Aspergers and Sex

Fengxian wrote:Seeing a prostitute whilst in a relationship is still cheating. If anything, it's worse since you are actively paying someone to have sex with you which degrades both parties, but the prostitute more imo.

I would be so mad if I found out my partner had paid for sex. It's still a breach of trust at the end of the day and still sharing with someone else what should be only with your partner.

There is cheating...
And then their is cheating...

Cheating as a result of simple lustful urges...
And "Cheating of the heart" which involves your partner having an emotional attachment to the woman/man he/she/she/he is stoomping...
The latter would probably be in the form of an affair...

Regarding the punter and the sex worker degrading each other...
This can happen...
But not necessarily so if both parties are philosophically and emotionally mature.

Regarding the sex worker:
Some people aren't suited to the work and shouldn't do it if they are damaged emotionally.
I.E. Not suited...don't do it...not rocket science...<shrug>

However, some sex workers have the emotional and philosophical maturity/enlightenment to be comfortable with the work.

Also consider proffessional sexual surrogates who's work entails helping others with sexual difficulties...I.E. A sexual therapist.
Would you consider such a person to have low moral standards?
Or would it be more likely that they are simply more philosophically enlightened and understand that social norms are largely arbitrary man made values often used as a form of social control?

Most significant other relationships would inherently imply physical and emotional fidelity...
But there are such things as open relationships where both parties are free to satisfy their physical lusts and still maintain a significant other relationship with each other.

Also consider, in my time there was a phenomenon called the sexual revolution which involved sharing free sex with everyone and anyone that took your fancy.
In the hippy culture, this was not immoral...it was enlightened...
"Make luv, not war" was the catch cry...
As I said, social morality is actually an arbitrary man made invention...
Unfortunately, Aids and commercial reality derailed/murdered that cultural meme...<shrug>

One last point...
Many have said that being paid to work as a bank clerk, etc, is simply another form of prostitution...
Go figure...

it's difficult to tackle such a twisted understanding of human relationships. and in the PC world we live in, no one dare anyway! if people don't have a religious or spiritual understanding of this subject, it's no wonder that they think anything goes. that's what they see in the media all the time. news, films, books, magazines, they all tell the same story. and it's one of intrigue and lust and power. all the things that people crave because of their addiction to stimulation, no matter what that stimulation really is. i find it all very sad. and what's sadest is that people actually think this is the way to live their lives. this all seems to me a bit like arguing against athiesm. the athiest isn't ever even listening.

Sh3ld0n I think someone slipped a blue pill into your drink. Maybe more than one kind LOL
You know me well enough to know that for the most part I am content with everyone have their own opinions, whether or not they are the same as mine. People have their reasons and they different lives and motivations and so their opinions are just as valid as anyone else's. But in this, you're talking out of both sides of your mouth, and making excuses for guys with no self-control!

Sh3ld0n wrote:Seeing a sex worker is not really cheating...since it usually involves the animalistic urges rather than the predominately cognitive aspects which defines a "meaningful" relationship.
Having an affair, on the other hand, is cheating I would have thought.

Surveys indicate that the majority of clients who see sex workers here in Oz are married men.
Many married men love their partner yet still see a sex worker.

On an adult forum I was on a few years ago, a number of husbands mentioned seeing a sex worker helped their marriage by allowing them to satisfy their purely sexual appetite while maintaining the relationship with their significant other.

Excuses. So what you're saying is, men who cannot control themselves are simply being the animal that they are and therefore ought to be excused. So, if I want to fling my poop at you (which I kinda do right now) I should be able to do that, in public, and everyone should say "Oh she's just allowing herself to have her animalistic urges, so it's OK!"

Sh3ld0n wrote: Keep in mind that nothing mentioned above has any direct relationship to me personally.
I am merely being an objective observer without bias as far as that is possible.

Then why bring it up? Some people feel that bullfighting is right and good, but I would have no wish to argue their case unless I wanted to go along with it and make excuses for them. So either you kinda agree with all this or else you're just trolling your own forum!

