WHO HERE IS CONVINCED OF HAVING A HEART PROBLEM?

brownie wrote:Barry did you ever give CBT a try?

CBT, RET (rational emotive)...yes, yes, I totally recommend (and practice) that to anyone!

mmm, may I say a topic dear to my heart.

For all of you who are concerned about heart issues, please let me interject some personal knowledge and experiences. Anxiety, especially PTSD, increases the stress on the heart and over time can cause physical damage. After my recent assault, my doc put me on Xanax to control anxiety which had also manifested itself also in an increase in my blood pressure. I am older than most of you guys, so frequent high blood pressure is a concern in my health-age group.

But even younger folks can have heart conditions that can go unnoticed. As JoCasey mentioned, the thyroid controls the heart rate. The opposite side of her condition is called hyperthyroidism (overactive thyroid) and can cause bouts of racing heart beat which can result in heart attacks. This condition can be easily diagnosed and treated, but is often overlooked in younger patients.

My 27 year-old daughter developed congestive heart failure due to a high risk/stress pregnancy. Her heart condition remained undiagnosed for months. After a year of more stress and not taking care of herself, she had a heart attack and is fully disabled now.

I am not trying to scare you guys, just know that if you are having heart problems, get the best treatment available by a cardiologist. If that determines that nothing is "physically" wrong, work on keeping your stress level to a minimum. I know, easier said than done, but even a healthy heart can become compromised if it is continually dealing with the fight/flight reactions caused by stress and anxiety.

Best wishes all....

N.

nymenche wrote: As JoCasey mentioned, the thyroid controls the heart rate. The opposite side of her condition is called hyperthyroidism (overactive thyroid) and can cause bouts of racing heart beat which can result in heart attacks. This condition can be easily diagnosed and treated, but is often overlooked in younger patients.
.

N.

That's fascinating, nymenche. Thanks for sharing. I love learning about all the thyroid hormones and "partially" knew, but never fully, heartily (pun intended:) knew how much of an impact the thyroid (controls its pace) has on the heart. What if you use your vocal chords a lot or get elbowed in the throat, woudl those effect the thyroid hormone? What hormone, specifically, from the thyroid produces the heart rate regulation? Growth hormone?

Hi Kooz,

Some of this is cut and paste from this site

http://www.endocrineweb.com/hyper1.html

but in a nutshell:

In healthy people, the thyroid makes just the right amounts of two hormones,T4 and T3, which have important actions throughout the body. These hormones regulate many aspects of our metabolism, eventually affecting how many calories we burn, how warm we feel, and how much we weigh. In short, the thyroid "runs" our metabolism. These hormones also have direct effects on most organs, including the heart which beats faster and harder under the influence of thyroid hormones.

As far as damage to the vocal cords, cancer of the thyroid or an enlargement of the thyroid (called goiters) can affect the vocal cords. Also any traumatic injury can affect the function of the glands and/or the vocal cords. But I don't think the overproduction or underproduction of the hormones actually affect the vocal cords. The thyroid, like most of the immune system is controlled by the pituitary gland which is controlled by the hypothalamus. The thyroid itself absorbs iodine and converts it into T3 and T4 which control the body's metabolism. In the early 1900's salt manufactures in the US began to add iodine to table salt to ensure that people consume enough to provide adequate thyroid function.

I became familiar with hyperthyroidism after my mother was diagnosed in her early 40's. She had 3 sisters who also developed the condition at different points in their lives, and the medical evidence indicates the predisposition to thyroid diseases is familial.

Hope this has helped some.

Best wishes....

N.

nymenche wrote:Hi Kooz,

Some of this is cut and paste from this site

http://www.endocrineweb.com/hyper1.html

but in a nutshell:

In healthy people, the thyroid makes just the right amounts of two hormones,T4 and T3, which have important actions throughout the body. These hormones regulate many aspects of our metabolism, eventually affecting how many calories we burn, how warm we feel, and how much we weigh. In short, the thyroid "runs" our metabolism. These hormones also have direct effects on most organs, including the heart which beats faster and harder under the influence of thyroid hormones.

