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Hans Asperger 'Helped Nazis Kill Children', Documents Show

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Hans Asperger 'Helped Nazis Kill Children', Documents Show

Postby shock_the_monkey » Thu Apr 19, 2018 4:16 am

this has just been on BBC radio 4 news ...
Hans Asperger 'Helped Nazis Kill Children', Documents Show
something knocked me out' the trees
now i'm on my knees
... don't you know you're gonna shock the monkey

there is one thing you must be sure of
i can't take any more
... don't you know you're gonna shock the monkey

don't like it but i guess i'm learning

... shock the monkey to life
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Re: Hans Asperger 'Helped Nazis Kill Children', Documents Show

Postby AprilR » Thu Apr 19, 2018 9:58 am

I can't say i'm surprised. Some of these autism researchers has always seemed "off" to me. But this is especially ironic considering how he called aspergers "autistic psychopathy"
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Re: Hans Asperger 'Helped Nazis Kill Children', Documents Show

Postby shock_the_monkey » Thu Apr 19, 2018 10:25 am

i'm not surprised either, just saddened. and it'll be the beginning of the end for AS as a politically correct nomenclature.

of autistic psychopathy, psychopath is equivalent to sociopath. so, i can kind of see how aspies might be viewed as passive sociopaths, ie: whilst we don't negatively engage with society, we don't positively either.
something knocked me out' the trees
now i'm on my knees
... don't you know you're gonna shock the monkey

there is one thing you must be sure of
i can't take any more
... don't you know you're gonna shock the monkey

don't like it but i guess i'm learning

... shock the monkey to life
shock_the_monkey
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Re: Hans Asperger 'Helped Nazis Kill Children', Documents Show

Postby AprilR » Thu Apr 19, 2018 10:54 am

shock_the_monkey wrote:i'm not surprised either, just saddened. and it'll be the beginning of the end for AS as a politically correct nomenclature.

of autistic psychopathy, psychopath is equivalent to sociopath. so, i can kind of see how aspies might be viewed as passive sociopaths, ie: whilst we don't negatively engage with society, we don't positively either.


I don't think aspergers was ever used politically correct though especially in the western world. I see a lot of news about shootings where the people always emphasized how the criminal was so anti-social and how it resembled autism and how he didn't have any friends and bla bla. Also i don't understand how sociopathy and autism is similar. Sociopaths don't lack cognitivr empathy in fact they're supposed to be very social and charismatic the opposite of autism. But they lack "consciousness and the feeling of remorse when they do something bad. Autistic people in my experience and what i heard from family members care a LOT about doing the right thing. The reason this two is constantly mixed up is because (completely personal opinion now) in western countries there's a constant "race" between people to become better, stronger and if you're weak in any way it's completely your fault and you deserve to be bullied and shunned from society. Because of this autistic people and especially men internalize a lot of anger and start to display sociopathic behavior when it's not inherently "them" Again this is completely my idea, i've not stayed in a western country more than 1 year but just reading how terrible people have been treated makes me so surprised. As a VERY shy and even sometimes selectively mute person i've never been bullied and was often protected. And i'm very thankful for that.
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Re: Hans Asperger 'Helped Nazis Kill Children', Documents Show

Postby shock_the_monkey » Thu Apr 19, 2018 12:17 pm

AprilR wrote:I don't think aspergers was ever used politically correct though especially in the western world. I see a lot of news about shootings where the people always emphasized how the criminal was so anti-social and how it resembled autism and how he didn't have any friends and bla bla.

... that's the media. i certainly don't think that's true of academia.

AprilR wrote:Also i don't understand how sociopathy and autism is similar. Sociopaths don't lack cognitivr empathy in fact they're supposed to be very social and charismatic the opposite of autism. But they lack "consciousness and the feeling of remorse when they do something bad. Autistic people in my experience and what i heard from family members care a LOT about doing the right thing. The reason this two is constantly mixed up is because (completely personal opinion now) in western countries there's a constant "race" between people to become better, stronger and if you're weak in any way it's completely your fault and you deserve to be bullied and shunned from society. Because of this autistic people and especially men internalize a lot of anger and start to display sociopathic behavior when it's not inherently "them" Again this is completely my idea, i've not stayed in a western country more than 1 year but just reading how terrible people have been treated makes me so surprised. As a VERY shy and even sometimes selectively mute person i've never been bullied and was often protected. And i'm very thankful for that.

... when asperger characterised what's now known as AS, he did so through behavioural observation. there was none of the deeper psychological understanding that exists now. and, without doing too much digging around i think that, at that time psychopathy meant a-social, rather than anti-social. we now know much more about what lies behind behaviours, from a psychological perspective, and that has rather moulded our understanding of certain psychiatric terms. as such, the terms asperger used then look misplaced to us now. anyway, that's my understanding.
something knocked me out' the trees
now i'm on my knees
... don't you know you're gonna shock the monkey

there is one thing you must be sure of
i can't take any more
... don't you know you're gonna shock the monkey

don't like it but i guess i'm learning

... shock the monkey to life
shock_the_monkey
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Re: Hans Asperger 'Helped Nazis Kill Children', Documents Show

Postby 1PolarBear » Mon Apr 23, 2018 2:18 pm

Psychopathy meant a disorder that was believed to be genetic in nature. When he talks about autistic psychopathy, it means a psychopathy of an autistic nature. So, yes, in this case asocial, although some of his children were also turbulent. His contribution was mainly about talking on the cognitive empathy problem, where the theory of mind was not working properly, or like the other children, who could for example tell someone is lying, and that you have to take it into account into communication. Lack of make-believe play it would be called now, but he used the term autistic.
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