Do you even care?

Somebody was trying to articulate to me that there are different levels and different kinds of caring about/for people. I’m trying to draw a line in how a pure narcissstic orientation might care and how it’s different to when there’s actual connection.

Every instance requires the extension of oneself but I think it can be limited to egocentricity and how the ‘state’ of a person affects your life rather than how it must feel from that person’s perspective.

A coarse example might be how your partner looks. Most would want them to keep on top of it because of the gratification you’d derive. Boob jobs if you’re into that sort of thing. I’ll look after you and feed you well and make sure you go to the gym. I want you to be healthy and I care that you’re healthy.

It may enforce an insecurity where she knows that without it you don’t care. As long as he mood doesn’t affect yours there isn’t an issue. Then it does and you care about it because now her unhappiness is causing you issues.

Compare with the alternative where you know she’s insecure about it and it makes her sad but bottles or and keeps it to herself and it has no negative impact on you but you know she’s hurting herself trying to be what you want. If you empathise fully and without narcissism you extend beyond what matters to you and what matters to her and so you feel the pain from beyond yourself and it matters to you.

I lack except by imagination or intellectualisation with the latter. However when someone asks if I care I don’t feel dishonest when I’m saying no— at least I didn’t until I tried to conceptualise it.

Do you ever really consider the pain from their perspective and feel because of it, or is it only when there are negative consequences to your immediate self that you nurture others out of whatever pain they’re feeling?

I find it so hard to follow your train of thought sometimes, I have no idea why. For me it doesn’t work like that, early on I do care and I go all out to win her over, I can only assume this is some sort of idealization I often miss red flags and character flaws during this time even with people pointing them out to me. Things are usually hot and heavy too especially in the bedroom.

Now as time goes on and the relationship becomes a burden to me and I don’t like the way things are going, I start picking up every single thing about her I don’t like to the point I can’t stand to be around her anymore (the way she chews her food, smacked her lips etc)and I can’t even stand the idea of sex with her at this point and I’m fighting urges to cheat on her. I’m assuming this would be devaluation. I’ve tried to rekindle these relationships after this but at best I can become friends with them but I never see them as a sexual partner again.

Apologies. I tend to ramble still half asleep on my phone.

The question is basically :
do you only care about other people when it affects your direct self interest or can you care for them for their own sakes?

I like it when you ramble. I'm going to ramble here as well.

I care deeply about those I can recognize myself in.

Then again I view my existence as a fractal of something massive so that bigger thing cares for itself and though me cares for itself.

It sounds wonky but all other love is self love and even to love another deeply is to love yourself, the Self that is bigger than this little self.

Those I don't care about are people whose aspects of the self are harder to recognize or whose aspects are those that I reject about myself.

It's interesting that it's all self love, just how willing I am to accept to recognize who I AM is what limits the extent to who I care about.

If I know that you are me, of course I care for you. It's just how much of you I am willing to accept as me.

It can backfire and be misunderstood as well. I scratch myself. I cut my own nails. When I get injured I stitch myself up. I sometimes starve myself. I poison myself and prostitute myself. If I view the other as me, I can do to them what I am capable of doing to myself and by "caring" I appear to not care at all. I do care. You're me so I do what I please.

Narcissism, empathy, indifference, love, evil, all different faces of the same object. It's bizarre the more I try understand it.

solemnlysworn wrote:Apologies. I tend to ramble still half asleep on my phone.

The question is basically :
do you only care about other people when it affects your direct self interest or can you care for them for their own sakes?

I would say that I care about them, but you could make the argument that I like them when the relationship benefits me, and once it doesn’t Idevalue them and push them out the door. That’s not my thought process it’s more unconscious but the effects are essentially the same so I guess the answer is yes, I tend to distance myself when the relationship doesn’t benefit me but I don’t think about it like that at the time. If that makes any sense?

I was having a discussion around this subject on Saturday. This was put into addict terms which I think is applicable in this situation considering that "selfish, self-seeking and self-centred" is the personality of an addict in and out of active addiction. Basically the conclusion drawn was that your personality itself is out of your control but how you act is within your control.

The only person I know who does not have a PD or is not an addict is my friend with ASD. I know for a fact that he loses sleep over worrying about those in his life. I will never understand that and I have come to accept that I will never feel as he does.

That being said, part of my recovery is to actively not act on my character defects. I can cognitively understand how my actions affect others and how to act appropriately and therefore I have no excuse to behave indifferently towards them unless I actively choose to act on my character defects.

So the simple answer is "Do I care beyond what is self-centered?" No. "Do I actively work against my character defects to show those that are in my life the care they feel they need?" Yes.

I am only able to do that by working the programme. Showing care is still self-centred because I am only doing it to maintain my recovery but that's how the programme works and why it was created the way it was.

Sorry if this was a bit on the addict side but I find my addict flaws and AsPD flaws to be very similar in nature.

Substance abuse issues can present symptoms very similar to ASPD that’s why they have to eliminate that before diagnosis, so I think it’s a very good comparison.

The only real difference that I have come across is the reason for using. Most addicts are using to not feel the feelings they want to escape. Those with AsPD or other PDs with a blunted emotional affect use to feel something.

Anyway, I digress...

I took a long time to figure out that people with BPD experience an emptiness that is negative in affect and use to escape that. It’s a gaping hole. It has its own essence. Different to the kind of emptiness I usually experience which is more like lack of sensation and wanting to heighten everything

In order for something go be hollow or empty, it must have the capacity to be filled. That's how I understand the BPD hollow which is like a chasm wanting to be filled or the memory of being whole versus the nothings which is just that - nothing.