Victim of APD Male -6 years

Is there anyone reading this who has split from an APD partner and is happier and getting ahead?

I have recently split (again!!). We never were able to ahndle living together. He now has his own place and has taken the opportunity of using this to try and play mind games with me. Enough was enough. The hurts were endless. He was constanntly taking off. Being committed to the relationship one minute then the next saying he won't be in a relationship until he has himself 'sorted'. And he only meant this in a financial way because he only cares about money and material things.

His lying he would blame on me because of my 'reactions to the truth'. Well the way I see it just don't do the things you may end up lying about because you obviously shouldn't be doing this in the first place. Nuh!

I have had six years of hell. Especially mental and emotional abuse. He would alternate from being loving, productive and always at home etc to being completely self-absorbed and doing what ever he wanted and making sure that I could not get hold of him. My distress seemed to equal that I loved him or something.

He has destroyed that love. I am not in love with him anymore although still feel love. Its hard to be in love when you want to throttle someone for all the frustration and pain they give you.

The lies were incredible - even faking counselling appointments - going off for a couple of hours and then coming home and relaying what was happening at the session. That was until the counsellor rung to schedule the first session and I answered the phone!!

He would wonder why I would end up kicking him out. When he would bring objectional material into the house sneakily while I was at work. Iwould find out and he would continue to lie about it until he realised he was cornered then I would be accused of being snealy and underhand by not just straight out saying what I had found but instead I gave him the opportunity to tell the truth! Which he never took!

We have tried living together about 10 to 15 times in six years. It has taken its toll and there is zero security for either of us.

I crave normality and have pretty much forgotten what that feels like! And there seems to be very little help out there.

Thriver

Thriver, there are many support networks for people who have suffered the way you have. I could steer you toward a few if you'd like. You mentioned seeing a counselor, have you done so individually? I think it is important that the inner self becomes repaired. This is where the hurt lies. We accept pain for ourselves. Lots of underlying reasons why. Get to knowing and understanding your weaknesses and do not let them be used against you. Find a way to be strong and move on. I believe there is ability for some to change their ways. This does not mean they are able/willing to change who they are. And who wants to live a lie? Why would you want some to? There are plenty of individuals on the planet who will naturally fit and assume a role you might want them to play. The sociopath will never change for anyone, and certainly not because of anyone. Though they will have you believing different.

I read your reply. Thanks.

I am seeing a counsellor but any other support will be good, however I live in New Zealand so I don't know what you can do for me.

My ex lives 3 mins walk around the corner and it takes a lot of will power not to go round there and give him what for. He never comes to me and it hurts so much. If he does come to me it is on some pretext in the hope that we will get back together.

He made alot of changes while we were together. In regards to his marijuana use, X-rated addiction, money, work habits, the way he treated my kids.

I have 3 children from my past marriage. I'm not sure about this 'fill a role?' comment you made. Most people I know have relationships that follow a progression. eg get to know each other and friends, family, live together or get engaged married have children or plan to or not to etc. Our relationship never took the course I naievely thought it would when we met.

The lies started immediately and the last one was only weeks ago. He blames his lying on me. The problems set in 3 months into the relationship. Now I feel somewhat hardened and numb.

Are you aware that some people with APD remiss as they get older eg behaviours change (the front lobes of the brain start to develope). My ex is one of these but I still always felt I as playing a waiting game and never really getting there. He never gave me full committment.

A big part of me still wants to try but how does anyone get over SO MANY HURTS, let alone getting him to get help, take responsibility for himself, stop blaming me, see what work needs to be done.

I believe he loves me as much as he is able but that a lot of the changes he made were not to benefit me but him eg I made it so uncomfortable for him when he did wrong. I think he resents me and feels controlled and was always saying ' you just want it all your own way'. Blimin heck I NEVER HAD IT MY WAY! I just wanted normality and to be able to relax.

Does anyone have further advice or can associate with any of this.

Thanks

Thriver

Hello Thriver

Are you aware that some people with APD remiss as they get older eg behaviours change (the front lobes of the brain start to develope). My ex is one of these but I still always felt I as playing a waiting game and never really getting there. He never gave me full committment.