As far as damage to the vocal cords, cancer of the thyroid or an enlargement of the thyroid (called goiters) can affect the vocal cords. Also any traumatic injury can affect the function of the glands and/or the vocal cords. But I don't think the overproduction or underproduction of the hormones actually affect the vocal cords. The thyroid, like most of the immune system is controlled by the pituitary gland which is controlled by the hypothalamus.

Yes. Yes. Thank you, nymenche! This is exactly the type of stuff in which I've been interested. I find physiological "chain of command sequence" of the body fascinating, don't you? Hypothalamus ---> Pituitary--->Thyroid gland. Amazing the type of intra-body glandular communication that arises with neurotransmitters and such, with very potent chemical ramifications. I've read a lot of psychology and have distilled from it that frankly it feels like primarily muck or opinion mixed in with some decent, solid, eye-opening ideas. However, the fundamental hormonal physiological organization has an obvious constant; EVERYONE's hormones (given everything's in order) works that same way, and I find it essential and fascinating to learn of that functionality . A random body factoid: did you know consumed food passes through 5 "flaps" (seperating it from different digestive compartments) before being fully digested and exits the body? The epiglottis, the cariac sphincter, pyloric sphincter, and then 2 sphincters near the recum. Ahhh...Wayne would be proud!:) A sphincter says what?

fThe thyroid itself absorbs iodine and converts it into T3 and T4 which control the body's metabolism. In the early 1900's salt manufactures in the US began to add iodine to table salt to ensure that people consume enough to provide adequate thyroid function.

T3 and T4 are hormones, right? that directly control metabolism? I've been fasinated by this because as far as I can tell it seems like their exist MUCH more hormones in the body that increase glucose levels -- thyroid hormone, glucocortoids, glucagon, adrenocorticotropic hormone (ACTH), growth hormone, etc. -- that decrease glucose -- insulin (and somatostatin) I think -- so doesn't it seem like we have a physiological precedent for diabetes?

Okay, while all this physiology sounds fascinating. I was really trying to figure out if using yoru vocal chords (like speaking) more releases more of the metabolic hormone (T3 and T4, apparently). I ask because days where I've spoken more in the morning (like a couple of hours) I have an insanely fast metabolism for that day. This, obviously (and most likely) is attributed to the fact that on days where I speak in the morning, I usually end up doing more in that day, which is a more direct cause of the increased metabolism.

However, the proximity of the larynix to the thyroid sparked this odd, peculiar question.

I became familiar with hyperthyroidism after my mother was diagnosed in her early 40's. She had 3 sisters who also developed the condition at different points in their lives, and the medical evidence indicates the predisposition to thyroid diseases is familial.

Hope this has helped some.

Best wishes....

N.

Yes. THANKS. You didn't bombard me with tons of obscure medical jargon I couldn't understand, but somehow "knew" the point of entry where you didn't bor me with obvious physiological stuff, either!

One question about T3 and T4: "which have important actions throughout the body". Why does this description have such ambiguity? What, specifically, does T3 and T4 do throughout the body. It always seems like hormones operate from the epitome of "multi-facetted" roles. Like Growth hormone, for example, has dozens and dozens of usages. And the site you referenced said

[Thyroid]hormone has an effect on nearly all tissues of the body where it increases cellular activity.

. The only problem is just about every hormone I read about (except for maybe FSH and Luteinizing hormone, which have seemingly specific applications), is referred to in this "wonder hormone" that "does everything" and has an effect on "nearly all the tissues", etc. While I do not doubt those hormones do all of that and more, this makes learning about the endocrine system VERY difficult and complex. Any simply diagram or chart out there indicating some of these usages? Same goes for digestion, carbs, protiens, and fats, get broken down by a variety of enzymes throught all of the body's "tubes" (esophogus, stomach, small and large intestine, etc).

