Aspergers and Sex

shock_the_monkey wrote:on balance, i'd have to say that i'd be against such a move in the UK. i can't help feeling that there ought to be more to a relationship than just the exchange of money. and i can't help feeling that even with the best will in the world, this kind of thing reduces people to sexual objects. no, it just doesn't feel right to me in any sense of the word.

From my point of view, based on my life experience, I think you are buying into NT social indoctrination.
There is nothing intrinsically wrong with satisfying urges and needs defined by genetic parameters, as long as it is mutual and doesn't negatively effect others.

Some people are sexual masochists, and want to engage into sado-masochistic relationships.
If they have an inherent need to fulfill, isn't it their choice?
It is a valid choice, in terms of a relationship, if it is mutual, surely.

The typical BF/GF relationship used to start off with the male buying meals, and after the third date he can recoup his losses or invoke his "voucher" for sexual favours.
It may not be cash but it is really simply a commercial exchange for sexual comfort.

The only difference is the emotional involvement that may or may not be involved.

If both parties simply want sexual gratification, what is wrong with that?
Are you saying it is not OK for a man to be simply interested in satiating genetically inspired sexual urges but it is OK for a woman to behave in such a way?

There are different types of maturity...one being philosophical maturity...
To be a slave to arbitrary man made social norms is an insult to the integrity of the individual, to my way of thinking...

Sh3ld0n wrote:From my point of view, based on my life experience, I think you are buying into NT social indoctrination.

i don't doubt you do. but i think that's more a reflection of your own limitations rather than mine. sorry Sh3ld0n but you do seem to lack any real empathy at times.

Sh3ld0n wrote:There is nothing intrinsically wrong with satisfying urges and needs defined by genetic parameters, as long as it is mutual and doesn't negatively effect others.

big caveats there. i personally don't care what people get up to in the privacy of their own homes. but i don't want sexuality to be commercialised. i think i made that quite clear previously. sexuality ought to be about more than usury. and money is the currency of using people. i'm dead against that. and that's not some NT indoctrination. it's my carefully considered opinion.

Sh3ld0n wrote:Some people are sexual masochists, and want to engage into sado-masochistic relationships.
If they have an inherent need to fulfill, isn't it their choice?
It is a valid choice, in terms of a relationship, if it is mutual, surely.

i think the world is really screwed up in places and some people are really screwed up with it. but i don't have to agree with everything under the banner of free will, do i!!!

Sh3ld0n wrote:The typical BF/GF relationship used to start off with the male buying meals, and after the third date he can recoup his losses or invoke his "voucher" for sexual favours.
It may not be cash but it is really simply a commercial exchange for sexual comfort.

The only difference is the emotional involvement that may or may not be involved.

If both parties simply want sexual gratification, what is wrong with that?
Are you saying it is not OK for a man to be simply interested in satiating genetically inspired sexual urges but it is OK for a woman to behave in such a way?

There are different types of maturity...one being philosophical maturity...
To be a slave to arbitrary man made social norms is an insult to the integrity of the individual, to my way of thinking...

yep, romantically you're a complete no-hoper!!! but please don't think that everyone thinks like you do about such things. not everyone sees sex as just a mechanical process to be undertaken with any willing partner with no more meaning than passing the time of day or gratifying some uncontrollable urges. though i do accept that's what our increasingly secular society would have us believe. i find that extremely sad.

Thank you for spelling all that out Shock, that was well said. Especially this part:

shock_the_monkey wrote:sexuality ought to be about more than usury. and money is the currency of using people. i'm dead against that. and that's not some NT indoctrination. it's my carefully considered opinion.

Also, while a lot of guys do seem to be able to think of sex as meaningless, women do not. And women who are used for their bodies (supposedly voluntarily or not) are damaged emotionally.

Sh3l0n, I think I get what you're saying in theory, but the reality is that there are emotions involved in sex, especially for women, and even aspies can't get around that. Look at it this way: When a woman cheapens herself to make her intimacy a commodity, it makes her as person lose value. Self respect is a lot more valuable than money, wouldn't you say? And yes, one's "nether regions" are directly related to self respect.

Shock explained it best, but as a woman all I can say is this: While I am the type of person that doesn't typically buy into cultural "do's and dont's" (or if I do, at least I can see it for what it is), I know that if I were to sell my body like that, I would feel like I'm less than worthless. I just would.

Now, if you could find a robot woman to have your way with, that'd be another story!

here's a 'joke' i recall reading many years ago:

man says to woman: would you sleep with me for one million pounds?
woman replies: yes.
man says: how about one pound?
woman replies: what do you take me for!!!
man says: i think i've already established that, we're just discussing the price now.

shock_the_monkey wrote:here's a 'joke' i recall reading many years ago:

man says to woman: would you sleep with for one million pounds?
woman replies: yes.
man says: how about one pound?
woman replies: what do you take me for!!!
man says: it think i've already established that, we're just discussing the price now.

Haaaaa good one, and yes quite apropos!!

shock_the_monkey wrote:

Wise Guy2 wrote:How can people actually have sex, or relationships?

how can they not. given that our species is dependent on sexual reproduction, it would be extremely unusual if this was actually abnormal.

That would only be true if we all could not override our special instinct to reproduce. As it is, a lot of humans have no interest in reproducing (myself included).

I have a relationship because I would be lonely otherwise, albeit I have my companion animals to keep me company, there's something that a human lover can give that an animal companion obviously can't (in a consensual manner), sex.

Not that sex is that important to me in a relationship - always seems to be the male who is obsessed with it's importance. I'm also with the person I'm with because we have some of the same interests, he makes me laugh, he's helpful, someone to vent to who won't bite my head of for being me and so on.

slugger wrote:Thank you for spelling all that out Shock, that was well said. Especially this part:

shock_the_monkey wrote:sexuality ought to be about more than usury. and money is the currency of using people. i'm dead against that. and that's not some NT indoctrination. it's my carefully considered opinion.

