Neuroticism and psychopathy

solemnlysworn wrote:Yeah that’s exactly the point. The aspects of neuroticism related to reactions to moral stimuli are low but other aspects are high (anger, etc). I think I said that in my first post.

Your definition includes the frustration a lot of the psychos here apparently feel too as very high levels

The few traits that a psychopath experiences that relate to neuroticism aren't likely to cause them to be neurotic as such. There are more traits related to neuroticism that a psychopath does not experience, at least one would assume as much anyway:

Neuroticism is a long-term tendency to be in a negative or anxious emotional state . It is not a medical condition but a personality trait. ... People with neuroticism tend to have more depressed moods and suffer from feelings of guilt, envy, anger, and anxiety more frequently and more severely than other individuals.

https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/246608.php

Reaper wrote:I couldn't say for sure if sociopaths are different or not. I personally don't think there's any real noticeable difference between a sociopath and a psychopath if you don't know their history, and even if you do, psychopaths can come from an abusive home environment too, so who is to say who is what.

Think I agree with you - have you by any chance spoken to anyone self-identifying as a socio who's been to prison? Had a neighbour a few years ago who had the whole thing going on - flat affect, anger, ice addiction, machiavellian social control, asshole syndrome, etc; and he made a clear distinction, saying he "loved psychopaths" - even though most mainstreamers wouldn't tell him apart from one. That's interesting to me. He experienced anxiety but not in the borderline narc way; he'd crack the shits at people for "getting his heart running" ... in his mind, think the distinction was he could tell how low his anxiety was compared to other people, but was able to sense a whole different thing when around full-blown psychos, where it's a brain mutation allowing them to otherwise function.

If there are distinctive differences between the two I'd like to know what they are. There's information online about it, but most of the websites about that kind of stuff don't come from a verifiable source.

Same, but it looks like academia only cares about patterns of destruction, so we'll be lucky if we get anything formalised any time soon. I'm beginning to think it's been a smart move taking solidity away from definitions like they have with psychopaths: people otherwise take on a silo mentality with respect to other personality types. Reality is we're all a bit like each other.

vcrpamphlet wrote:have you by any chance spoken to anyone self-identifying as a socio who's been to prison?

I used to know a few guys who've been to prison (they were mates with one of my ex's who had also been in prison), none who outright claimed to be a sociopath or psychopath though. I wasn't around them often enough to really know what they were.

I think too many people throw the labels around like confetti without really understanding what a sociopath and psychopath is, so even if they had claimed to be either, I probably would have been a bit suspicious anyway without any other proof.

You'd have the proof in front of you. The non-obvious chameleons like that guy in America who let his stepson be crushed by a car (when the jack buckled) just so he could get the insurance money - they're not really "sociopathic" when you think about it - ruthless opportunists maybe, but they're not anti-social in the Joker/Taxi Driver sense.

I'm starting to think all someone needs to qualify as a sociopath is to honestly claim themselves as one. Sounds retarded at first, but so long as they're lucid and you're making the observation in-person, then the belief is just how they've handled the dissonance between their natural propensities and what's socially acceptable - the "story" of who they are fits the sociopath label as they understand it, and in-group drivers lead them to adopt it like some kind of club invitation. That's how my neighbour spoke about things. Evidence-wise, most ex-con socios are obvious from a mile away.

Are you a fan of Mr Inbetween by any chance? I think Scott Ryan knows the distinction pretty well - the bleached blond shirt wearer in episode 9 of season 2, vs his mate who stole from the strip club in the previous episode. The main character shows what a half-psychopath (or a compartmentalising psychopath) might look like, too.

vcrpamphlet wrote: Evidence-wise, most ex-con socios are obvious from a mile away.

Are they though...? There's a lot of assholes in the world and they're not all sociopaths.

Are you a fan of Mr Inbetween by any chance? I think Scott Ryan knows the distinction pretty well - the bleached blond shirt wearer in episode 9 of season 2, vs his mate who stole from the strip club in the previous episode. The main character shows what a half-psychopath (or a compartmentalising psychopath) might look like, too.

No, I'm not familiar with that show.

Career assholes are sociopaths tho. But what I mean is there's an aesthetic to them at least as obvious as spotting a Jew.

-- Sat Nov 16, 2019 2:51 pm --

Get around it - have a feeling you might really like it.

vcrpamphlet wrote:Career assholes are sociopaths tho. But what I mean is there's an aesthetic to them at least as obvious as spotting a Jew.

Yes, but the problem is determining what a career asshole is. It's that distinction that I find most people have a problem with. They assume that once an asshole always an asshole, and some are, but people can and do change.

If you know someone's history well enough to know what they've done, then calling someone a career asshole may be justified, but how well do you really know anyone or what's really motivating them.

Get around it - have a feeling you might really like it.

I'll check it out sometime.

@OP

I think neurotic people might want to come across as psychopaths; it would certainly act as a shield, but I think the narcissism that comes with psychopathy might present as similar to that of your general narc, but is quite different.

"General" narcissism is also a shield; it's an attempt to find validation in adoration from others. Whereas the narcissism from psychopathy is the opposite; a lack of care in others and low interest in their reaction, so self-focus is the natural result.

I can see it happening in general AsPD though; kinds like the stereotypical bully mentality, where the bully is reacting to fear at home by being overly aggressive to others, again as a shield.

justonemoreperson wrote:"General" narcissism is also a shield; it's an attempt to find validation in adoration from others.

What do you mean by "general" narcissism?

You talk about general narcissism being a shield, but what if that general narcissist doesn't care about adoration from others?

Do you consider yourself a narcissist, jomp, as in more narcissistic than the average person?

Reaper wrote:

justonemoreperson wrote:"General" narcissism is also a shield; it's an attempt to find validation in adoration from others.

What do you mean "general" narcissism?

You talk about general narcissism being a shield, but what if that general narcissist doesn't care about adoration from others?

When it's the primary driver, such as those with NPD.