new to site. do i have AS?

my name is mike. i work with the developmenatlly disabled as well as people with PDD's. i have worked at 2 different companies totaling at 18 months in the field (i am no expert).

several people i currently work with and people i have worked with in the past have brought to my attention the fact that i display many 'symtpoms' of aspergers syndrome or mild autism. i have read a couple books so far and i have more on the way from amazon.com.

the symptoms that i have are as follows - (is symptoms the correct terminology?)

i pinch the ends of my fingers, to the point of pain (its relieving)

i hate social occasions, if there is more than 4-5 people i have to leave. even if the people present are my friends and family, there is to much going on for me to handle.

i rock back and forth during class or in meetings at work. i shake my legs back and forth as well.

i am very "one-track" minded. i am obsessive about the mind and how it works, thats all i talk about and i know i bore my friends (thankfully my girlfriend is tolerant of me). if a topic interests me i will research it until my close friends grow weary of hearing about it.

i have a routine for everything (even the shower) i had not had many of my routines interrupted until my girlfriend starting living with me, now my routine changes almost every day and i dont know how to explain it to her because i cant explain why i get upset when i cant shower the same way every day or do the same things everyday.

i didnt speak until the age of 3. thereafter, my parents informed me i used age appropriate sentences and language, but not that of your typical toddler.

i have a facination with vocabulary and numbers. i love words and the way they sound. i love numbers and patterns in numbers. i can write down every single phone number i know from memory without being wrong once. i dont know why, i like the numbers. it is over 100 phone numbers, all different and from different states. i am also told i have an 'expansive vocabulary' and i 'use alot of big words'

i do not undertand social chitchat. i dont agree with talking to a person standing in line with me at the checkout. it is pointless and when people try to talk to me it usually ends with me 'being rude' and quickly walking away. i get confused to easily when someone i am not familiar to me is trying to engage in conversation, sometimes it sounds as if the person in front of me was speaking a foreign language. if i can tolerate talking to a stranger most of the conversation is 'auto-pilot' for me. sentences and phrases i have memorized so i can endure talking to people.

i dont understand facial expressions or body language, to an
extent i can figure it out, but with strangers i am lost. i practiced my own facial expressions to try and determine what i looked like, so i could have 'auto-responses' that are appropriate for the conversations that i will possibly engage in.

i hate talking on the phone. i dont know when its my turn to talk or when to end the conversation. so i limit myself to 60 sec on the phone usually when my 'time is up' i will desperatly find a way to end the phone conversation (even with my girlfriend)

i feel alone. even though my friends and family are close, even if they are in the room with me, i still feel alone.

when i go to the grocery store or even go out for coffee, i have a pre-determined list of things to do or get. i have my 'routine' for going out for coffee memorized. i remember someone tried to talk to me when i was on the way into the coffeeshop and distracted me. i forgot what i was doing, i panicked and went back to my car and had to sit for a few minutes to collect my thoughts.

i started a journal, and wrote down my behaviour and tried to determine why i do some of the things i do. i am writing it entirely in longhand, its more satisfying this way. it contains lists of my beahviour as well as DSM4 specifications. as well as excerpts from the books i am reading. i guess you could call it a reference guide to my mind.

i took the Autism Quotient from wire.com. both of my parents scored a 30, my younger brother a 27 and i scored a 46. i know it doesnt provide a diagnosis, but it did make me think even more.

i have talked to my Dr about it and he said that he really didnt know much about AS or Autism. so i contacted the Austism Society of Maine and they are sending me information and locations or psyschologists to talk to.

i just want to know, am i more like my clients at work than i realized? is there help for people like me that can relate to what i have just written? is there testing to find out whether or not a person has AS? if so where do i go? why do i feel so much different than the neurotypicals around me?

-mike

Mike, from what I've read, it sounds like you probably do have Asperger's Syndrome.

The problem with adult diagnosis is that some of the traits could have been covered up through a lifetime of adaptation. In this case, the person is the best judge.

You sound like you have more than enough capacity to make that judgment. Stay with it, find out (it seems to me you're an aspie but it's always better to be sure yourself), and look for areas of improvement.

It also seems to me that you are not beating yourself about this, or feeling frustration. That is a very very positive thing. Congrats.

I have been recommending the same two books over and over. Make a search with my login name and you'll find out which ones. Start from my later posts. It seems like you could benefit from both books. The one about AS is useful in identifying exactly which traits you have. The other one is finding about other 'quirks' and why you have them.

The best way to deal with it is to learn about it.

constructor wrote:The problem with adult diagnosis is that some of the traits could have been covered up through a lifetime of adaptation. In this case, the person is the best judge.

I fully agree with this. When I first attempted to have my diagnosis changed from social phobia to AS I gave my psychiatrist a set of notes after a regular session to read. My understanding was that our next session was to be about AS, and as my psychiatrist agreed would be a good idea, I had my mom take off work and come with me to attend to talk about my early childhood development.