Sh3ld0n wrote:Keep in mind, men tend to be polygamous...
Evolution has made them(us) what they are regardless of self denial...<shrug>
It is easier for women to be "virtuous" since they they have different genetically inspire imperatives...
I suggest people don't take the human animal too seriously...

You just said it, evolution has changed us FROM polygamous TO Monogamous. Which means, if a man likes to cheat, I'm calling him a caveman.

Sh3ld0n wrote:First thing I should mention (before you gals and Shocky knee me in the gonads, as Howard Wolowitz might say) is that it is in my nature to lean towards monogamy, but if I were to be honest (I'm autistic, do I really have a choice), that might be due to my being a chick repellant rather than a chick magnet...
It might also simply be due to the inherent honest nature of most on the autistic spectrum...
And not being good at lying...

Honesty is great, we're mostly aspies here and therefore agree with that. But didn't you say earlier that it can help a marriage to have sex outside the marriage (In secret presumably)? No honesty in that, so I see a big contradiction here.

If you want to make the case that you personally could not see yourself with only one woman for life, well then fine, that's called a swinger, and there are lots of men and women out there who feel that way, and I even said this earlier, if both people feel that way and agree, then FINE. I have no problem with that. I'm not that way myself, but I don't judge couples who have that lifestyle.
I'm just having a problem with sex-for-money, and with cheating, which IS dishonest.

Sh3ld0n wrote:And consider this:
Sexual power tends to corrupt...
Absolute sexual power tends to corrupt absolutely...
Just ask Tiger Woody (Woods...appropriate...lol)

Um, yeah, that's called sexual addiction. Replace the word in "sexual" with "alcoholic" or "gambling" and it still works. Not good.

Sh3ld0n wrote:But getting back on topic...
I have heard/read that NT men in particular tend to downplay the importance of extra relationship sexual dalliance.
"It's only sex, ffs..."
One may not like this attitude, but if one is interested in the honest reality, I personally think one needs to accept "the inconvenient truth..." that many, if not most, men think this way.
THE BEASTS!!!

LOL. Wow, the mother of all excuses! Many men may feel this way, and most men may "Wish" that this were a valid excuse, but fortunately most men also recognize that it isn't! Oh they might try to use it, but even then they know it's just an excuse.

Sh3ld0n wrote:One of the arguments on the adult website which married men gave for their hi-in-fidelity was that their partner "let themselves go"...

So, they woke up one day and saw that their wife had gained 50 pounds overnight, got wrinkles on her face and hasn't colored her hair for the last 2 years. Boom! Seriously?
Obviously the reason for most infidelity is problems in the marriage, whether it's her "letting herself go" or some other problem that never got addressed. The point is, marriages don't dissolve overnight, it happens over time, and there is always a point where one can say "Look, if such-n-such thing doesn't change, this marriage is going downhill, so let's work on it". And you either work on it and fix it or get divorced, and the idea is to do this BEFORE you go out looking elsewhere!
I will give you this: I do believe that it is fair to expect your partner to not change too much after getting married, and that means mentally AND physically. Most people agree that personality changes are not fair after marriage, but they get all up-in-arms if anyone tells them that physical changes count too. Aging must be expected of course, but things that ARE under our control should at least be attempted.

Sh3ld0n wrote:My point is that men, women and Shocky see things from a different perspective...duh...

And I wouldn't have it any other way!

Sh3ld0n wrote:Also consider professional sexual surrogates who's work entails helping others with sexual difficulties...I.E. A sexual therapist.
Would you consider such a person to have low moral standards?
Or would it be more likely that they are simply more philosophically enlightened and understand that social norms are largely arbitrary man made values often used as a form of social control?

You do realize that you've just insulted everyone who cringes at the thought of paid-for sex?

