Best ASPD movies of all time

Reaper wrote:
A diagnosis of AsPD got you a lesser sentence?

Not the diagnosis, the condition of my going to a court-ordered psychiatrist.

It's reliable if its main purpose is identify reasons behind behaviour but it's unreliable from a patient perspective, as it offers no treatment except restraint and boxing-in.

Take me as an example. I was diagnosed following a court order in exchange for a lesser sentence. Ok, but then what? Nothing. No counselling was offered, no therapy, medication or anything else. Just, "ok, you have a problem so we'll lower your sentence to a fine, community service and a suspended prison sentence, but now you're on your own; we've lost interest."

Any other condition would not have been treated as such. Even people with BPD are given help in the community but no one knows what the f*ck to do with people with AsPD unless it's a reaction to behaviour.

Yes, I agree with that. But you should know diagnostic tools are not treatment tools, especially not the PCL-R, if you were administered it. It cannot measure change over time. But does that prove that it is unreliable, or that you simply don't like it?

I also think you're actually pretty lucky if you've got a lesser sentence for diagnosis of ASPD. Especially if you're in the UK or US, which are very well known to have screwed their prison and rehabilitation system. In the US there literally millions of people in prison for smoking weed or something equally ridiculous.

Maybe it was more popular in your time, from my understanding you're one of the oldest members here. But a popular belief that was very common, actually still is in certain circles, is that pwASPD or Psychopathy cannot be helped. This is having been proven several times to lack any convincing scientific support. If you were to seek help today things might be different.

dobiedobiedoo wrote:the PCL-R [..] cannot measure change over time.

How so

solemnlysworn wrote:

dobiedobiedoo wrote:the PCL-R [..] cannot measure change over time.

How so

It's not a tool for treatment. The items are evaluated on the basis of the subject functioning over the course of their life (personal files, criminal record, etc) and not only on the basis of their present condition, which means it cannot measure changes in psychopathic symptoms over time or if therapy helped you or not. There are other tools for that.
In part, that's where the anti-treatment belief jomp mentioned comes from. There is focus on the "evil" within the offender.

dobiedobiedoo wrote:
Yes, I agree with that. But you should know diagnostic tools are not treatment tools, especially not the PCL-R, if you were administered it. It cannot measure change over time. But does that prove that it is unreliable, or that you simply don't like it?

You should be able to measure it over time. The reason it doesn't is that the process stops at diagnosis, unlike most other conditions.

Do I like it? Not really, so you may be right that my opinion is biased. However, when you've spent most of your childhood being experimented on with one theory to the next, finally having a diagnosis which leads to no useful help, just a label, what would you expect?

I also think you're actually pretty lucky if you've got a lesser sentence for diagnosis of ASPD. Especially if you're in the UK or US, which are very well known to have screwed their prison and rehabilitation system. In the US there literally millions of people in prison for smoking weed or something equally ridiculous.

The lesser sentence was given on condition that I went under evaluation, not based on the final diagnosis.

If you were to seek help today things might be different.

Maybe.

dobiedobiedoo wrote:

solemnlysworn wrote:

dobiedobiedoo wrote:the PCL-R [..] cannot measure change over time.

How so

It's not a tool for treatment. The items are evaluated on the basis of the subject functioning over the course of their life (personal files, criminal record, etc) and not only on the basis of their present condition, which means it cannot measure changes in psychopathic symptoms over time or if therapy helped you or not. There are other tools for that.

I'm not sure that I agree, since psychologists weigh current and past history according to current relevance when assessing the pcl-r. Yes, they are taken into account but, in the same way a conduct disorder isn't sufficient for an AsPD Dx, what one did in their 20s isn't as important as what people are doing in their 40s when reassessing.

Jomp; I wouldn’t be surprised if the main purpose behind the diagnosis wasn’t so much as to treat you but label you Incase you got into trouble again.

ZeroZ wrote:Jomp; I wouldn’t be surprised if the main purpose behind the diagnosis wasn’t so much as to treat you but label you Incase you got into trouble again.

Well, in that case it worked. I can't get a firearms license and I can't do jury service.

They can only deny you a firearm in the US. If you were hospitalized in a mental hospital against your will or determined a mental defective, how ever that comes about I don’t know. This could be part of the problem who knows but I got sooo lucky,

I was convicted of a crime involving a firearm, the only reason I wasn’t hospitalized by the court for observation was because my lawyer argued I would lose my job and that would be counterproductive. So the judge let me pay for a very expensive mental health evaluation instead that came back baaaad, BUT it doesn’t get reported to the government agency. They try and trap you at every possible turn in defense the psychiatrist or psychologist or whatever he was did try to get me to come back because he could help me. I didn’t but looking back I should have

I'm not sure that I agree, since psychologists weigh current and past history according to current relevance when assessing the pcl-r. Yes, they are taken into account but, in the same way a conduct disorder isn't sufficient for an AsPD Dx, what one did in their 20s isn't as important as what people are doing in their 40s when reassessing.

The traits should present themselves in all walks of your life so the evidence should be persistent, albeit traits might manifest differently if you’re going through remission.
The most common use of PCL-R is in risk assessment, even though it's not meant for that. You should know that criminal behavior weighs heavily in the PCL's 20 items and that the tool is partly tautological. According to the PCL-R, a diagnosis of Psychopathy is a static one.
If you're interested in it's uses read this: https://concept.paloaltou.edu/rapid-gro ... -hearings/

justonemoreperson wrote:

dobiedobiedoo wrote:Do I like it? Not really, so you may be right that my opinion is biased. However, when you've spent most of your childhood being experimented on with one theory to the next, finally having a diagnosis which leads to no useful help, just a label, what would you expect?

Fair enough. This is one of the reasons why that label can be so dangerous. Famous criminologist I read about once said, "I can't think of a case where my understanding of a perpetrator would have been contributed from him being assessed as a psychopath"
More often it just enables the person to act this way.