AsPD and Autism

katana wrote:
I could see how learning and being better at it could makes sense if you do it consciously. In some ways, maybe its just that people with AS need to learn to recognise things in a way that works better with systemising...? In the same sort of way i would say I'd think it would be possible for people with AsPD (if they want to,) to be more mindful of what they're doing and try to attach feelings to situations where they don't automatically feel them.

yeah, it's like putting facial/micro expressions, body posture and tone of voice into categories from experience and then using those categories to determine a logical explanation of what that person is actually saying - unfortunately, doing that and paying attention to what they're saying (which is often generic small talk and requires alot of concentration on it's own) at the same time becomes mentally exhausting after a while - i'd much rather walk around like a special needs chimp offending people with good intentions.

I don't see why not wanting to indulge social games has to be a problem if you explain that you have AS people should understand ? Not everyone has anything against straightforwardness.

it's not so much about having to explain - socialising is not a problem if i'm in good company, or company i don't care about. but "lying" (mountain out of a molehill, i know) makes me uncomfortable, especially when it's for the simple sake of being glib to soothe someones' ego. I think explaining the characteristics of aspergers to the average person would be an exercise in futility aswell, unless they were a close part of my life - people aren't that accepting of things they don't understand from my experience.

i'd be interested to hear an anti-social's opinion on causality and karma - or anyone that considers the consequences of their actions from a spiritual point of view.

In what way do you find they don't make sense?

It may be a bit difficult to explain. I'll try to use an example:

While I'm not a HPD, I know the traits these individuals have. I can process information about their dx in a following way: "HPDs desire this-this-and-that, so they engage in such-and-such behavior in order to obtain what they want. they are also hindered by this-and-this trait that they usually have, which they try to combat using such-and-such behavior."
So in essence, I understand their motives, desires and behavioral strategies, even though I do not share them.

With people with autism or asperger, it is difficult for me to understand their motives and the behavior they engage in rarely seems to help them get what they want.

There. Not shure If I managed to express myself in a clear and understanbale way.

Twist wrote:yeah, it's like putting facial/micro expressions, body posture and tone of voice into categories from experience and then using those categories to determine a logical explanation of what that person is actually saying - unfortunately, doing that and paying attention to what they're saying (which is often generic small talk and requires alot of concentration on it's own) at the same time becomes mentally exhausting after a while - i'd much rather walk around like a special needs chimp offending people with good intentions.

Lol at the chimp thing, but that actually sounds like pretty hard work and some multitasking too. Do the grey areas and mixes between different expressions of emotion make categorising tricky, or do you tend to find it works out ok? I guess there is also always the equivalent of "was that meant as - or - ?"

Twist wrote:it's not so much about having to explain - socialising is not a problem if i'm in good company, or company i don't care about. but "lying" (mountain out of a molehill, i know) makes me uncomfortable, especially when it's for the simple sake of being glib to soothe someones' ego. I think explaining the characteristics of aspergers to the average person would be an exercise in futility aswell, unless they were a close part of my life - people aren't that accepting of things they don't understand from my experience.

Yeah, unfortunately I know people can be unaccepting. I also find having to lie to people about what i'm thinking/feeling quite depressing, not because it bothers me that i am "lying" but because its really kinda $#%^. Some people on this forum will laugh, but at times when i have to be like that, i actually find it quite lonely. (yes, i don't need telling this is a screwed up irony because the reason for it all is because of the way i interact and don't interact emotionally with most people, lol.)

Twist wrote:i'd be interested to hear an anti-social's opinion on causality and karma - or anyone that considers the consequences of their actions from a spiritual point of view.

I've thought about it some... I can do with all the incentives I can get, lol. But the truth is, life shat on me before i had a chance to do anything "good" OR "bad". I was just a kid.

I tried it, and from my own experience, I've found what you could call "Karma" isn't like the justice system or something, its not about punishment and reward or anything like that. Its that what you get, is what you put effort into. If all you want is material possessions and excitement etc, "bad" pays.

If you want interpersonal connections and affection, you need to be able to give those to get them. (if you can't genuinely give them you get nothing out of them either, because when it comes to emotions, you gain nothing from what you can't connect with).