Yes, and like you I believe the reactions and transmissions (or lack there of) are the key to this. It is a touchy subject with those who are affected however. As far as the remiss, I see it more as a burn out stage. The body wears out and the person becomes bored. I think it is more like accepting that there is nothing left to stimulate the need for thrill. The research I have done, I have not come accross anything scientific stating that emotions begin to develop or simply show themselves. It would be nice if someone affected could comment.


Did your ex tell you he had APD/ASPD, diagnosed with such or as socio/psycho path? Many people are just not capable of committing. I was not trying to be harsh. I just think it something you have to accept. You cannot change someone else. No matter who they are, they must first change for themself. Most sociopaths see nothing wrong with their behavior. They may be telling you otherwise to string you along (for whatever reason). Also, I have come to believe that the Sociopath, at some point, on some level, wants to have a relationship with another, only of a different nature. As much as some would like to change him/her to 'fit' what is considered 'norm', possibly that person is looking for the same, only what he/she is comfortable with. It is natural for homosapien to act on instincts. The only mate for a sociopath is one who is capable and strong enough to overlook what most consider serious and haynous offense and be content with that. No emotions involved. It would be very difficult to find such a person. Maybe someone who chooses to live in a fantasy and will never doubt or falsely accuse him/her of lies or deceipt. Just accepts. The problem is, choosing anyone with the ability to sense, feel or love will eventually and naturally want/need more. That is why they try to invent it. They take the loving, caring, sensitive, compassionate, nurturing, loyal, honest and trustworthy and try to reshape and mold them to fit their needs. Because honestly, what would you, the kind of person that you are, not give for love?

I'm not sure about this 'fill a role?' comment you made. Most people I know have relationships that follow a progression. eg get to know each other and friends, family, live together or get engaged married have children or plan to or not to etc. Our relationship never took the course I naievely thought it would when we met.

In that I mean, as you state, the relationship you seek is one that follows a natural progression, for yourself. And also you say, most people you know. This is the 'norm' for you, but not he. You will never get that from him. It is not a natural progression for him. It has nothing to do with you. It is about him.

A big part of me still wants to try but how does anyone get over SO MANY HURTS, let alone getting him to get help, take responsibility for himself, stop blaming me, see what work needs to be done.

Why? Really.. ask yourself why? Why should you forgive..again, make him get help that he doesn't want. He is 34 years old? He is a grown man who knows who he is. He should be capable of getting help for himself if he chooses. 6 years? What has he done for you? for your children? to prove that he is worthy of what you want and need?

I believe he loves me as much as he is able but that a lot of the changes he made were not to benefit me but him eg I made it so uncomfortable for him when he did wrong.

So you are supposed to be overlooking the pain he consistantly inflicts upon you? That is your fault? I would say he is right if you choose and allow this for yourself. It is the only life you will know with this man. It is a worthless investment, unless you are in it only for him and not you and not your children. Love. What does love mean to you? I can watch someone on tv say it and it makes me weep. Why? They are playing a role, there is no love there. Yet they have managed to make me feel/believe it. This is what the Sociopath does. He/She can make you feel so much love yourself that it blinds you to the fact that they are incapable of feeling any. It is intoxicating like a drug. When you give love to someone else they must be receiving of it. Your love will not help him, you see? It is very hard to release this person because of this. It seems that they are capable and possibly they are, but only they would know. You can only assume that he will change. How could he prove it? What could he do to prove that he has changed to become the person you want him to be? Would you trust it? Has he asked you to change for him? Would you? Better yet, could you? Could you give up your ideas, ideals, beliefs and feelings...all that is core and instinctual simply for him? I think you would agree with me that it shouldn't be so difficult. It should be natural and real. It can be, just not with him. And yes, I know how you feel. It hurts huh? Hurts that part of you, like death does..

Hello Thriver

Are you aware that some people with APD remiss as they get older eg behaviours change (the front lobes of the brain start to develope). My ex is one of these but I still always felt I as playing a waiting game and never really getting there. He never gave me full committment.

