existence of mental illness

gabe911 wrote:your argument seems strong but a question that comes to my mind is: are a sore leg and twisted ankles illnesses? just wondering. do u have any references to support that a sore leg is an illness. much appreciate it

If a sore leg goes on for long enough, it becomes chronic pain, which is a perfectly valid reason to go seek medical advice and look for a cause... Just saying

In the case of free will, you should also consider that your free will is shaped by your visible set of choices. Say you grew up autistic or schizoid, with much lessened emotions and correspondingly poor ability to read others emotional state, that in effect means you are wearing blinkers to a big chunk of the human experience until someone fixes you. No real choice about it...

ocular_razor wrote:the real mental illness is washington d.c. and the delusion is monopoly money

LOL

Mental illness seems like a copout term. It's like the modern day version of burning witches at the stake or performing exorcisms to remove demons.

Anyone who doesnt conform to societal shackles of slavery and robot behavior is seen as a threat and unproductive.

I think you are misunderstanding Thomas Ssasz's argument in the "Myth of Mental Illness".

Ssasz is accusing Psychiatrist's of misusing language. His argument can be standardized in the following way.

1. Things that are mental are not observable or demonstrable.
2. Illnesses are observable and demonstrable
3. Thus, mental illness is conceptually incoherent.
4. Therefore, there is no such thing as a mental illness.

Of course premise (2) is no longer true because the definition and conception of illness has changed.

I'm sorry to hear that you are not feeling well but I don't think you should let an argument like this get in the way of doing whatever you need to take care of yourself

-Jester

Infinite_Jester wrote:Ssasz is accusing Psychiatrist's of misusing language. His argument can be standardized in the following way.

1. Things that are mental are not observable or demonstrable.
2. Illnesses are observable and demonstrable
3. Thus, mental illness is conceptually incoherent.
4. Therefore, there is no such thing as a mental illness.

Thanks for that, Jester. The way I look at the term "mental illness" is it is just a term society uses for the purpose of communication about the people labelled with a subset of the labels we have in the DSM. Thus, we assert someone with "schizophrenia" has a "mental illness" but someone with "autism" does not, and neither does someone just wanting to better themselves and thus goes in to counseling and gets the obligatory "adjustment disorder" diagnosis. Fibromyalgia is just a label for symptoms - luckily it is now considered an ICD (medical) diagnosis. But it wasn't always.

The way I see it, the term "mental illness" is just another cop-out term and a way to categorize and stigmatize. But that does not mean the people so labeled do not have an illness affecting their behavior and their thinking. The point is, we do not know the cause of any specific person's problem when they are thus labeled. For one person it may be due to fetal alcohol syndrome and a malformation of their brain. In another it may be a warped personality, and in another it may be a reaction to casomorphins and gliadorphins.

This has to do with who you love... Who and what you love will determine a direction of importance and interest...

If you love a child and they cant function and you know that they will not make it, you will become frantic and look for answers. If they die you will be stunned and in grief... it wont matter what caused it.. Instead.. their is a common sense that they would have not died unless their was a problem... again, it wont matter what the causes are if their is no love for them.. If it was mental perception problems that are causing death then one will be willing to look into this direction if they love the afflicted enough.

I am trying to keep up and survive like everyone else. If I fail to keep up, those around me that don't care about anything or anyone will not need to look for answers to the problems I have.. They are not hurting.. it is pain that motivates.. pain, fear hopelessness and confusion... The inability to eat. To take care of ones self causes pain. Theirs no time to ask if it is free will when one is dying..

You mentioned someone who wrote an article about anti mental illness.. This article is incorrect.. if something had happened to someone he truly loved and they were hanging on for dear life, and he was going to loose them, he would become the President of NAMI if that is what it would take to get inline and bring them back.. He would be the first to give them psych meds.. He would be the first to get them to a shrink, he would be the first person to get them on SSI if he had to... Only according to the level of love... He would not remember the anti psych articles he used to write. He would claim he never published such things as he is walking away in shame for ever doubting those in trouble in the first place.

I have to remember the kinds of people that are out their in LA lA land.. Just because they write an article doesn't mean their qualified as Human..

I live in a society of competition. If I cant compete Im out. Modern societies recognize these losses. Those that cant compete have rights as well as those that do. Someone has to stand up for these people or they parish.. The abstract concept of mental illness is an awareness used to describe certain forms of this inability to survive in society. IT is and should not be left in the hands of immature people to decide the fate of others..

Those that love will take the time to find the truth.. Those that love little , look for the truth little..

We as a society spend -Billions- of taxpayers dollars on the assumption that mental illness is real and we are helping people with mental illness? We are spending -Billions- of dollars on cancer research and we never seem to find a cure? We are spending -Trillions- of taxpayers dollars on poverty programs and we never seem to reduce poverty in America etc. etc. etc.. Is all of this a huge sort of con game and we the people are always being conned, just asking?

KINDNESSTHERAPY wrote:We as a society spend -Billions- of taxpayers dollars on the assumption that mental illness is real and we are helping people with mental illness? We are spending -Billions- of dollars on cancer research and we never seem to find a cure? We are spending -Trillions- of taxpayers dollars on poverty programs and we never seem to reduce poverty in America etc. etc. etc.. Is all of this a huge sort of con game and we the people are always being conned, just asking?

Mental illness, alone, as many can tell you, has loads of different kinds of medications being prescribed.
Many just for a singular diagnosis by itself.
Many people have multiple diagnoses though.
With all the money going to companies,
and going to employed psychiatrists who get dozens and dozens clients...
...well..perhaps being a psychiatrist wouldn't be such an aspiration anymore for people.
The money would be little.

so not much of an aspiration anymore
for that job
kind of like how people see getting a degree in philosophy is useless

if someone brought out a cure
then those psychiatrists would be seen as the quacks they are

except...
besides talking about problems being a "quack" thing
they'll think they are crazy to perhaps wanting to attain a job that doesnt pay well
they wont be taken seriously

just my 2 cents.

This has to do with who you love...

if something had happened to someone he truly loved and they were hanging on for dear life, and he was going to loose them, he would become the President of NAMI if that is what it would take to get inline and bring them back.. He would be the first to give them psych meds.. He would be the first to get them to a shrink, he would be the first person to get them on SSI if he had to... Only according to the level of love... He would not remember the anti psych articles he used to write. He would claim he never published such things as he is walking away in shame for ever doubting those in trouble in the first place.

No ofence, but personally this drive to do whatever you can if you are losing someone you love has nothing to do with your level of love for them. It is your fear of losing them and being without them, and not level of love. It is your fear of death. Or whatever you fear so terribly. It all depends also on what we are talking about: if a person harms others I don't think they should walk feely and I do think they should be ''treated'' in a way (too long subject). But if you are not harmful to others, I do not see the problem. Even if the person in question is seemingly harmful to itself. All the ''salvation'' you are talking about taking is just your own fear. In my personal opinion. If you love somebody you let them be. Or let them go.