But being "good" could also be seen as being truthful, and maybe it is more honest of me to knock around with nutty open-minded people who don't like rules and don't mind me as i am, than try to befriend "normal" people and have to lie through my teeth to stop them getting the flaming torches out! So you could say, being true to yourself, and being honest in that way does "pay".

So does having a code of decency with your friends and those you work with - and expecting the same of them. I've seen so many people screwing each other over, over stupid silly little things (and i would say mostly not antisocials!) that at times its driven me batty! And it always comes back to bite all of them in the arse and creates all sorts of drama in their lives. But maybe they want that drama in their lives.

So in the end, i figure its about balance, and there is a lot of "you get what you ask for" meaning what you ask for with your actions. So yes, stuff does come back at you, but i don't think there is a hidden judge in the sky keeping score, but i do think if you bother paying attention, its all "teaching" us something.

But I tried Karma... in a sense, as above, yes. "what comes around goes around". but I can't say Karma on its own as people see it makes any sense. because I definitely didn't deserve what i got, there is no way i could have done. (logically i mean, unless you believe in past lives, and then wouldn't i just have ended up as an ant ?! )

So both yes and no.

Sabratha wrote:With people with autism or asperger, it is difficult for me to understand their motives and the behavior they engage in rarely seems to help them get what they want.

There. Not shure If I managed to express myself in a clear and understanbale way.

Yeah, you did explain it clearly, but i'm not sure i follow why AS would be harder to understand, because e.g. HPD behaviour often doesn't get them what they want either! I find it quite easy to see how Asperger behaviour makes sense after reading about some of the difficulties people with AS have.

From where I see it, people with AS will want some of the things NTs want, and some other more AS specific things too. The problems they have are as a result of things they have difficulty with for example, reading facial expressions, or understanding NT social interactions where they find it hard to decipher social expectations and interactions most people are aware of without thinking about.

I guess that is why straightforwardness appeals to Aspies, or even that anything that is not straightforwardness is difficult. I can relate to the idea personally, because I think it would be nice if people dropped all the social BS and just said what they think, i don't find it hard to figure out but it makes me and personally i like it when people give it to me straight, so maybe that helps me relate to that perspective better.

Iniquity wrote:I don't experience anxiety, but I do have some problems picking up on social cues at times or at least, I've been told I do anyway. I think the main reason for that is because I never think about what other people are thinking when I'm interacting with them and from what I've gathered, that's all part of understanding social cues.

i missed this earlier, but good point. you probably want to replace a certain amount of "what people are thinking" with "what people are feeling" I don't ignore people's thoughts in social situations, but inconsideration of feeling has got to be something a lot of people on this forum are prone to, and could have a similar affect - has anyone else ever been told they seem to have difficulty picking up social cues for this reason ?

katana wrote:Lol at the chimp thing, but that actually sounds like pretty hard work and some multitasking too. Do the grey areas and mixes between different expressions of emotion make categorising tricky, or do you tend to find it works out ok? I guess there is also always the equivalent of "was that meant as - or - ?"

personally i only find it difficult because of the multitasking. i'm still not completely adept at it tbh, i can read my friends very well and find drunk/inebriated people easier to read than a book, but someone i don't know really does require watching, listening, processing both of these senses in tandem and then also having to respond with the "appropriate" (i HATE this word ) feedback. when it comes to making educated guesses, (ie grey/mixed areas) i think that's more down to life experience that i just don't have yet.

a nice analogy i think would be that a NT brain starts picking up social propriety when they are very young (4ish?), but an autistic brain must realise it doesn't do this innately and in my case must teach itself from the point of realisation - or alternatively, most aspies probably don't start properly learning social nicities until their 20's, but they'll continue to perfect them for the rest of their life.

Yeah, unfortunately I know people can be unaccepting. I also find having to lie to people about what i'm thinking/feeling quite depressing, not because it bothers me that i am "lying" but because its really kinda $#%^. Some people on this forum will laugh, but at times when i have to be like that, i actually find it quite lonely. (yes, i don't need telling this is a screwed up irony because the reason for it all is because of the way i interact and don't interact emotionally with most people, lol.)

i used to argue face to face with teachers, adults or any other authority figure i could find because what they were saying was "wrong" (acceptable lie) and made my head assplode. learning to tell the truth in a nice way, even if the truth isn't nice, has been a saving grace for me .

