AsPD and The Genetic Link

5ive wrote:

Comingoutofmyshell wrote:Does it matter what kind of abuse? Is abuse simply abuse and equally wrong?

Of course it matters. Invalidating a child's feelings and neglecting their emotional needs is clearly on a different level than raping them in the closet or beating them with a wrench. Abuse is a spectrum; though, it's hard to say which ones have the most impact on the child's adult life.

Yeah exactly, just wondering if anyone had a difference of opinion.

jasmin wrote:

crystal_richardson wrote:Rot in prison bitch!

You've been put on the moderation preview, your posts will have to be approved by a mod before they show up on the forum.

WHAT!??! How long is this going to last??

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aZbta2BMFVQ&feature=youtube_gdata_player

crystal_richardson wrote:

jasmin wrote:

crystal_richardson wrote:Rot in prison bitch!

You've been put on the moderation preview, your posts will have to be approved by a mod before they show up on the forum.

WHAT!??! How long is this going to last??

We'll have to see. You insulted a poster directly.

Jessica, I'm sorry I insulted you. It's just.....you skipping my post was like what turned my day from already really bad to horrible..(you have no idea)

Please forgive me? Won't happen again, promise...

Yeah I would say there are varying types of abuse. I think people who get put down constantly by parents suffer from low self esteem (I have a friend like this) . I don't know if they would necessarily experience trauma, though . It's actually kind of hard for me to sit there and listen to people put themselves down. I want to just tell them to stop being stupid and I get tired of trying to step around the issue and just listen to it. At least I do , though and don't tell them to shut up.

It seems like , though, that people have a sense of responsibilty. Like you know you brought the kid into the world so you're dealing with it type thing the best you can. You know you should love and take care of them so to speak.

Back on the topic of the thread: What do you guys think of the 'experts'' stance on the issue with regard to AsPD and genetics? They say there is no evidence that abuse, negative circumstances, paps leaving...any of that is implicated in the genesis of psychopathy, that all that is needed for guiltlessness and lack of emotionality is present in the psychopath at birth. That means, the essence of psychopathy is either genetic or biological in origin (biological...as in like external factors from conception to birth, like what Simon Attwood was talking about).

Too put this as clearly as possible: If you've EVER experienced guilt in your whole life, even when you were a kid...before your abuse/negative circumstances/paps leaving...during your abuse/negative circumstances/paps leaving...or after your abuse/negative circumstances/paps leaving...you can't be a psychopath. It seems all there factors merely predispose you to a socially deviant lifestyle - they explain nothing regarding your "unemotionality" or "lack of remorse". THIS IS HUGE! I never even knew this. I seriously thought up until I read these findings that abuse, etc, if bad enough was sufficient to produce the interpersonal and affective dimensions of psychopathy (lack of remorse, unemotionality, etc) but they do nothing!

Thoughts? I just think this is so significant...maybe I'm over reacting, but it seems so significant to everything we've been discussing for like...ever..on this forum.

crystal_richardson wrote:They say there is no evidence that abuse, negative circumstances, paps leaving...any of that is implicated in the genesis of psychopathy, that all that is needed for guiltlessness and lack of emotionality is present in the psychopath at birth.

psychopathic tendencies are genetic and present from birth. However, the sadism is learned.

in my opinion, sadism can only be learned as a young child via by close observation of a sadist. usually the child is the victim and the sadist is a parent. when this occurs as the fear center is developing, the ability of the child to sense 'emotions' in others allows him to see the parent deriving pleasure through the child's pain (parent is a sadist), and I believe that this causes the developing fear center to be 'rewired' in the child such that it triggers the pleasure center instead of the humor center which is what 'should' be triggered in those with 'standard fear center disorder' (psychopathic tendency but lacking sadistic urges).

a psychopath without the sadism may have little problem navigating society, and may live a comfortable life using his skills in service to a corporate master.

just a hypothesis.

some evidence:
"Positive pictures included images such as happy couples, puppies, food such as ice cream, and others. Neutral images included, for example, buildings, a black book, and a fork. Negative pictures included threatening animals or faces, heavily wounded persons, and skull and bones...

Prefrontal regions are directly connected with subcortical structures of the limbic system (Damasio et al 2000). In this neural circuit, frontal regions are supposed to modulate or inhibit amygdala-driven responses and may, thus, provide top-down control of the amygdala (Herpetz et al 2001a; Morgan et al 1993; Paradiso et al 1999). In relation to control subjects, the current study on
psychopathy shows increased activation in orbitofrontal and dorsolateral prefrontal regions, right amygdala, and right insula through negative pictures."
http://www.christofflab.ca/pdfs/2009/01/sdarticle.pdf

YOu always have good info to supply, marycarter.

You don't necessarily have to murder to be a psychopath then. Or at least to be antisocial. You can just step on people without guilt to get to the top, or just step on anyone in general.

Every antisocial is different in ways and not everyone of them always wants to kill someone. I guess.

crystal_richardson wrote: They say there is no evidence that abuse, negative circumstances, paps leaving...any of that is implicated in the genesis of psychopathy, that all that is needed for guiltlessness and lack of emotionality is present in the psychopath at birth. That means, the essence of psychopathy is either genetic or biological in origin (biological...as in like external factors from conception to birth, like what Simon Attwood was talking about).

Twisted, ever so slightly

periods from conception to birth can also experience "negative circumstance" (external factors). a pregnant mother who at any time during gestation suffers stress, passes on cortisol to the developing foetus through the umbilical cord. Cortisol stalls development in all areas, both physiologically and mentally. And cortisol, once it passes the blood brain barrier, damages brain cells. The blood brain barrier is weak in infants, and stress weakens it further. This fact so often gets overlooked in the argument for genetic/biological versus nurture debate.

Do you know what the most traumatic experience is for an infant? It's not neglect, sexual abuse, parental conflicts, abandonment. It's birth, birth is an incredibly traumatic experience for a baby. The most natural of processes through which we all enter this world.

Imagine for a moment, spending 9 months (9 months is an eternity to a foetus) getting to know your world, your environment. and then being thrust out in to a completely unknown world that you are not prepared for.