Enneagram

justonemoreperson wrote:Maybe I have a cynical view, as some of them remind me of the manipulative nature of the tests I used to endure as a kid, I don't know.
If there is practical application to be had, I'd like to work out a way to apply it over time.

I can understand this. I'm part of a small volunteer group (growing larger but very slowly) who takes the Enneagram into some prisons. There is always huge initial resistance, and rightly so - these people have been tested to death, and the testing was never to their benefit but nearly always to their detriment. People in authority or with some power have declared the inmate to be this or that, without their agreement.

We don't even use a test there. For just the reason you stated. We simply start talking about people, all kinds of people, and what they do and why they might do what they do. Without regard to who in the group might be what type - no one cares - that isn't the point. The point is to begin to define yourself, from your own perspective and using your own insight. It doesn't even matter that much what type a person decides they are - most come from about 3 types' descriptions for the length of the groups and that's good. It's an insight tool; not a tool to try to peg someone.

-- Tue Nov 12, 2019 8:25 pm --

Squaredonutwheels wrote:Do you kents measure your waist and height and obsess over the numbers of some measurements every day too?This stuff comes across as personality anorexia for the existentially anxious.
Except in this case, instead of pacing around looking in the mirror and rechecking the numbers on scales while counting calories; its looking into your own psychic bunghole and repeatedly measuring the diameter of the gape.
What is going on in yo lives that is causing the need to immerse yourselves in classifying and measuring and reducing yourselves?

There's some truth to this too.

poxalis wrote:Yet again, nope. Cheap tricks, troll. Go feed from someone else. I don't play with fish tacos.

If pointing out how rude and condescending you are is trolling.

ViniStonemoss wrote:"People, like Reaper, who can't or won't introspect, will have difficulty with the accuracy of the test; it will simply reflect back to them the more one-dimensional view they have constructed of themselves."

Sounds like taunting to me...

.
OK. But I didn't mean it as taunting - this is nothing more than what Reaper has said about herself. Wasn't an attempt to taunt.

You mentioned the term of therapeutic alliance, in the past, when working with a forum member. But how can you possibly establish relationships of symmetry with people here when you look at them through this lens?

The lens of what? dimensionality? If you meant that, I don't with everyone.

Around the same time, you also evoked a shadow self. Which seemed about right, but I wonder where all of this self-awareness went.
Overall, I always seem to be getting condescension from you.

I know. You've said this before. I'm sure it's there as I can feel it at times, but it would be you who sees it always.

Yet, when making this thread, I wondered whether you would like to chime in, knowing this is one of your area of interest, and I really hope you would, as I enjoy your online presence and respect your knowledge. But I must say that when it comes to owning up to your motivations, sometimes you're just full of it.

I've done more than my fair share of chiming, and need to knock it off now
And yes, I'm full of it. Aren't we all?

-- Tue Nov 12, 2019 8:44 pm --

justonemoreperson wrote:I tend to think these self-administered tests are a bit like horoscopes. If you want them to fit, they will.

Agreed. The Enneagram tests, even the couple validated ones, don't have the built-in safeguards of clinically diagnostic tests.
It really only as useful as one's ability to use it a fodder for self-examination... or not.
That ^ was the point of my 'taunt' (see above) and it's true for everyone, not just Reaper. If a person wants to skew the test towards their perception of themself, it's easily done. Or if one is familiar with the Enneagram before taking the test, it is quite easy to answer in ways that you will get the Type you wish.

I had a look at this again.

I find it interesting. Suspicious of the motivation behind it but interesting nonetheless.

Eight wrote:
We don't even use a test there. For just the reason you stated. We simply start talking about people, all kinds of people, and what they do and why they might do what they do. Without regard to who in the group might be what type - no one cares - that isn't the point. The point is to begin to define yourself, from your own perspective and using your own insight. It doesn't even matter that much what type a person decides they are - most come from about 3 types' descriptions for the length of the groups and that's good. It's an insight tool; not a tool to try to peg someone.

But you're not doing it for them; you're doing it for you.

