more patterns you learn, the more you can understand people. Perseverance is the key. Commit to this, and you'll reap the benefits in the long term.

For books:
http://p201.ezboard.com/faspergersyndro ... D=30.topic

Darn this forum for letting me post without logging in. Now I cannot edit my post above..

As far as routines go. Habits can be replaced by other habits (I did not use the word 'broken'). The key is to perform the new set of behaviors long enough that they become the habit themselves.
I would regard her lack of understanding for your routines as a blessing. What if you don't end up with her? That means further down the road, you'll need another soulmate. That means you'll have to go through that once more.
Best thing is to learn to be flexible.
Try changing one habit per 3-4 months. Make sure as you add new ones that you don't skimp on the old ones.
Keep a log if you are serious about this.

You did not mention how old you are but from your posts I deduct that you are in your early twenties, if that. You've got many years ahead of you and compared with some of us, you're at an advantage 'cos you have learned about AS at a younger age.

It gets less and less painful with continued effort. It is most painful in the first 2 years or so. Also, it is not consistent throughout. Expect bouts of depression.