Do you even care?

by **vcrpamphlet** » Mon Nov 05, 2018 12:44 am

Now stick it up your arse.

-- Mon Nov 05, 2018 10:14 am --

Now stick it up your arse.

-- Mon Nov 05, 2018 10:15 am --

Now stick it up your arse.

-- Mon Nov 05, 2018 10:15 am --

Now stick it up your arse.

-- Mon Nov 05, 2018 10:15 am --

Now stick it up your arse.

solemnlysworn wrote:I took a long time to figure out that people with BPD experience an emptiness that is negative in affect and use to escape that. It’s a gaping hole. It has its own essence. Different to the kind of emptiness I usually experience which is more like lack of sensation and wanting to heighten everything

Do you find that many of the partners that are attracted to you display BPD traits?

by **justonemoreperson** » Mon Nov 05, 2018 8:14 am

@OP

I find myself looking at this topic in a binary way; assuming that people either care out of genuine feeling or they care out of selfish motivation.

However, it's not that black and white and most people care in many ways, some of them self-motivated and some of them out of genuine concern. It all depends on who you're talking about and how interconnected you are to the person.

I care about my wife and kids far more than I care about my friends and I care about my friends more than I care about my neighbours, and I care more about my neighbours than I do for starving kids in Africa.

The reason for this is that the closer they are to me the more it affects me and the more aware I am of their predicament.

I guess it's still all self-motivated, but so what? As long as we fulfill our social contract with the people we're with we can expect the same back. Care generates care. I'll care for my wife when she needs it and she'll do the same for me what i need it. Care is an investment.

by **skinnedheart** » Tue Nov 06, 2018 11:32 am

justonemoreperson wrote: it's not that black and white and most people care in many ways, some of them self-motivated and some of them out of genuine concern. It all depends on who you're talking about and how interconnected you are to the person.

I agree to this. To be honest, I'm not really sure if I have any kind of caring which isn't in some way selfless. I feel I've really learned to care over the last 5 years or so.

However, what is that feeling like? It feels like I'm avoiding guilt and shame. If doing something nice means that person looks up to me or ends up giving me a positive trait in their eyes, then I care to do that. E.g. giving someone a lift, giving a gift or just being a good listener. I get positive affirmations from people when I'm helpful.

When I hear about something bad happening to someone I know, I feel awkward because I don't feel much, so I distance myself from those people.

Damn... Since I started posting on this forum I realize now what a robot I am...

But going back to onemoreperson said, I think there are shades of real caring in there mixed in with the self-benefit thing, but it's very difficult to see where the lines are drawn. Most of the time I just go by not thinking about any of this. It's only when I come on here I stop and think about what was really going on in my head. It's a bit depressing to be completely honest. I feel like a mistake.

I will kill myself one day because no matter how I may entertain you at a house party, no matter how much my SOs love me and hold me, or people praising me for what I do. I feel nothing. I'm just here, screwing around.

by **justonemoreperson** » Tue Nov 06, 2018 12:03 pm

skinnedheart wrote:
When I hear about something bad happening to someone I know, I feel awkward because I don't feel much, so I distance myself from those people.

Damn... Since I started posting on this forum I realize now what a robot I am...

But going back to onemoreperson said, I think there are shades of real caring in there mixed in with the self-benefit thing, but it's very difficult to see where the lines are drawn. Most of the time I just go by not thinking about any of this. It's only when I come on here I stop and think about what was really going on in my head. It's a bit depressing to be completely honest. I feel like a mistake.

I think there's also an apathy that takes place in people who do care. No one really questions it; they just accept that they 'care'.

Conversations I've had with people around this usually involve deconstructing what it means for them to care about whatever has prompted the conversation, and once you start to delve into the reasons why a person cares about someone, two things usually happen:

1. The person usually comes to the conclusion that maybe it is self-motivated.
2. They don't want to talk about it anymore; possibly becoming upset or angry.

It might just be that you're more aware of the real reason behind people's 'care' and the price of your instrument is that you can't just accept it as 'caring.'

It's a bit like people who profess a faith in god. It never stands up to scrutiny but they don't care, as long as it makes them feel better.

So, you're left with: "I care, and that makes me a good person. Now, before you say anything else, I'm going to put my fingers in my ears and go 'la la la.'"

They only really care about stuff that's rammed under their noses anyway.

by **skinnedheart** » Tue Nov 06, 2018 12:32 pm

justonemoreperson wrote:
It might just be that you're more aware of the real reason behind people's 'care' and the price of your instrument is that you can't just accept it as 'caring.'

Well I can't talk for other people. Maybe they truly have a different sensation. They might hear someone talk about something bad in their life and they can't listen because it causes them pain to hear about the hardships of someone else. I don't have that, my thought process is something like:

- Gauge the person's emotions as they talk about this thing; within reason to try to mimic it.

- Listen very carefully to what they're saying; to me this is like looking for clues.

- Use those 'clues' & quickly figure out what this person needs, or what would make them happy.