Read that again from an outsider's point of view, rather than from your own self-congratulating point of view and you'll see that even the language you use just to describe the process is condescending.

The way you describe the conversations you have with Nine follow the same patronising format. I do wonder, as Reaper brought out recently (which you ignored, and it didn't go unnoticed), how much of nine's 'improvement' is real and how much of it is similar to MrNoOne, who relied entirely on his religion to deflect his true nature. Once it fell apart, everything was lost.

No one loses their true nature, no matter how much clapping and guitar playing goes on.

We simply start talking about people, all kinds of people, and what they do and why they might do what they do.

"The duck goes?"
"Quack, quack."
"Well done! Have another cookie."

Eight wrote:The lens of what? dimensionality? If you meant that, I don't with everyone.

What I meant is that, if you look at forum people through the lens of analysands, then we don't get a chance to have discussions on an equal footing with you. People are sharing stories here, being excruciatingly honest sometimes. It's easy to use what people shared against them, but harder to give something they could potentially use against you.

Eight wrote:I know. You've said this before. I'm sure it's there as I can feel it at times, but it would be you who sees it always.

Or it could be that I am perceptive about that kind of things... Anyway, there's two of us, as Reaper wrote she felt something similar.

Eight wrote:I've done more than my fair share of chiming, and need to knock it off now
And yes, I'm full of it. Aren't we all?

Not always, not in every department, but anyway I don't think you're full of it "in general". I can't and won't think of you as a bad person. I'm merely shining the light back on you, because I believe that laying triggers for people to spark a conversation, speaks of some sort of conditioning that it is interesting to call into question, which you can do, since you possess the knowledge and insight. These are conversations that I would find helpful, as mentioned before, but also, perhaps, if you're helping people, you owe it to yourself too.

ViniStonemoss wrote:Attempting to define others is dangerous business, and I often regret it when I do.

I guess what I meant is that you come across as aloof ... a bit like a 5 (though I am not saying you're one)

I've heard that between 4 and 5 is the biggest gap, which makes sense to me, like fire and ice. I flip flopped between 4, 7 and 5 for a year or two before I watched "Bea" 's panel videos on Youtube.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BySvn_zyTnY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8-vZtfZB7Is&t=2927s

This is when I realized: I am NOT a 5 (that and asking for objective opinion)

It's all good. I appreciate you pointing me in a direction. I'll watch the videos for these soon, though I am wary that they are long and for some reason I find it easier to read for extended periods than watch this kind of video.

Will get back to you

Seili wrote:If pointing out how rude and condescending you are is trolling.

it was a natural deduction. you respond to posts i've made to other people by calling me uncreative names on repeat. then you ignored and took offense to me asking simple questions about what your first language is, if you are on the spectrum, or if you have a thought disorder. you're the condescending bitch for thinking those people are beneath you. you've got brat written on your forehead with piss. calling me names after i wish you the best. that was a real winner, lol. there is the chance you really are just that confused, but i won't be caught with my pants down. there's a solid chance you are trolling me. better to call it out instead of be played the forum-fool! it's my lifetime nightmare.

now, I told you you misunderstood me and you've shown no signs that you want clarification. the only thing you do is continually utter "rude, condescending bitch" while i mostly respond to other people or occasionally try to figure out why you are misunderstanding me.

but hey, whatever. if you want to keep responding then i'll likely keep responding back. although i get the feeling you won't read this entire response. you seem like a scanner. a bad one, honestly. hence your initial confusion. i like to type though. so respond a way! more opportunity for me to ramble on endlessly. although i'll likely stop actually talking about you from now on. i'll pepper the response to include a few trigger words, an initial denial of whatever you say, and then move straight forward to stream of conscious. now, the grand finale: a lovely trigger phrase to invite your eyes to the bottom...

you a troll.

poxalis wrote:i won't be caught with my pants down

manipulative little liar

poxalis wrote:calling me names after i wish you the best.

You don't hold yourself accountable for anything do you. Pathetic.

Not everyone you don't like has anything wrong with them. You're not that remarkable or entitled person.