With no notice that was all canceled because from my notes, which were mostly an outline of things for me to talk to him about, he decided he saw nothing but social phobia and bipolar interacting. After spending that entire session arguing and giving exact examples of the many times I've done things on the very opposite extreme of what a person with social phobia (making a fool of myself because I didn't know any better or didn't care)would do in public places he would read my new set of updated notes and setup a neuropsychological evaluation with a psychologist.

After it was all hashed out he finally admitted that he was wary of AS labels because of the stigma it carries and such. I told him I was very well aware of the differeneces between social phobia and AS, and that I also had read that many psychiatrists had been tossing out AS diagnosis as severe cases of social phobia when they should be using avoidant personality disorder instead. He agreed with me, and I think I also got a little point across about my obsessions with neurological and psychological disorders at the same time.

The moral of the story is you might have to fight and argue to even be evaluated for AS as an adult. One of my biggest mistakes with my first set of notes, other than the fact I was never allowed a chance to explain them, was that I left out details about self-stimulation, self-mutilation, echophrasia, toe walking issues as a child, and sensory integration dysfunction issues because I either wanted to explain these in person or didn't think they were strong enough points to bother writing about. Had I written about them I probably would have got an evaluation the first time.

Mikep, I could relate to much of what you’ve described.

Hi I'm new here

A little background might be helpful...
I have no diagnosis of any mental disorder and I've never seen a psychologist or psychiatrist, though I'd like to, just to know what I'm dealing with. There are many odd little things I do and I know most people see me as weird, including my own family, but they can't know just how... different I am because a lot of it goes on in my head, privately. I've put off finding out or doing anything about it until recently because of other problems I've had: social phobia and low self-esteem. These things are now under control - I've reversed the phobia in the same way I'm now reversing arachnophobia so that I no longer care what people think of me unless there's a rational reason to. This means I can admit these things to others now. The understanding of myself that I gained while resolving the phobia has raised my self-esteem, so that I no longer dismiss them as aspects of my freakish half-human nature, and so that I can admit them to myself. Also, the phobia has taken up most of my time for two years, and I think was a far more pressing problem than what I'll describe today, just because of the impact it's had on my psyche and education.

Since then though, I've done some research and it seems to me that even without the psychological issues, I also have many symptoms/traits of more neurologically based ones. Of course I know I can’t ask for a diagnosis online, but I would very much appreciate any thoughts on what these things may be a sign of, or even whether I am just completely alone here.

From a young age I've been very anxious at the idea of change, mainly change of plans. I remember always hating not being able to prepare for an experience, or having one I hadn't had before or in which I didn't know what to expect. Now I’m old enough, I plan my day as much as possible.

I used to like trains and 'boys' toys', and wasn't interested in people or emotions, as girls tend to be. This seems to have gradually changed and now, at 16, I'm fascinated by people, behaviour, and the human brain. Despite this, even without the fear my phobia caused me, I seem to have more difficulty than most in connecting with people and knowing in time when I'm boring them, when to stop talking, and whether they are joking with me or insulting me. I'm also terrible at understanding some kinds of jokes in time, compared with others I know who are worse at English and whom I would expect be able to catch on faster than. I seriously doubt that I would have become interested in people if it weren't for the social phobia. People with it tend to analyse a person very closely, to check for negative reactions and to know how most likely to avoid the disapproval of them. I did this. If, as I've considered, I have a mild form of Aspergers Syndrome, the fact that I read body language OKish could well be due to the fact that I've had to learn it much faster than most would, out of fear and desperation. I often use the knowledge I have from my interest in people to aid what I suspect to be obsessive interests (more on those below), which leads me to believe that psychology is just another obsession as well. (Not that I don’t also care about people, in a philosophical sense - I just don’t think the leisure interest I have in them was innate).

When I was about eight, I began getting urges to even out the pressure on both sides of my body, so that I felt symmetrical. I only saw another person do this on TV about a year ago, about obsessive-compulsive disorder. Until then I thought I was the only one.

Basically, if something touched one limb or one side of me, I'd have to do the same to the other one. Then, because that time it had been done in one order, I'd have to repeat it in the opposite order. So I'd sit there, tapping away at myself until I lost count of how many times each part had had pressure applied and in which order. Oddly, the need and anxiety over it left me immediately when this happened. I did this around other people as well as on my own, but I guess people thought it was a strange phase by a strange person. It was I suppose, because I did 'grow out of it'. However, I moved on to different obsessions and compulsions, so that my mind was always occupied by various routines and retreats of fantasy.

I was always the daydreamer at school and at home. Although I didn’t recognise them as such at the time, I’ve had obsessive interests from at least the age of four, which by the time I was seven, became more and more people-related. For the last six years at least, I’ve always had real people whom I make up stories for. Always people I admire. I research famous people I like and then give them all sorts of friendships and situations, to see what might happen. (This has never been stalkerish, I should point out, because I’m never interested in meeting them in person or having any kind of communication with them, which by most people’s standards makes me not even a real fan.) The mood and nature of the situations corresponds with how I’m feeling, and sometimes I can learn things about my desires and state of mind at the time that I wouldn’t otherwise be aware of, according to what happens in my stories. I never make a personal appearance in these stories. Unless I’m desperately anxious about something, I can always go into my own little world, and on the outside continue with whatever I’m doing, albeit slower and less accurately.