Yes, and like you I believe the reactions and transmissions (or lack there of) are the key to this. It is a touchy subject with those who are affected however. As far as the remiss, I see it more as a burn out stage. The body wears out and the person becomes bored. I think it is more like accepting that there is nothing left to stimulate the need for thrill. The research I have done, I have not come accross anything scientific stating that emotions begin to develop or simply show themselves. It would be nice if someone affected could comment.


Did your ex tell you he had APD/ASPD, diagnosed with such or as socio/psycho path? Many people are just not capable of committing. I was not trying to be harsh. I just think it something you have to accept. You cannot change someone else. No matter who they are, they must first change for themself. Most sociopaths see nothing wrong with their behavior. They may be telling you otherwise to string you along (for whatever reason). Also, I have come to believe that the Sociopath, at some point, on some level, wants to have a relationship with another, only of a different nature. As much as some would like to change him/her to 'fit' what is considered 'norm', possibly that person is looking for the same, only what he/she is comfortable with. It is natural for homosapien to act on instincts. The only mate for a sociopath is one who is capable and strong enough to overlook what most consider serious and haynous offense and be content with that. No emotions involved. It would be very difficult to find such a person. Maybe someone who chooses to live in a fantasy and will never doubt or falsely accuse him/her of lies or deceipt. Just accepts. The problem is, choosing anyone with the ability to sense, feel or love will eventually and naturally want/need more. That is why they try to invent it. They take the loving, caring, sensitive, compassionate, nurturing, loyal, honest and trustworthy and try to reshape and mold them to fit their needs. Because honestly, what would you, the kind of person that you are, not give for love?

I'm not sure about this 'fill a role?' comment you made. Most people I know have relationships that follow a progression. eg get to know each other and friends, family, live together or get engaged married have children or plan to or not to etc. Our relationship never took the course I naievely thought it would when we met.

In that I mean, as you state, the relationship you seek is one that follows a natural progression, for yourself. And also you say, most people you know. This is the 'norm' for you, but not he. You will never get that from him. It is not a natural progression for him. It has nothing to do with you. It is about him.

A big part of me still wants to try but how does anyone get over SO MANY HURTS, let alone getting him to get help, take responsibility for himself, stop blaming me, see what work needs to be done.

Why? Really.. ask yourself why? Why should you forgive..again, make him get help that he doesn't want. He is 34 years old? He is a grown man who knows who he is. He should be capable of getting help for himself if he chooses. 6 years? What has he done for you? for your children? to prove that he is worthy of what you want and need?

I believe he loves me as much as he is able but that a lot of the changes he made were not to benefit me but him eg I made it so uncomfortable for him when he did wrong.

So you are supposed to be overlooking the pain he consistantly inflicts upon you? That is your fault? I would say he is right if you choose and allow this for yourself. It is the only life you will know with this man. It is a worthless investment, unless you are in it only for him and not you and not your children. Love. What does love mean to you? I can watch someone on tv say it and it makes me weep. Why? They are playing a role, there is no love there. Yet they have managed to make me feel/believe it. This is what the Sociopath does. He/She can make you feel so much love yourself that it blinds you to the fact that they are incapable of feeling any. It is intoxicating like a drug. When you give love to someone else they must be receiving of it. Your love will not help him, you see? It is very hard to release this person because of this. It seems that they are capable and possibly they are, but only they would know. You can only assume that he will change. How could he prove it? What could he do to prove that he has changed to become the person you want him to be? Would you trust it? Has he asked you to change for him? Would you? Better yet, could you? Could you give up your ideas, ideals, beliefs and feelings...all that is core and instinctual simply for him? I think you would agree with me that it shouldn't be so difficult. It should be natural and real. It can be, just not with him. And yes, I know how you feel. It hurts huh? Hurts that part of you, like death does..

oops, sorry about that. If only I was a member....

I sat down for ages and typed a reply and then lost my connection.

Well anyway.

My ex did make substantial changes during the six years (or I believe he did!). However I always felt that I was still playing a waiting game. Waiting for change? Waiting for committment. He was always more concerned with seeing to his own needs and anything he did for me and my kids it felt like he was holding out a lollipop or something and he always wanted acknowledgement and appreciation for anything he did. (Which was usually to pay for something because the way he thought of contributing was financial only).

