Questions that only a sociopath / borderline could answer...

Sunlight_hurts wrote:By definition.. if a psychopath felt guilt, it would disable them from doing.. anything really. Even the most simple of manipulations would bother them, leading to errors further down the road, etc.. etc. Oh wait.. a psychopath who feels guilt is.. oh whats the word... on the tip of my tongue...






Normal? Yes, that's it.

Normal? What, that term? Being used in a discussion? My my, it's.. It's a scarce term.

Mike777 wrote:

PhoenixTrue wrote:

en_causa_sui wrote: There's no such thing as a psychopath that feels guilt

I would not be so sure. I think it depends on what definition we assign to guilt. If by guilt you mean that one does something, and then feels deep down that they are less of a person for doing it, and they want to try to never do it again so as to protect their ego from disappointment, then perhaps you are right. However, if you mean guilt as in feeling like you messed up on something, like you did not get something you wanted because you did this or that, and you feel like you should have known better, then I believe a psychopath can feel that.

That's self pity, not guilt. There's a huge difference. Guilt is rooted in the sense of responsibility both to others and for the consequences of your actions. Neither of those are natural for a stereotypical psychopath. However self pity which is more of a narcissistic and immediate emotion would be.

Okay, then please give me a good description of what guilt is that is not so general. Are you saying that guilt must involve hating an element of yourself?

Mike777 wrote:Okay, then please give me a good description of what guilt is that is not so general. Are you saying that guilt must involve hating an element of yourself?

If anything, it must involve another person. There has to be something you've done, to someone or somthing else, that makes you feel "bad". Anything to do with purely you is self-pity.


Examples; Self pity: You fail a test because you got super drunk instead of studying for it, and feel "Down" about yourself because you know you could have aced it.

Guilt: You steal a package from someones mailbox that has a new, 200$ digital camera in it. Initially, you are thinking "Sweet, a new camera" but somewhere along the line, you realise that someone has just been outted 200$ for no apparent reason that they can think of, and as such, you start to feel awful about it, what did they ever do to you? You may even feel bad enough to return it, or send them money or something to "compensate" in order to appease your conscience.

Essentially, guilt is what you're supposed to feel when you break your societies "Moral and ethical code", in the simplest terms.

Mike777 wrote:Okay, then please give me a good description of what guilt is that is not so general. Are you saying that guilt must involve hating an element of yourself?

"Guilt is a cognitive or an emotional experience that occurs when a person realises or believes--accurately or not--that they have violated a moral standard, and bear sole responsibility for that violation." Yes, I just quoted Wikipedia. I like this particular definition. The reason a psychopath cannot feel guilt is because they have no interest in or only a very vague understanding of "morality" and social right/wrong. If a person has no moral compass then a violation of morals means nothing.

Sometimes guilt comes with a self-hatred if that sense of responsibility is strong enough or if the violation is strong enough. I don't know if it requires it.

In a sense then, if you use Maslow's hiearchy of needs thing, then the psychopath would be at the top of the pyramid as he/she recognizes that all law and social customs are man-made and therefore open to interpretation. Of course, this leaves out religion as I beleive that someone could easily believe in God, wish to follow commandments found in the Bible or Koran, but feel absolutely no obligation to society's laws if they do not conform to those of the scriptural text.

Also, you seem to be saying that a person needs to "hurt" for there to be guilt -- but that hurt would not really be empathy, but more sympathy/pity for victims. So if a teenager steals a traffic sign to decorate their room, and someone gets severely injured because the sign was missing, then the psychopath can fell both anger at the city workers for not replacing the sign, feel bad (pity) for the victim, but not feel remorse (personal pain) for actually being the one who stole the sign?

Mike777 wrote:In a sense then, if you use Maslow's hiearchy of needs thing, then the psychopath would be at the top of the pyramid as he/she recognizes that all law and social customs are man-made and therefore open to interpretation. Of course, this leaves out religion as I beleive that someone could easily believe in God, wish to follow commandments found in the Bible or Koran, but feel absolutely no obligation to society's laws if they do not conform to those of the scriptural text.

Also, you seem to be saying that a person needs to "hurt" for there to be guilt -- but that hurt would not really be empathy, but more sympathy/pity for victims. So if a teenager steals a traffic sign to decorate their room, and someone gets severely injured because the sign was missing, then the psychopath can fell both anger at the city workers for not replacing the sign, feel bad (pity) for the victim, but not feel remorse (personal pain) for actually being the one who stole the sign?

Why would they feel bad for the victim? Why would they care that the sign wasn't replaced? That incident would be completely separate from the sign being stolen as a psychopath wouldn't connect it as their fault. The incident would be the city's fault for not replacing the sign. There would be no anger or pity. They might find it amusing.

Now if the psychopath stole the sign (which would be pointless but ok, we'll go with it) and then while driving got into an accident at the same stop, there might be anger. The city didn't replace the sign so their property was damaged. It wouldn't matter who took the sign. If the psychopath got caught for taking the sign, then there'd be self pity because they'd get in trouble, not because stealing is illegal.

A normal person feels bad about stealing because stealing is illegal and thus "wrong". A psychopath feels bad about getting caught for stealing because it's inconvenient and costly.

kanin wrote:That incident would be completely separate from the sign being stolen as a psychopath wouldn't connect it as their fault. The incident would be the city's fault for not replacing the sign.

Where did you get the idea that they wouldn't connect it as their fault? Most psychopaths are well aware who's fault it is for the damage they do but when confronted by it they will try to evade responsibility for it. Like you said, because it would be costly for them.

inossak wrote:

kanin wrote:That incident would be completely separate from the sign being stolen as a psychopath wouldn't connect it as their fault. The incident would be the city's fault for not replacing the sign.

Where did you get the idea that they wouldn't connect it as their fault? Most psychopaths are well aware who's fault it is for the damage they do but when confronted by it they will try to evade responsibility for it. Like you said, because it would be costly for them.

Well of course they would know it was their fault, but they wouldn't feel responsible. Bad choice of wording, I guess.

kanin wrote:

inossak wrote:

kanin wrote:That incident would be completely separate from the sign being stolen as a psychopath wouldn't connect it as their fault. The incident would be the city's fault for not replacing the sign.

Where did you get the idea that they wouldn't connect it as their fault? Most psychopaths are well aware who's fault it is for the damage they do but when confronted by it they will try to evade responsibility for it. Like you said, because it would be costly for them.

Well of course they would know it was their fault, but they wouldn't feel responsible. Bad choice of wording, I guess.

They wouldn't feel responsible because they don't care Great, we agree then.