Agree or Disagree?

justonemoreperson wrote:In reality, as much as we like to think we support the successful and pity the weak, in reality we're jealous of the successful and feel comforted by those who fail.

It's situational really.. But yeah, true and fair statement.

salles wrote:

Borderlines have strong emotions, too strong but still feel empty inside.

They are probably the most complicated of all to figure out and the most naturally manipulative imo.

I’d have to agree with that, emotional manipulation especially.

I mean it's also dependent upon the person of course.

(continuation of previous post)

justonemoreperson wrote:
People often play down their success for the sake of humility (which is seen as a virtue), and those who boast are seen as braggers and disliked.

So, as much as we like to think we support the successful and pity the weak, in reality we're jealous of the successful and feel comforted by those who fail.

I think you just hit a nail on the head for me. The support group "hate" me or don't like me. I've been trying to understand why.

I thought it was because they thought I hadn't been through anything bad because I don't say and I usually just talk about my goldfish or my work problem - so I thought it's because they thought I hadn't gone through anything horrendous like them.

So I text the group phone, Paul did and I should check exactly what he said, and said I've been through $#%^ too.

Then I went the other day and I was happy, I got a job so I can quit the job I was doing and it means I'm not signed off sick anymore. I upset 4 out of 6 people. More than usual.

And I was trying to work out why they dislike me more now than they did before. They can't think "she hasn't had anything bad happen to her" so it's got to be that I just get on with things and am not crying in the group and saying how bad my childhood was. And I'm not going to either. I will not make myself miserable to be accepted. They can lump it. I'll be miserable in my own time or when I get to a specialist therapist whichever happens first.

Anyway thanks, what you wrote cleared up a current quandary I had.

salles wrote:

Squaredonutwheels wrote:Link to the article?

The quotes like that arouse in me; a desire to put a pillow over the face of whoever wrote it, and sit on it.

He whose fart smells like sh1t, needs to sh1t. - Abrabert lincolnstien.

Your quote at least matches the point you are making.

The article was interesting until the editor added his own thoughts. In the conclusion part.

https://en.wikiversity.org/wiki/Motivation_and_emotion/Book/2010/Antisocial_personality_disorder

Imagine - if you can - not having a conscience, none at all.
I read that in a dramatic voice over and my eyes rolled so hard, my fake eye popped out and I tripped on a bible.

No seriously. It was an interesting read other than the occasional ttttrrriggggeerrss

justonemoreperson wrote:@OP

It's not possible to feel nothing, or you'd have no neurotransmitters flowing through your brain and you'd be dead. The whole happy / sad thing about other people's success or failures, that's an odd one.

I like it when people I'm invested in are successful, my kids for example. Maybe it's not the same "level" as everyone else, I don't know.

In reality though, my experience is that people are only really happy for someone else's success or sad about their failure if they're ultimately linked to them and it reflects on them.

People get mildly irritated by facebook, for example, because it tends to make everyone look like they're living exciting, action-packed lives, when in reality they're sitting in their underwear, watching Netflix.

As a species, we seem more intimidated by others' success than happy for it, to the point where Nelson Mandela had to say, "Never dim your lights to save those who shine less brightly" or words to that effect.

People often play down their success for the sake of humility (which is seen as a virtue), and those who boast are seen as braggers and disliked.

So, as much as we like to think we support the successful and pity the weak, in reality we're jealous of the successful and feel comforted by those who fail.

Everything you say makes sense.
There is the 'tall poppy ' syndrome also. ' tendency to discredit or disparage those who have achieved notable wealth or prominence in public life.' which happens even if the successful person is humble.
But yes the editor's comments in the conclusion can definitely be argued and were overly sentimental and subjective.The rest of the article which he probably regurgitated from more professional sources has some merit.

-- Sat Nov 02, 2019 5:00 pm --

Squaredonutwheels wrote:
No seriously. It was an interesting read other than the occasional ttttrrriggggeerrss

Yes, I agree. Some kind of sentimental subjective stuff going on when writer slot in his own thoughts. Not so much triggers for me but definitely elicited a confused jaw dropping expression or two.

https://en.wikiversity.org/wiki/Motivation_and_emotion/Book/2010/Antisocial_personality_disorder

Well then, it's the curtains that are the problem, obviously.

If equal effort was to be put into both, I wonder what would be harder:

- Altering or reshaping the curtains a little as they were being formed?
- Or removing the planks from within their eyes and fixing the resulting broken windows?

salles wrote:There is the 'tall poppy ' syndrome also. ' tendency to discredit or disparage those who have achieved notable wealth or prominence in public life.' which happens even if the successful person is humble.

It's a reminder of what you could do but haven't achieved, and so people look at things in the person that they can compete with. Boris Johnson for example. Clearly a socially-inept lunatic with wild hair, but he's managed to get himself successful enough to become UK PM with lots of cash, so he's obviously done something right.

But the focus is on his personal appearance, and criticism over how he achieved what he did, his Tump-like hair and his arguments with his girlfriend. Stuff that could apply to pretty much anyone, but it draws the focus.

Ironically, picking on this sort of stuff should have the opposite effect. If we feel inadequate because people achieve more than we do, having that person be a complete social retard just makes our own failures more profound.

I share some advices about emptiness - just some suggestions that I received and that I found useful.

Emptiness is related to our attitude, and not to the fact that we miss/lack something/someone; external things work basically as a distraction that help to avoid emptiness' feeling and to fill the time, but emptiness is always there.

It works if you develop presence and enthusiasm.

About presence, the key is where we direct our mind. If we focus on what we miss/lack, on absence, we feel empty; if we focus on presence, on what/who is there, we feel full. E.g. we have to think about our skills, not our limitations; our successes, not future goals or past mistakes; actual friends, partners,... not people that we miss.

About enthusiasm: it can be a voluntary choice too, the choice to put energy and passion in what we are doing. If we give something our attention, enthusiasm increases; another way is recalling our attitude and feelings towards things that we like, and “mimic” them while we are busy with other occupations.

The presence's thing is really helpful for me; the second one is harder.
I often perceive that I am artificially faking enthusiasm.
Basing on my experience, I would change the second advice a little. The point isn't to choice “enthusiasm” voluntary, imo it's more realizing if we are creating subconscious obstacles to stop our investment in things, and stop creating them.

An emotional investment in every aspect of life is a risk, and so I noticed that sometimes I (we?) subconsciously build a “wall”. Some of these walls are honestly appropriate, but the problem is when the process often becomes automatic, where it's not required.

@HSS I am glad you have found tools to help you.
My experience is, there are lots of tools out there: Meditation, endurance training, mindfulness, nlp cbt, dbt, logo therapy, psychedelic therapy, regression therapy, religion...etc...
Yes some are more distraction therapies than others. It all works for a while, and on certain occasions, but not forever.
One has to commit every waking minute to making it work.
One needs to be motivated enough.
The reward needs to justify the effort.
PD's are tricky because you have the prefrontal cortex and amygdala battling it out with the subconscious and conscious.

Nowadays, If I feel empty , so be it. If I feel anger so be it, i'll pop a valium.
And at the moment I am ok with being disconnected from the people in my current environment. It is preferable to faking enthusiasm. I am managing to fake tolerance which is waay more than they deserve