When I’m most comfortable, at home, my mum will frequently tell me something and I’ll respond in a way so that she thinks I’ve listened when I haven’t. I’ll ask her what’s for dinner, genuinely curious but I’ve slipped back inside myself in the second it takes her to answer. Sometimes I’ve asked her the same thing three or four times an evening and can’t remember having asked her at all. Lately, if she asks me a question while I’m deep inside myself, I’ll absently repeat aloud the last few words in her sentence, as if buying myself time to process the information or helping myself to not have forgotten the question by the time I get back to reality. Luckily, she is naturally patient with people.

It’s this failure to come out of a fantasy with ease, even when I really need to, (in exams, I have to keep completely calm because otherwise I start fantasising even though I really don’t want to) and the way they’re there whenever I’m not both relaxed and interested in what I’m doing (like typing as I’m typing this) which makes me think of them as obsessions. It’s as though I’ve made my imagination an obsession in itself.

For a while, when I was doing this, I’d feel a need to toss a small object up in the air. I somehow couldn’t relax until I’d got into a rhythm where I was only partially aware of doing it. I was very fussy about the size and weight of them, too. But again, people found that weird and annoying so I weaned myself off of needing to do it.

I also do the ‘body-rocking’. I didn’t know this was an Aspergers trait.

At the moment, whatever I’m imagining can stay secret except for occasionally when I’ll be really into it. When this happens, if what’s happening is someone talking, my mouth will move as though talking, and I’m only aware that that’s happened when I come to again. Sometimes I’m not aware of doing it at all, and peers at school and my younger sister have mentioned it. It seems so real to me that I’m sure my lips must move in a very readable way, but my sister’s impressions of it just look like strange mouth movements rather than speech. When I’m at home, researching something or someone (I can do this for hours until I feel ill from looking at the computer screen), I get so relaxed and absorbed that my whole body seems to take on a life of it’s own. It doesn’t feel like a compulsion, as the ‘tapping’ did. I’m not aware of it happening until afterwards, when I can vaguely remember seeing where I was going, but little about limb actions. The only person to see this is my sister, because I can forget she’s in my bedroom while I’m at the PC, so I’m relaxed enough to get so absorbed. I know that when it happens I throw myself at the bed and the wall, not hard enough to hurt. I’ll be frantically pacing, not normal pacing to get blood to the head, but very fast running and throwing which I’m not aware of as it happens. The only thing I’ve found comparable to this are tics, as in Tourettes Syndrome, but I’ve never seen anything quite like this described anywhere.

I don’t want to mention that last paragraph to the school counsellor when I go back because I think she might tell my parents, who couldn’t help and would only worry; or would even try to get me sectioned. I know I’m not a danger to others, or myself, but I’m afraid she’d see it as a psychosis.

I also feel alone, even when in conversation. I prefer talking to people on the Internet rather than face-to-face, and now I know for sure it’s not because of social phobia because I don’t care what people think of me anymore. I’m not scared. I just find face-to-face conversation a bit of a chore. I don’t get much enjoyment out of it unless it’s funny. I think understanding how and why I’m different would help.

Sorry this is so long… I didn’t want to miss anything that might be a clue.

Oh and one more little thing...
Even though I often need jokes explained to me, sometimes I find the cheesiest ones absolutely hilarious, and take so long to get over them that people stare. E.G., 'Where do you weigh whales? At a whale-weigh station!' I've thought this was brilliant since I first heard it at seven years old.

Similarly, I take ages to 'get over' (I'm not sure I ever do this; I just eventually think of something else) something that upsets me. I don't just cry for a few minutes. It can go on until for hours if something doesn't take my attention away from it, and years later if something reminds me of a small thing that made me cry, I'll start crying again if I don't stop myself re-living it in time.

Nothing ever wears thin with me

Hi Mike,

my husband Chris is 'Aspie-like', I'm Autistic. People have all kinds of bits of things,... like bits of anxiety, mood, compulsive 'disorders', different kids aquire language late... in fact it is actually common that some non-autie kids aquire language aged 3-5... late, yeah... but its part of the general diveristy. Solitary personalities tend to not build great awareness of facial expression/body language etc as they are geared for solitude, not intimacy or gaining attention. Obsessive-compulsive personalities occur in many geniuses, not all of them Aspie, but it helps! I had a term for folks who were on the cusp between Autie Spectrum folks and non-Auties... I called them Gadoodleborgers, Bridgekeepers between the two worlds... I wrote about these wonderful people in Somebody Somewhere. Perhaps thats where you fit in. It is after all a continuum and many people have bits of Autism/Asperger's so its all about where you feel comfortable... if you feel comfortable with Aspie like people, then find some of them, but you don't need a diagnosis to fit in unless you feel you really need that for some reason... personally, the label doesn't matter to me, the understanding and mutual respect does, whoever that comes from.

Warmly,

Donna Williams *)
ever the naughty autie.