I would talk to him about his behaviours and at times he would see his wrong (or seem to) and agree that something had to stop, then weeks or months down the track he would repeat the behaviour and either be pissed off thinking that I am trying to control him and should just accept him how he is and if I won't then leave. Or he would say he forgot our agreement or that he acted on impulse. A myriad of excuses - each time a different one so I felt confused and like I was getting nowhere.

He has alternated over the years with "I can't and don't want to live without you" expressing deep and eternal love for me and being the complete opposite " Why shouldn't I make myself happy first?" "I need to sort myself(financially/materialistically) before I can even think of having a relationship."

And the lies. Lies Lies Lies. And he has always blamed me because of "Your reaction to the truth". He has gone along for weeks months staing that he has completely stopped lying to me and then I will uncover another lie that has been happening all along.

So it's looking like I have been strung along. The thing now is that I don't really think he stopped to think about the effect of all his games on me. That I am no longer in love with him but still love him. How can you be in love with someone when there is so much worry, anger and distress?? Its not possible. I don't think he realised that he might take all the game playing to far and it would backfire on him and I would end the relationship.

He seemed rather shocked when I told him the love was gone because of everything he has done. After all in recent weeks he had been saying to me that "I can't be that bad or you wouldn't of stayed with me so long' He is adamant that he treats me well. HA What A joke!

He thinks because he does not beat me that he treats me well.

Thriver

Hi Thriver
I seem to be having the same nightmare that you are having. At first when i found this site i posted on the compulsive lieing board but since reading some messages on this ASB board, especially yours i think this is more how he behaves. ( have a look at my post on there it will save me going through all the details here )
I have been seeing this guy for 5yrs and iam now at my wits end i cannot go on anymore as i now fear for my own health , i really need to get him out off my life somehow but god knows how.
I know what you mean when you say he blames you for the lies ect i get it all the time and he is even got me thinking maybe its my fault HA ( he is very good at manipulation )
I know this is'nt true but he seems to have me on a string.
I loved him deeply at one time but now he has chipped away at it so much that i am now confussed about my feelings for him.
He has lied so much about stupid things and when i confront him about it he shouts at me and blatently denies it even when i have the proof he will find an answer to get out off it.
He is also very irresponsable and insecure and blames me for his insecurities LOL.
He also does things like when he has been found out he will ignore his phone , text messages , ect its like he wants me to chase after him and tell him its ok.
Last wk he told a friend off mine a pack off lies and when i confronted him about it he called the friend a lier i said she couldnt have lied as she wouldnt have any idea about the things she had relayed to me unless he had told her, he said he was going to see her about it , he got back to me and told me he had seen her ( he didnt ) but this was just to make me think he had'nt been lieing.
Iam now 43 and would like to be with somebody who i can rely on now, it wont be him as 5yrs is enough to prove to me that he could be responsable but its just not going to happen , i have fallen out with him at the momment and iam going to try and be strong this time but he keeps texting me with messages off his undying love for me ect & telling me that iam not perfect , i know iam not but at least iam honest and have some morals , i also dont know what normality is anymore and i have became very suspicious off everyone and cant imagine trusting anybody ever again.
I have lost many friends over the years thanks to him , my 13yr old daughter is always telling me that i can do better than him , he is jealous off the attention i bestow on her , he has to be centre off attention if he is'nt he will go to any lenghths to get it which usually manefests itself in huge whopping lies.
I hope to here back from you maybe we can help eachother
mags x

OH MY GOD!!!!!!

You have been living my life.

He does EXACTLY the same thing. We have recently broken it off again! Now he has come over when I am not home and swept up all my leaves and left me firewood.

He does the same thing when found out. Tries to yell into me so to speak, to override and down trod me. He also takes off switches his phone off ignores letters and text you name it!! He too wants me to come after him and I feel gets and wants a sense of power from that. They believe they are intrinsically weak after all!

I have 3 kids (not his) a 14 year old daughter, a nearly 12 year old daughter and a nine year old son. I am 31 years old and met him when I was 25.

