Vast majority of people with mental health issues...

The vast majority of human beings that are in pain in the mental health industry are nothing more than a pay check as far as the mental health bureaucracy is concerned. What do I mean, let me be perfectly clear, the mental health industry is nothing more than a big -Ponzi Scheme-? If you saw and heard what I did in years of observations across whole areas of the mental health industry and only saw a two percent real success rate among human beings suffering and in pain, you would agree with my -Ponzi Scheme- analogy. That does not mean that some people in pain are not helped it means that too much -Hope- is implied and very few people gain real success. This never ending bull $#%^ and pain and suffering leads to the person with mental illness being worn down to such a degree that they pick some form of suicide to end their suffering. The vast majority of mental health professionals and the mental health bureaucracy causes more harm than good...

Hi,

I fail to see how you are relating a 'Ponzi scheme' to the mental health industry. A Ponzi scheme is where an organisation takes money from investors and then pays them back using their own money [that they invested] or that of others, instead of actually paying them back with profits. However, whilst you have taken a very pessimistic attitude to the mental health industry, I do agree with some of what you have said.

I think that a big problem is this: people feel that they should be helped by doctors and medication, as opposed to actually getting off their own butts and helping themselves too. The majority of the recovery work has to come from within the patient, not from the doctor who has his/her own concerns and family to look after. Money does play an issue, unfortunately, but that's just te way it is. I imagine that the majority of people become profgessionals in this industry because they see it as a good career that pays well, but that's fair enough, in my opinion. Each person has his/her own life to take care of, and it is quite rare to encounter a selfless person who actually puts the welfare of the patient before that of him/herself.

Good luck to you,
Kevin

-Chucky- much of what you say is true, I was using the analogy of a -Ponzi Scheme- for a number of reasons. The clients used this expression to describe their relationship with the professional mental health industry. New members with mental health problems are brought into the industry with promises of vague -Hope- and promises of vague success in treating their disorders. If they do what the mental health professionals tell them is a program of treatment which actually offers never ending pain and suffering and false hope and then some form of suicide to end their suffering. When the clients pick some form of suicide to end this -Ponzi Scheme- then new clients take their place in a never ending cycle that only has a 2% success rate due to a client getting themselves out of this -Ponzi Scheme-. PS, since I saw this happening for years with no viable alternative to this -Ponzi Scheme- until I started to look into some ideas that I saw as a possibility as a non professional who was a good observer that has -Empathy- and real full time -Kindness- toward human beings in pain 24/7/365?

Heya,

I'm understanding a bit more why you related this system to a 'Ponzi scheme'... Anyway, where did you get the 2% statistic from? I'm not questioning it (in fact, I think it sounds about right). I believe that it would be difficult to gauge what a 'recovery' is, and especially because patients aren't followed-up after they go through therapy.

I research cancer and patients can be followed-up for 20+ years after surgery to remove their tumours.

Kevin

Chucky wrote:I think that a big problem is this: people feel that they should be helped by doctors and medication, as opposed to actually getting off their own butts and helping themselves too. The majority of the recovery work has to come from within the patient, not from the doctor who has his/her own concerns and family to look after.

Careful with generalizations. There are people out there who realize the work has to come from within and seek guidance on how to get there, but end up medicated and under the control of doctors and hospitals. I struggle with my own issues without a psychiatrist and without medications (for the most part) while trying to work out the core issues with a therapist. The issue of medications keeps coming up. It's very, very easy to think the meds and psychiatrist know what is best... and when you're mentally worn down it's easy to get caught up in the system.

well, there are some people who are truly trying to help patients. And there are some people the drugs really do help.

With that said, the "industry" is mostly in it for the money, not to help people. Which is why I try to stay away from the meds. When a legal pill can give you psychical withdrawals, i see something very wrong with the double standard of the drug industry and refuse to fund it.

ladyswan wrote:Careful with generalizations. There are people out there who realize the work has to come from within and seek guidance on how to get there, but end up medicated and under the control of doctors and hospitals... ...It's very, very easy to think the meds and psychiatrist know what is best... and when you're mentally worn down it's easy to get caught up in the system.