- Evaluate if I can be bothered or not to do any of those things <------ I think this is the closest to 'caring' that I experience. Those evaluations are based on questions like: Is this someone I want to win over in some way? What does this person have? How are they connected in the bigger picture? Do I like spending time with them? Based on those answers, I may 'care' enough to take actions to improve their situation, even if its in a small way.

I find this sad, yeah I do.

by **ArchCannon** » Tue Nov 06, 2018 5:05 pm

solemnlysworn wrote:Apologies. I tend to ramble still half asleep on my phone.

The question is basically :
do you only care about other people when it affects your direct self interest or can you care for them for their own sakes?

Only if it affects me directly. I can't be bothered otherwise.

by **solemnlysworn** » Tue Nov 06, 2018 11:37 pm

Squaredonutwheels wrote:
solemnlysworn wrote:I took a long time to figure out that people with BPD experience an emptiness that is negative in affect and use to escape that. It’s a gaping hole. It has its own essence. Different to the kind of emptiness I usually experience which is more like lack of sensation and wanting to heighten everything

Do you find that many of the partners that are attracted to you display BPD traits?

I find it hard to decide on this. My initial response was that most women exhibit traits and that I dont think most that are attracted to me are pathological. I think that the people who have been initially most attracted to me might have been though.

justonemoreperson wrote:The reason for this is that the closer they are to me the more it affects me and the more aware I am of their predicament.

This stood out the most for me in your post because awareness of their pain (we'll call it) lends itself more towards caring for them. It seems to imply that if you were entirely in-tune with people and their issues that you might be more caring in general. For me, I dont think it's the case.

If you spent more time imagining and trying to identify others' issues and were involved in them more deeply in your head, would you be a nicer person? I dont think I would be.

by **xcagedsilhouttex** » Wed Nov 07, 2018 5:04 pm

xcagedsilhouttex wrote:I was having a discussion around this subject on Saturday. This was put into addict terms which I think is applicable in this situation considering that "selfish, self-seeking and self-centred" is the personality of an addict in and out of active addiction. Basically the conclusion drawn was that your personality itself is out of your control but how you act is within your control.

The only person I know who does not have a PD or is not an addict is my friend with ASD. I know for a fact that he loses sleep over worrying about those in his life. I will never understand that and I have come to accept that I will never feel as he does.

That being said, part of my recovery is to actively not act on my character defects. I can cognitively understand how my actions affect others and how to act appropriately and therefore I have no excuse to behave indifferently towards them unless I actively choose to act on my character defects.

So the simple answer is "Do I care beyond what is self-centered?" No. "Do I actively work against my character defects to show those that are in my life the care they feel they need?" Yes.

I am only able to do that by working the programme. Showing care is still self-centred because I am only doing it to maintain my recovery but that's how the programme works and why it was created the way it was.

Sorry if this was a bit on the addict side but I find my addict flaws and AsPD flaws to be very similar in nature.

I would like to add here that there is a part of me that has the want to care for people. I am not always successful and I do fall back on my self seeking patterns but there is some part of me that feels enjoyment towards caring for another human being and I don't think it's fair to completely dismiss that side of myself because it is a redeeming character trait.

I think I have this compulsion to help others in areas I wish others would have helped me. There are some members here who I have genuinely wanted to reach out to because their addiction patterns seemed so similar to mine. I enjoy cooking and feeding those in my life properly. In relationships I have been incredibly supportive of my SO's goals. Helping my nephew overcome his challenges is fulfilling for me because I wish I had it myself. I genuinely want to see others succeed. So, it might be a type of projection of how I wish others would care for me but it's still care and it seems like a good platform to build on.

It's one of my paradoxical personality traits and I should work on being more consistent.

by **Eight** » Wed Nov 07, 2018 6:15 pm

xcagedsilhouttex wrote:I would like to add here that there is a part of me that has the want to care for people. I am not always successful and I do fall back on my self seeking patterns but there is some part of me that feels enjoyment towards caring for another human being and I don't think it's fair to completely dismiss that side of myself because it is a redeeming character trait.

Doesn't matter so much if the motives are mixed. If there is a part of you that gets enjoyment from caring, that's a good thing.

I think I have this compulsion to help others in areas I wish others would have helped me...So, it might be a type of projection of how I wish others would care for me but it's still care and it seems like a good platform to build on.

Agree. And I'd say it's less projection with you, and more a form of self-care -- you take care of yourself via taking care of others.

-- Wed Nov 07, 2018 10:19 am --

solemnlysworn wrote:Do you ever really consider the pain from their perspective and feel because of it, or is it only when there are negative consequences to your immediate self that you nurture others out of whatever pain they’re feeling?

Do I ever really consider the pain from their perspective, and feel? Often.
But it depends. Depends sometimes on how connected I am to the person, or sometimes on the situation itself and how much I can relate to what is occurring for them.
Often I cannot watch certain movies because I find myself relating too closely for comfort with a character; I have to leave off watching as it is distressing me. Frustrates the heck out of my husband who is abandoned mid-show.

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