The lies are unbelievable ( in more ways than one). I to fear for my health, feel worn down, get bad skin and hair, have paranoia, digestive problems because of the stress etc.

I think it is paramount to just switch off at least for a while and focus on yourself, your inner peace, give yourself a health retreat in your own home so to speak. Definately get some support through counselling or similar.

Has there ever been violence, have you ever been through a 'crazy' stage of totally acting out from his crap?? I did but have stopped myself now. NEVER let another human being change who you are even if you dearly love them. Keep yourself in all your dealings and if they want to take off and lie let them go I reckon. What is the worst that can happen if you don't go after him and if you make a committment to yourself not to get pulled into his games.

I myself am sick of his games and don't really see him finding any other way to try and relate except through power tactics. Don't they see that every time you come after them it is out of your distress not your love??

I will help you however I can. I will check my computor most days and I will be away this weekend but will check it when I get home. I live in New Zeakand by the way. I will look for that site you mentioned. I think you mean it is also in psych forums so I will check there first.

You can trust others just not those with this disorder and if you do make a total break theres not much chance you will get involved with someone who has it bcause you will know what to look out for. Do you or have you lived together? What is he like with money? What are the repetitive things that he lies about? I am pretty sure he lies about the same things over and over right? Has he been diagnosed or ever had any help?

Think about the hooks that he uses to try and pull you back in if you seem to be making a break. eg with my ex is the firewood just a ploy or is it genuine? If you decide you want to try again think about what your terms will be. Like my ex he may agree to them and then renege at a later date. I'm thinking if he wants me back I will see him once a week at a counsellors office until some help for him is in place and he shows me what he is prepared to do.

Don't let him play cat and mouse with you. Just be calm and live your daily life. You can do it. Be normal don't let him change you or stress you. Like I said whats the worst that can happen if he leaves you for someone else well more fool them and better now than later.

I think maybe they think you love is shown by coming after them. How do you want to show your love? If you still do at all?

Talk soon

thriver

Thriver
You and me are the same lol i cant believe it but it is refreshing to know that iam not the only one who has this nightmare going on although i dont wish it on my worst enemy.
My posts are on this web site on the compulsive liars you will find them there although i think the lieing is a throw back from anti social behaviour.
Ohh yes i can relate to the brushing up you leaves ect i get all this done for me and more and thats what messes up my head....how can a guy be that caring and helpfull and loving then go and tell you a load off crap ???? i hope somebody can come along and tell me before i myself go mad.
He once was on his little "nobody cares about me" episodes when i got a text from him telling me that he had takin an overdose !!! i thought this cant be true but didnt want to take the risk off not believing him sooooo i decided to call the paramedics and told them my concerns and a bit about his character they said they will have to act on it so they went to his flat , he must have seen the ambulance from his window so he decided not to open the door when they knocked , but they burst his door in and guess what .........yep he hadnt takin an overdose at all.
How bad is that ? dont they take anybodys feelings into consideration.
Only last wk he went and got his tonsils out i knew he would milk it for everything he could.....so sure enough he told me the hospital was treating him for throat cancer . i called the hospital and told them my sittuation and although they obviously couldnt disclose personal info they told me that he had no other appointments at the hospital that he had his tonsils out and everything went well.
There has never been violance but i have seen evil in his eyes which is very scary this is normally when he has been found out and instead off putting his hands up and admiting it he sort off turns it round on me and gets very angry usually storms out in a very big huff like a child scorned & leaves me feeling sorry for him he is very manipulative and although he didnt do well in school with education and he is always saying he is stupid i wonder if this is so as i am not a stupid woman but he can fool anybody

Iam sick off the mind games too thriver it just drags me down i also think he gets some sort off kick out off it, i dont know its like he is seeing how much he can get away with and he just keeps pushing & pushing , do they want to be found out ? are they dissapointed when we believe the lies ? i mean does he lie then say to himself she believed that one so i will go for a bigger one now ? untill i think this cant be true then its confrontational time then he gets a kick out off trying to prove me wrong.
Does that make sense to you ?
Are you out off it thriver ? if so you maybe can help me to get out off it to be strong and not take the bait.
thanks
mags x