Speaking of Howard Wolowitz, don't forget the predicament that his ways got him into:

Nurse: *Lifts up towel* What is this?
Howard: It's a robot arm.
Nurse: Where's the rest of the robot?
Howard: I only built the arm.
Nurse: Because that's all you needed, right?

slugger, i suspect Sh3ld0n is, to some extent, playing devil's advocate here. also, i do rather believe kneeing him in the gonads, as he contra-intimated, would be more effective than any reasoned argument.

shock_the_monkey wrote:slugger, i suspect Sh3ld0n is, to some extent, playing devil's advocate here. also, i do rather believe kneeing him in the gonads, as he contra-intimated, would be more effective than any reasoned argument.

LOL yes, as I suggested in my post, I suspect him of trolling his own forum. Maybe he's just masochistic, in which case kneeing him in the gonads would be exactly what he wants. Now THAT's TMI!

slugger wrote:Sh3ld0n I think someone slipped a blue pill into your drink. Maybe more than one kind LOL
You know me well enough to know that for the most part I am content with everyone have their own opinions, whether or not they are the same as mine. People have their reasons and they different lives and motivations and so their opinions are just as valid as anyone else's. But in this, you're talking out of both sides of your mouth, and making excuses for guys with no self-control!

I'm off to some more work on my house so I'll respond comprehensively later.

First things first...
Penny, I am very appreciative of your responding to the post.
I highly value your contribution, as you would know by now.

Before a mob with pitchforks and torches is created, let me remind people that one of my main hobbies is to explore ideas with the intention of stretching the boundaries of philosophical enlightenment by engaging my quest for the Truth...

Remember, "Truth has no boundaries..." and "The truth is the truth no matter where it may take us"...and as Richard Dawkins stated, "There are no versions of the truth..."

Guys, please don't maul me too badly before I have a chance to respond comprehensively...
Please engage your intellect and give your emotions a sedative so it can have a snooze during this discussion...<Sheldon thinks: Have I crossed some sort of line with that comment?>

Indeed, as you can see Shock and I do see that you are playing "devil's advocate" which in itself I can totally appreciate. Part of the reason I love this forum is that we can endure lengthy discussions on things that NT's couldn't stand to talk about.
I did take a proverbial chill pill before posting, and tried to keep it light. It's just so easy to argue with something that is so obviously wrong though LOL [..... runs away before her poop can be slung back at her]

slugger wrote:Sh3ld0n I think someone slipped a blue pill into your drink. Maybe more than one kind LOL
You know me well enough to know that for the most part I am content with everyone have their own opinions, whether or not they are the same as mine. People have their reasons and they different lives and motivations and so their opinions are just as valid as anyone else's. But in this, you're talking out of both sides of your mouth, and making excuses for guys with no self-control!

Nope...Definitely still taking the red pill...

My comment about seeing a sex worker not being cheating was a stretch.
Very loosely, some *other* men see it that way.
I think I confused myself this time...

Regarding everyone's opinion being equally valid, I have to disagree...
Some people in the past believed the earth was flat and that people would fall over the edge.
Clearly their opinion on the matter was shite...

Regarding my making an excuse for guys with no self control, I did no such thing...
In this I was not giving an opinion...
I was making an *observation*...
And the "Truth" is never and excuse, btw...

The following is self evident:
Men and women have different psychological governing factors.
Men are more visually stimulated by sexual "markers"/stimuli than women.
Surely you don't disagree with this.

All I am saying is that, when it involves a sexual context, men tend to go off half cocked more so than women because of such things as testosterone and cultural influences.
Men tend to be more easily seduced as a result.
Simply an observation...not a validation for infidelity.

slugger wrote:But didn't you say earlier that it can help a marriage to have sex outside the marriage (In secret presumably)? No honesty in that, so I see a big contradiction here.

No, I said/meant that some men on the adult website said that...

slugger wrote:
If you want to make the case that you personally could not see yourself with only one woman for life, well then fine, that's called a swinger, and there are lots of men and women out there who feel that way, and I even said this earlier, if both people feel that way and agree, then FINE. I have no problem with that. I'm not that way myself, but I don't judge couples who have that lifestyle.
I'm just having a problem with sex-for-money, and with cheating, which IS dishonest.