Very helpful, thanks. Another question. Is this a good board, or know of a good, place for physiological discussions similar to this one? I don't want to throw out all this endocrine terminology if it's inappropriate here, but I'm seriously interested in that type of learning.

Okay, I discovered this after a bit of thorough researching. If someone finds it too technical and/or irrelevant I guess they can just delete this post, but I thought I'd share it anyways.


T4 (aka throxine, which, personally, like better because it sounds more formal and alludes to the chemical structure of the molecular hormone) and T3 (triiodothyronine) both get manufactured in and released from the thyroid. But the thyroid really just makes "one" hormone, thyroxine. There's 20x as much thyroxine in the blood because it's really just a diluted version of triiodothyronine (t3). In other words, t3 is very concentrated, very potent t4. When T4 gets stored in cells it frequently gets "shelved" as T3, but transforms into thyroxine in the blood stream to directly interact with metabolism.

Let me know if I'm way off here, or something..

However, I read that calcitonin (decreases blood calcium levels) also gets released from the thyroid from some sources. Is this accurate? It's safe to say that the thyroid is a thyroxine (t4) and triiodothyronine (t3) factory, but what's this bit about the thyroid release calcitonin, too?

I find endocrinology so fascinating because it’s the fusion of biology (gland, obviously) with chemistry (hormonal chemicals) with blood stream (circulation) and it effects all other bodily systems (respiratory, homeostatic, digestive, nervous, etc.). So it seems like if you learn about endocrinology, you, by nature, have to learn about the rest of the bodily systems. It seems like the common variable for the body.

I actually find it fascinating that as humans we dont' monitor our hormonal blood level content. Sure, the glands do this automatically for us, but it would be useful to know. Okay...that's it for my "Doctor Kooz" escapade in this thread atleast:)

Hi, Kooz...

I find the anatomical function of the human body fascinating, too. It is amazing how all the complex system come together.

It's safe to say that the thyroid is a thyroxine (t4) and triiodothyronine (t3) factory, but what's this bit about the thyroid release calcitonin, too?

The thyroid gland makes T3/T4, as well as calcitonin that combines with parathyroid hormone produced by the parathyroid glands which are attached to the thryroid gland. Parathyroid hormone and calcitonin control the amount of calcium contained in the blood. Inappropriate levels of calcium not only affect bone development but also the nervous system.

Interestingly, the synthetic drug to replace the thyroid's T3/T4, is actually only a T4 compound. I guess it doesn't make any sense to use both since one is only a more concentrated version of the other. Of course, blood tests are done periodically to make sure that the patient is being given the correct therapeutic dose.

I guess this is getting medically complex...but I have enjoyed the discourse.

N.

nymenche wrote:
The thyroid gland makes T3/T4, as well as calcitonin that combines with parathyroid hormone produced by the parathyroid glands which are attached to the thryroid gland. Parathyroid hormone and calcitonin control the amount of calcium contained in the blood. Inappropriate levels of calcium not only affect bone development but also the nervous system.

Very clarifying, nymenche, thanks for taking the time to nurture my interest in the endocrine system. But, so does parathyroid hormone decreause blood calcium levels with calcitonin increases calcium levels, kind of a on-off effect or does "calcitonin that combines with parathyroid hormone" mean that they combine kind of like like an enzymatic catalyst, which then alters calcium levels? Thanks for pointing out the impact on the NS with calcium, makes sense (with the process of a firing neuron and all the K+/Na+ pump, do the Ca+ ions that flow in and out of the axon membrane doorways to have a similar effect?)

Interestingly, the synthetic drug to replace the thyroid's T3/T4, is actually only a T4 compound. I guess it doesn't make any sense to use both since one is only a more concentrated version of the other. Of course, blood tests are done periodically to make sure that the patient is being given the correct therapeutic dose.