True, but in a thread like this it is difficult not to generalise without adding a 'but' to every statement made - haha. I do agree with the implication made in the last line that you've written in the quoted passage [above] - i.e. they don't actually know best in some cases. I listened to what my various docs had to say but ultimately I made my own decisions in my recovery. I learned about myself by 'immersing' myself in the world of my problem, and then devised methods of help. Some worked; others didn't.

zausel wrote:With that said, the "industry" is mostly in it for the money, not to help people.

Regrettably, this is true. It is in the benefit of pharmacutical companies that doctors make more diagnoses and perscribe more drugs, which I feel is a conflict of interests. That IS just the way that it is, however, and there is no better solution. Pharmaceutical companies could be purchased by governments, but even then they'd be looking at making profits.

Chucky wrote:

zausel wrote:With that said, the "industry" is mostly in it for the money, not to help people.

Regrettably, this is true. It is in the benefit of pharmacutical companies that doctors make more diagnoses and perscribe more drugs, which I feel is a conflict of interests. That IS just the way that it is, however, and there is no better solution. Pharmaceutical companies could be purchased by governments, but even then they'd be looking at making profits.

ya, they play "businessman" with peoples lives to make a buck. Quite a few people get put on stuff they probably dont need which in the end probably does cause issues because of the meds. i had my wisdom teeth pulled and there was no reason to be giving me hydro, was overkill. Not to mention they add acetaminophen to these pain killers nowadays to prevent abuse....which only further harms people, because most people dont go research a pill to find every ingredient in it then further research each of those ingredients if they intend to abuse.

seems like they fix you up, but screw you in other ways( the 1000 page list of side effect each drug can give) to further get pills down you, to keep this cycle going to get you on pills for your whole life. But liek isiad, some people really do need some of these pills, but im not talking about them(even though to me, they may be the minority).

Chucky wrote:True, but in a thread like this it is difficult not to generalise without adding a 'but' to every statement made - haha. I do agree with the implication made in the last line that you've written in the quoted passage [above] - i.e. they don't actually know best in some cases. I listened to what my various docs had to say but ultimately I made my own decisions in my recovery. I learned about myself by 'immersing' myself in the world of my problem, and then devised methods of help. Some worked; others didn't.

I'm glad you took the initiative in your own treatment. Many don't.

Personally, I didn't have much of a chance to do that at the beginning. I was a minor, a very ill one too. Once the doctors got me into the hospital they stripped my parents of the power to make medical decisions on my behalf. Non-compliance with medications meant they'd keep renewing my form 2 (forcible 2-week confinement) and my parents were told there was nothing they could do to remove me from the hospital without a huge legal battle. It was a monster of a system to get out of.

Now that I'm older and (presumably) wiser, I make my own informed decisions.

zausel wrote:Quite a few people get put on stuff they probably dont need which in the end probably does cause issues because of the meds.

Again, I cannot argue with you, and it is my belief that many people get prescribed medication that can, at times, do them much worse than if they were not taking them. Also, 'simple' diagnoses such as anxiety, depression, etc. are too quickly made and the specifics of the problem are never explored. Aother gripe is that people ar given meds and told to 'rest', when that from my experience makes you feel worse. You should instead take meds and be told to get the hell on with your life, not sit back an wait for your world to turn into Utopia...

ladyswan wrote:Once the doctors got me into the hospital they stripped my parents of the power to make medical decisions on my behalf... ...my parents were told there was nothing they could do to remove me from the hospital without a huge legal battle. It was a monster of a system to get out of.

Had I been through this, I believe that my view of the 'system' would be much worse. Fortunately, I was able to make my own decisions throughout, even though my doctor did threaten [nicely] a few times to strip me of my free will.