Autistic individuals tend to prefer a few good friends than a hoard of superficial friends.
This applies to me also...
And I believe this inherent tendency translates into autistic individuals having a greater desire for fidelity/loyalty overall than their NT counterparts...(Penny's hubbie excluded... )

Regarding your having a problem with paid sex...
You have a partner, and presumably have coital intimacy, as Sheldon might say...
Presumably this facet of you life is satiated.

But what of those who have a social disability which denies them one of the few comforts in the abomination of Stalag Earth?
Are you seriously saying you would deny mature consenting adult this arrangement?

The last time I looked, the escort industry was illegal in the UK and America.
Here in Australia it is a perfectly legal in all states but South Australia (where the authorities turn a blind eye).
The legal system here has deemed the industry "moral" or at least not immoral...
Something to think about.

And consider this:
In hospitals, it is common practice by nurses to masturbate patients who are incapable of doing so themselves, for sexual relief.
Apart from the exchange of money, isn't it essentially the same thing...I.E. the reduction of sexual frustration?

Seriously, Penny...<Sheldon gives Penny a disapproving look and shakes his head>

Your shovel must be all worn out now, digging yourself deep and then digging back up!

Sh3ld0n wrote:Regarding your having a problem with paid sex...
You have a partner, and presumably have coital intimacy, as Sheldon might say...
Presumably this facet of you life is satiated.

But what of those who have a social disability which denies them one of the few comforts in the abomination of Stalag Earth?
Are you seriously saying you would deny mature consenting adult this arrangement?

In other words: "That's easy for YOU to say, you're married!" And yes that is fair, it is easy for me to say, even if weren't married, all a girl has to do to "get some" is go to the nearest bar wearing skanky clothes and find a drunk guy LOL (No I've never done that, I'm just sayin'!)
Also, I must say that the women in that profession are, presumably anyway, "grown women" who have consciously made that decision, and if they want to be used well then why should you feel bad for taking them up on that, eh? Doesn't mean I have to like it, but there it is.

Sh3ld0n wrote:The last time I looked, the escort industry was illegal in the UK and America.

It's state by state, and it is legal in some states, typically the same ones that allow gambling. I happen to be in one that does NOT allow it. It's still abundantly found though, on the streets, but if I were to partake I would definitely go to where it's legal and controlled.

Sh3ld0n wrote:And consider this:
In hospitals, it is common practice by nurses to masturbate patients who are incapable of doing so themselves, for sexual relief.
Apart from the exchange of money, isn't it essentially the same thing...I.E. the reduction of sexual frustration?

I suppose, I've never heard of that done in hospitals, so I've never thought about that.

Sh3ld0n wrote:Regarding everyone's opinion being equally valid, I have to disagree...
Some people in the past believed the earth was flat and that people would fall over the edge.
Clearly their opinion on the matter was shite...

Well yeah, but I was only including thing that are actually opinions, not things that are facts like the earth being round (excuse me, somewhat spherical). If one's opinion is factually wrong, then it's not an opinion, they're just wrong! .

Sh3ld0n wrote:The following is self evident:
Men and women have different psychological governing factors.
Men are more visually stimulated by sexual "markers"/stimuli than women.
Surely you don't disagree with this.

Absolutely, no argument there! Men are visual, no question. And easily manipulated by women who know this fact! LOL:lol:

Sh3ld0n wrote:All I am saying is that, when it involves a sexual context, men tend to go off half cocked more so than women because of such things as testosterone and cultural influences.
Men tend to be more easily seduced as a result.
Simply an observation...not a validation for infidelity.

Hey you said it, not me!

Sh3ld0n wrote:Seriously, Penny...<Sheldon gives Penny a disapproving look and shakes his head>

Oh Pullease, like you didn't purposely word your post to make it sound like you shared the opinions you mentioned, thereby inciting a long discussion about sex..... You don't fool me!

--- (BTW I was going to use this lightbulb, but I think it look more like the backside of a gardener LOL)