Also, while a lot of guys do seem to be able to think of sex as meaningless, women do not. And women who are used for their bodies (supposedly voluntarily or not) are damaged emotionally.

Sh3l0n, I think I get what you're saying in theory, but the reality is that there are emotions involved in sex, especially for women, and even aspies can't get around that. Look at it this way: When a woman cheapens herself to make her intimacy a commodity, it makes her as person lose value. Self respect is a lot more valuable than money, wouldn't you say? And yes, one's "nether regions" are directly related to self respect.

Shock explained it best, but as a woman all I can say is this: While I am the type of person that doesn't typically buy into cultural "do's and dont's" (or if I do, at least I can see it for what it is), I know that if I were to sell my body like that, I would feel like I'm less than worthless. I just would.

Now, if you could find a robot woman to have your way with, that'd be another story!

There have been a few times over the last few years I've had to enter the trade where I exchange favours for currency. Jobs are hard to come by these days in my area, especially when one lacks a vehicle or valid drivers license or certain educational degrees combined with a few years experience. I never thought I'd enter such a trade, but desperate times call for desperate measures and it's more profitable than collecting welfare.

In the beginning, it was actually a self-esteem boost and empowering. I was making decent money and people found me attractive enough to pay for such things. After a while, it did start to kill me inside. I could list a great many reasons as to why, though it'd be quite lengthy. One thing I will say is that I'm a relationship kinda gal. I like to have somebody to love and I like to be loved in return. I don't like to be used. After a while, I started to feel very used. I also started to question how trust-worthy men-folk are. It feels awful walking into somebodies bedroom and seeing pictures of their wedding day and artifacts of a woman who clearly lives there. I'd think to myself "This woman trusts you and loves you, and here you are paying to _explitive deleted_ another girl in the bed you share with your wife/girlfriend." It's a horrible feeling. It's a job I've been trying to escape for years, though there are times of unemployment that force me to go back to it. There's also not a lot of money in it these days. Although, there is more money in it if you have less rules. Whenever I've gone back to it (out of necessity), I get pressured to have less rules. The ones I have are there for two reasons: 1) My safety and hygiene plus that of my clients 2) I'm already de-value-ing myself (whatever that word is I'm looking for), I'm not about to lower my morals any more than I already am. And believe me, I am, otherwise I wouldn't be there.

I liked the robot-partners they had on Futurama. Fry was dating a robot of Lucy Liu. When I first saw that episode, I wanted my own robot of Zac Hanson circa early 2000s. There are very expensive, more life-like dolls that people can order. Not necessarily based off celebrities, though I'm sure you can customize them :p I believe they're crafted in Japan and are pretty much robots, though I could be wrong. I've seen them shown on the science channel, and advertised in dirty magazines.

In personal relationships, I've pretty much always gone after who and what I want. When I set my eye on somebody, they generally don't stand a chance. It's rare that I get shot down. Not being egotistical, just stating a fact. I don't wait for the man to make the first move. I don't expect them to take me out for dinner or pay my way when we go out someplace together. I like to pay my own way, or pay for them. I had very little problem picking up my current (not quite-official but everybody else considers us to be) AS guy. It was more difficult picking up a reading on him than anything else (though once he starting being completely honest with me, I understood why.) We have a lot in common, bring out the best in each-other, understand the not-so-best in each-other, and enjoy spending time together. We're also pretty well matched in the bedroom department and are very attracted to eachother. To answer some of the OP's ponderations regarding relationships, I figure some of the qualities I just mentioned are why people engage in relationships. It's nice to have somebody who "gets" you, to bounce your thoughts off of, who's there for your ups and downs, and somebody you enjoy spending time with.

In regards to coitus, some people have a higher sex drive than others. Some have zero sex drive. This applies to everybody, not just NTs, not just people with AS. I personally feel it's better to find somebody who's drive matches yours, and to establish that early in the relationship before things get too serious. I'm not a habitual cheater nor do I condone cheating (although I've cheated before in the past, and recently was "the other woman" without realizing it) however generally speaking, if a partners needs aren't being met, they are more likely to eventually find somebody who will meet said needs. This doesn't mean it's going to happen or it will happen, some people are very good at staying true to their other half, I'm just saying that the chances of this tend to increase when one has a high drive while the other has a low drive. Some people feel sex is merely for purposes of reproduction. I am not one of those people. I don't want another child. Ever! I have sex because I enjoy it. Especially when I have a fun partner! I get depressed in relationships where my guy has a low drive...usually because my drive dips low when I lose attraction to or interest in the person I'm with, so I assume his low drive means he's losing interest in me.

Thank you for sharing that, Fayth, that was very personal and gave us good insight on someone from your perspective, who's "been there".
I hope that you can stay gainfully employed enough to not have to do that anymore. It's great that you have a guy now that seems to be a good partner for you. Bringing out the best in each other is very important!

I agree with your last paragraph, that regardless of NT or AS or whatever, the bottom line is that the two people in a relationship need to have a similar level of sex drive. They also ought to have a similar tastes in what they like to do, and what is acceptable too! Whether it's "missionary on sundays", or full out swinging and craziness, the important thing is that the 2 people in the relationship both agree on what they like.

slugger wrote:Whether it's "missionary on sundays", or full out swinging and craziness, ...

... too much information!!!

shock_the_monkey wrote:

slugger wrote:Whether it's "missionary on sundays", or full out swinging and craziness, ...

... too much information!!!

Errr, I didn't give any information, and I hope I didn't come across like I was asking for any because I really don't wanna know either!