So does having a code of decency with your friends and those you work with - and expecting the same of them. I've seen so many people screwing each other over, over stupid silly little things (and i would say mostly not antisocials!) that at times its driven me batty! And it always comes back to bite all of them in the arse and creates all sorts of drama in their lives. But maybe they want that drama in their lives.

So in the end, i figure its about balance, and there is a lot of "you get what you ask for" meaning what you ask for with your actions. So yes, stuff does come back at you, but i don't think there is a hidden judge in the sky keeping score, but i do think if you bother paying attention, its all "teaching" us something.

i tend to believe we are all our own god and define our own destiny and that if one believes their actions to be malicious, they are indeed malicious and that person must suffer the consequences of their actions eventually - whether they bring it about consciously or subconsciously is the question though.

But I tried Karma... in a sense, as above, yes. "what comes around goes around". but I can't say Karma on its own as people see it makes any sense. because I definitely didn't deserve what i got, there is no way i could have done. (logically i mean, unless you believe in past lives, and then wouldn't i just have ended up as an ant ?! )

personally i'm very open to the idea of reincarnation and the theory of time/space, but there's no real way to prove it. i had a very unhappy childhood, however, contrasted with how fantastically my life has turned around, i believe that said unhappiness is the reason for my current elation, because if i hadn't felt like killing myself because the world was just so wrong, i wouldn't have the grounded sense of selfawareness and introspection i have now - and i'd probably be a massive dickhead aswell - unhappiness humbles people xD

you summed it up with the word balance though, i wish i could sum stuff up ;o

Sabratha wrote:With people with autism or asperger, it is difficult for me to understand their motives and the behavior they engage in rarely seems to help them get what they want.

There. Not shure If I managed to express myself in a clear and understanbale way.

hmm i am happy you put it like that, i understand what you mean.

oddly, i pick people apart in the same way but only when they demonstrate things like unpredictable tempers or very obvious duplicity - basically anything that stands out that could pose a potential social problem and that i can't understand. bipolarity and narcissism are the only things i really notice though - i have been very curious about how AsPD think: i wasn't sure if they had a system based thought pattern or just a NT decision system that didn't account for others - now it appears that it's abit like a spiderweb of psychological jibba jabba xD

I guess that is why straightforwardness appeals to Aspies, or even that anything that is not straightforwardness is difficult. I can relate to the idea personally, because I think it would be nice if people dropped all the social BS and just said what they think

I don't think it would work well for a large non-family based society. Having everyone say what they think would probably cause a lot of violence and interpersonal conflict which would paralyze social groups, business organisations etc.

I think the whole system of "politeness', social taboos, customary greetings and apologies and so on is there precisely to minimize conflict and violence that would erupt as a result of frank displays of one's own opinion (especially if its a minority opinion).

It was hard to rate the answers to some of the questions, but here's my results.

Your score: 40
0 - 10 = low
11 - 22 = average (most women score about 15 and most men score about 17)
23 - 31 = above average
32 - 50 is very high (most people with Asperger Syndrome or high-functioning autism score about 35)
50 is maximum

I saw question 17(I enjoy social chit-chat.) and 38(I am good a social chit-chat.) as the same meaning in my head.

I got this as my final score:


Your score: 26
0 - 10 = low
11 - 22 = average (most women score about 15 and most men score about 17)
23 - 31 = above average
32 - 50 is very high (most people with Asperger Syndrome or high-functioning autism score about 35)
50 is maximum

Scored 14

I liked this test, because it made no sense. But then again, I don't know much about autism as far as what is in their mind. I was actually expecting a higher score than that, because my behavior may seem similar in many ways from outside. So I guess I must give a thumbs up to that test.

33 on the first quiz.

Your Aspie score: 138 of 200
Your neurotypical (non-autistic) score: 53 of 200
You are very likely an Aspie

I'm kind of lol'ing over the second one. The questions were a bit scary.

Autism Spectrum quotient
Your score: 33
0 - 10 = low
11 - 22 = average (most women score about 15 and most men score about 17)
23 - 31 = above average
32 - 50 is very high (most people with Asperger Syndrome or high-functioning autism score about 35)
50 is maximum

Aspie Quiz
Your Aspie score: 153 of 200
Your neurotypical (non-autistic) score: 67 of 200
You are very likely an Aspie

Though some of the behaviors sound familiar, most don't. I doubt it.