Was Jimmy Savile a psychopath?

Brandon1 wrote:Most girls finish puberty by age 14, so what's the problem?

Are you a paedophile?

Manners73 wrote:Are you a paedophile?

I've been attracted to girls as young as 13 but I'm not primarily attracted to them. I prefer girls my own age, around 20 - 25.

-- Thu Mar 28, 2019 2:49 pm --

justonemoreperson wrote:I have, multiple times. It's like painting a fence underwater.

You didn't answer the question. Come on, quit trying to insult me and actually try to participate. Don't be petty. I simply asked if the age of consent should be 25 based on what I said.

Introjection (literally meaning taking in) is the process by which we subconciously internalise and integrate external objects into our own psyche. Through this process (beginning at birth if you’re a Kleinian and around 5 if your a Freudian) the conscience and ego-ideal, collectively known as the superego, are created. Sometimes figuratively described as the internalised form of an authoritarian parent. The superego is the internal structure or part of the self that, as the internal authority, reflects on the self, makes judgements, exerts moral pressure, and is the seat of conscience, guilt and self-esteem.

When we do something which conflicts with those internalised objects we literally act counter to our own psyche and the superego attacks the ego, resulting in feelings of self-contempt or self-disgust. Projected outwards onto others the result is shame.

More recent empirical studies show that ‘highly moral’ personalities are partially determined by genetic factors.

The internalised objects in both ego and superego, are initially extreme but become more moderate and realistic as the child developes. The borderlines provide a pretty good example of primitive superego development in action; vengeful, impulsive and unstable, feeling justified punishing others one minute and being ridden self-contempt the next.

Psychodynamics doesn’t view the antisocial as a discrete construct. However antisocial traits are caused by failures in the process of superego integration. A psychopath is supposedly the result of a complete failure of introjection, they are a closed system, a nation of one, immune to subconscious social conditioning.

However problems with superego intergration are a pretty constant feature of mental illness typically worsening as disorders move to the extreme end of whatever spectrum they belong to.

For example the Narcissist denies reality and merges self perception with the ideal self making themselves beyond the rules which apply to lesser mortals. Some views of antisocial personalities regard them as an extreme narcissist whose ideal self is based on primitive masculine stereotypes (histrionic being the female equivalent).

Schizoid is the inverted/introvert form of the borderline where splitting operations gut interpersonal experiance and they play out the same crazy in their own internal experience.

The dynamic antithesis of the antisocial behaviours are compulsive behaviours. These are people with too much introjection, who have figuratively internalised an authoritarian parent that is too powerful. These are highly inhibited, conscientious and controlling individuals. In the eventuality that they have difficulty expressing or processing aggression, they may project it outward forming a paranoid dynamic and making them interpersonally grim and puritanical.

Psychotic structures are more severely broken and regarded as not having anything really resembling a superego, or in a the structural sense a personality for that matter. A little unkind in my view, but there it is.

Bi-polar is more complex, too much so for here. Bipolar is regarded as sitting on the cusp between borderline and psychotic structures, occasionally putting a foot down on each side. This isn’t a bad review if you have access.

At the opposite (neurotic) end of the object relations spectrum though also seen with the PDs you have anaclitic depression caused by the disruption of a caregiving relationship with a primary object and characterised by feelings of helplessness and weakness. A person with anaclitic depression experiences intense fears of abandonment and desperately struggles to maintain direct contact with the need-gratifying object (co-dependents are big on this one). As well as Introjective depression arising when a person feels that they have failed to meet their own standards and that therefore they are failures. Introjective depression arises from a harsh, unrelenting, highly critical superego that creates feelings of worthlessness, guilt and a sense of having failure. A person with introjective depression experiences intense fears of losing approval, recognition, and love from a desired object. Which can lead to anxiety and depressive disorders.

Autism I have no idea about, it’s traditiinally the domain of cognitive/behavioural rather than psychodynamic theories.

I digress...

Anyway my point, convoluted as it is, is that our morality/conscience/superego is a product of genetics, the values and behaviours we were exposed to as a child and the various developmental problems and structural compensations which occurred during that time. It is not by any stretch of the imagination a purely logical construct and to try to treat it as such is frankly missing the point.

By an empirical standard morality does not exist. There is no justice, no fairness, no mercy, no equality, no right or wrong. From an empirical viewpoint the universe positively fails to give a solitary f*ck about you, me or anyone else for that matter. Conscience, morality and the other products of the superego are like a social delusion, a shared dream, a narrative we tell each other until, through repetition, we forget that it is a lie. In this regard it is more like faith than reason. However Freud himself believed that the evolutionary development of the superego was the point at which civilisation began. The point at which an angry man decided to use words rather than a rock to express himself. It is only through belief in things like justice that they come to be.

In regards to things like pedophilia I expect that most people have a more neuanced view than the law takes. Most people will have less problem with a 14year old sleeping with a 17 year old than with a 50 year old. Also more of a problem with a 35 year old collecting kiddie porn than a 15 year old who just wants to look at pictures of naked girls his own age

However the law is a macro tool; simplistic rules which have to be able to apply to a complex reality. It has to take into account the existence of unworldly and slow developing kids and their vulnerability to manipulative, unstable and predatory adults. Large differentials in the power dynamic and the potential for abuse play a large part in why the law is written and enforced as it is.

Also on the subject or a pilots license. 16 is gliders and balloons, it’s 17 for anything with an engine. Even with a ppl though you are still going to be heavily restricted, the ppl is more like a license to learn than a license to do. Also to get a ppl you also have to go to and AME and get a medical certificate which weeds out most mental health problems and pass a criminal records check. The CAAs attitude to letting people fly is conservative to say the least, hence 17 is not really unreasonable.

Bikes have an usual pattern where you have to wait to 24 or have been riding for 3 or 4 years before you can get on the larger bikes, most of which are smaller than your average car. On paper it seems illogical but anyone who’s ever ridden a litre bike will tell you that they provide more opportunities to kill yourself than almost any other vehicle. Hence not letting stupid teenage boys, which is to say all teenage boys, at them is sound if your aim is to preserve the number of teenage boys