Neuroticism and psychopathy

I called my aspd brother neurotic once.

He threw a hot iron at my head.

It missed of course.

Reaper wrote:

ZeroZ wrote:unwittingly speak the ancient enchantment of boogie boogie

Well, that explains why my life is so fuked up...

Sorry to be the one to tell you.

justonemoreperson wrote:@OP

I think neurotic people might want to come across as psychopaths; it would certainly act as a shield, but I think the narcissism that comes with psychopathy might present as similar to that of your general narc, but is quite different.

Makes sense.

"General" narcissism is also a shield; it's an attempt to find validation in adoration from others. Whereas the narcissism from psychopathy is the opposite; a lack of care in others and low interest in their reaction, so self-focus is the natural result.

What if it's the other way around? Is that the distinction between psychopath and malignant narc?

solemnlysworn wrote:

vcrpamphlet wrote:

solemnlysworn wrote:Who said that psychopaths are not neurotic?

The article you posted shows their neuroticism is controlled such that it's not a definable part of their person (not in intense enough a manner to be brought up socially), so you kind of answered your own question here.

Studies on psychopathy often demonstrate neurotic traits. High scorers on Factor 2 of PCL will often have higher neuroticism.

I think you're trying to misconstrue me on purpose. To re-quote the study:

Higher levels of neuroticism were associated with higher PCL scores, in both CSOs and CTLs [..] higher levels of psychopathy co-occur with higher levels of neuroticism, but psychopathy does apparently not modulate abusive behavior, at least not in low risk offenders, as currently investigated.

Was talking about the ncbi study, not the sex offender one. What do you think can be gleamed about psychopaths from a study of sex offenders?

Factor 2s have higher neuroticism - not interested in factor 2s.

vcrpamphlet wrote:The moral/unmoral stimuli stuff is subset to the main point, and not sure what you're talking about.

Yes, though the study explicitly makes a connection between neuroticism and psychopathy and I'm not sure what you're not seeing. I make a concession in my original post by explaining that actually maybe the big 5 misidentifies traits that should be put under agreeableness, trying to be kind to your theory.

Re: the ncbi study? It's not making the connection you're suggesting. They tested the neural correlates, but those correlates weren't co-existent in each participant, there was a scale between high neuroticism and traits like coldheartedness across the group, and results showed neurotics were unable to manage their emotional responses to unpleasant stimuli as effectively as higher psychopathic trait scorers were; it's specific to traits as they occur, not co-occur, the results say the same thing Reaper did, basically.

That sentence mentioning Big Five in the OP was copy+pasted from the article quoted. Wasn't meaning to link anything to Big Five theory. Be kind to it if you feel the need.

During active attempts to decrease emotional responses to unpleasant pictures, superior and ventrolateral prefrontal activity was positively correlated with psychopathy, but not with neuroticism

vcrpamphlet" wrote:^Bolded part is explaining how psychopaths weren't neurotic at all: they had "superior and ventrolateral prefrontal activity" which was absent in neurotic people.

I also think that you misread this. This was related to the moral stimuli in particular and showed that people low on neuroticism but not psychopathy did not module the same way.

Nope. The study shows a negative correlation not the positive one like you seem to think. Has both traits in its focus, but whether they're co-morbid isn't relevant to the study.

dobiedobiedoo wrote:Across samples of adolescents, measures of psychopathy appear more selectively associated with high neuroticism (e.g., angry hostility, vulnerability, depression).
Some researchers claim Psychopathy is not a monolithic disorder, but it is a confluence of several different personality traits that reflect differing levels of disinhibition, boldness, and meanness. Some scientific findings also suggest that a sizable subgroup of juvenile and adult offenders labeled as psychopathic are actually more emotionally disturbed than emotionally detached, showing signs of anxiety, dysphoria, depression, and suicidal ideation.

https://www.researchgate.net/publicatio ... y_Variants
https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.117 ... 4009333792

Than again, there is also skepticism about whether these individuals are properly construed as psychopathic.

I'll have a read, thanks.

Squaredonutwheels wrote:Manliness, stoicism, big balls and masculine jesus/buddah ideals seems to be a fixation for you to the point you try to make it "fit".

What ideas have you explored lately

vcrpamphlet wrote:What if it's the other way around? Is that the distinction between psychopath and malignant narc?

Until I came here I didn't really know what narcissism was in a clinical sense. I've always just assumed it meant I'm very selfish, which defines how I'm narcissistic.

Some people seem to need it for their sense of self-worth; seems self-defeating to me.

Until I came here I didn't know how difficult it was to answer questions.

Until I came here I didn't know I can't walk, live in my mother's basement, never leave the house, have delusions, depression, autism, PTSD and about 20 other disorders (and those are the ones I'm not faking apparently), am a snitch, a freak, and have multiple stalkers. Oh, and let's not forget that I'm a child molestor.

Isn't the internet wonderful...

I think the best part of going online was how I was suddenly cured of AsPD.

It's amazing the things you learn about yourself.

Manners73 wrote:It's amazing the things you learn about yourself.

Yeah. Everyone's a doctor or psychologist online. If there's anything you don't know about yourself, they'll be more than happy to tell you.