Only having a T4 drug compound would be practical if and only if the patient could adequately synthesis t3 from t4 and vice versa. If they lacked some enzyme (or whatever enables the concentrated form to bond into the less concentrated form), both forms sound like they'd be necessary.

I guess this is getting medically complex...but I have enjoyed the discourse.

And that is not a problem!
N.[/quote]

Hi Kooz,

does parathyroid hormone decreause blood calcium levels with calcitonin increases calcium levels, kind of a on-off effect or does "calcitonin that combines with parathyroid hormone" mean that they combine kind of like like an enzymatic catalyst, which then alters calcium levels?

The parathryoid gland acts as gage as the blood flows through it, and if the level of calcium is too low, the gland produces more parathyroid hormone (PTH) which circulates through the blood stream causing cells from other structures of the body (such as bones) to release calcium into to the blood stream. PTH can also affect the lining of the intestines allowing more calcium to be absorbed during the digestive process. Inversely, if the calcium level is too high, the parathyroid gland makes less PTH allowing more calcium absorption by the bones.

Calcitonin. produced by specific cells of the thyroid, is also released when calcium levels in the blood are too high. It inhibits the breakdown of calcium from the bones and works along with PTH to regulate the serum calcium level.

Only having a T4 drug compound would be practical if and only if the patient could adequately synthesis t3 from t4 and vice versa.

The typical protocol for thyroid hormone replacement is the synthetic form of T4 since it can be converted by the body into T3 when needed. It appears that this treatment is effective in most patients although there is a synthetic T3 available for use in some cases. For those who have problems with the synthetic hormones, a "natural" replacement T3 and T4 from dried pigs' thyroids can be used to replace the human hormones.

N.

Ahhh..I really like this thread. A lot of the other threads feel so emotionally-charged. this is refreshing.

nymenche wrote:Hi Kooz,

The parathryoid gland acts as gage as the blood flows through it, and if the level of calcium is too low, the gland produces more parathyroid hormone (PTH) which circulates through the blood stream causing cells from other structures of the body (such as bones) to release calcium into to the blood stream. PTH can also affect the lining of the intestines allowing more calcium to be absorbed during the digestive process. Inversely, if the calcium level is too high, the parathyroid gland makes less PTH allowing more calcium absorption by the bones.

Okay, thanks, that's very clarifying and well-written. That's fascinating that the parathyroid acts as a gauge through which blood flows and its calcium levels get measured. Thus, in regards to the parathyroid, the calcium levels are controlled entirely by the presence (or lack of ) PTH.

Calcitonin. produced by specific cells of the thyroid, is also released when calcium levels in the blood are too high. It inhibits the breakdown of calcium from the bones and works along with PTH to regulate the serum calcium level.

Okay calcitonin (causes calcium to be reabsorbed from blood) and PTH (causes calcium to be released INTO blood) have inverse effects but both aim to regulate the calcium levels. How is calcitonin regulated? The same parathyroid gauge?? or does the thyroid gauge the calcium levels and work it's magic with calcitonin seperately.

Only having a T4 drug compound would be practical if and only if the patient could adequately synthesis t3 from t4 and vice versa.

The typical protocol for thyroid hormone replacement is the synthetic form of T4 since it can be converted by the body into T3 when needed. It appears that this treatment is effective in most patients although there is a synthetic T3 available for use in some cases. For those who have problems with the synthetic hormones, a "natural" replacement T3 and T4 from dried pigs' thyroids can be used to replace the human hormones.

N.

Wow, that sounds horribly unhealthy (dired pigs' thyroids ?!! ) but....okaaayy. I just pictured a scenario where the patient couldn't synthesize t3 from t4 or something of the like. Thanks for clarifying that. So to verify:(HGH) t3, t4, and calcitonin, are the main hormones produces and released from the thyroid gland?