treatment not the same as cure

I myself, and someone I know, went for help with our many mental problems. I was told that I could be anything I wanted in life, despite the number of severity of my illnesses, and if I didn't it was because I was choosing not to.
I then responded with what about these very real illnesses, caused by chemical problems in my brain?
Well, came the reply, that can be treated, and a treated mental illness is the same as not having one to begin with.
I would argue that no, what you are talking about is a CURE. Too often, well, all the time, I see the mental health community admitting mental illness can't be cured, yet acting as if treatment is just as good as a cure.
Treating something is not the same as getting rid of it entirely. It is still there, under the surface, ready to pop up and cause problems.
I don't think one should be a conspiracy theorist, seeing conspiracies under every bush. On the other hand, one can't be given over to blind faith in the medical community and claim there are no problems and you are guaranteed success.
I wonder if the medical community keeps saying "No cure, no cure," all the time, and instead espousing treatment, which they claim, (erroneously, I believe) is as good as a cure, for the sake of the tremendous amount of money there is to be made from the treatment of the mentally ill.
Any thoughts?

Of course, treatment is nothing like a cure. The reasons are obvious to most people:
- side effects
- remaining symptoms

All psychiatrists understand this very well since most patients complain about their treatment, except the naive ones who think that meds are magic or a gift from the god.

It is nonsense to say that you can achieve anything having a mental illness. You are limited by the factors I mentioned.

Medical treatments are here for just a few decades, so they are bound to be far from perfect. Scientists don't even exactly know how meds work. Most progress is achieved through trial and error on lab animals. This is just the beginning.

Mirage

Thanks for the reply.
I must be running into the wrong doctors, because all they have ever told me, as well as the staff at the local mental care facility, is that, while mental illness cannot be cured, with treatment one can lead every bit as fulfilling a life as someone with no mental illness whatsoever, in other words, living as if you were cured.
I agree that treatment is not and should not be considered as good as a cure.
I agree that we have a long way to go in treating illness.
I also agree it is nonsense to believe anyone with a mental illness can achieve anything anyone without one could. There are limitations. I would add to your examples often inadequate medical care, which the victim relies on in overcoming their illness, lack of support systems, and general prejudice against the mentally ill in society at large.
I myself would like to see effort, great effort, being geared towards actual cures, not just band-aid treatment.
Of course, as I said, in my opinion, it is quite possible that, given the billions of dollars to be made in the psych industry, we will not be seeing cures any time soon.

Doctors realize what I pointed out, but they have a very good reason to tell you that meds are super effective. It's the placebo effect. If somebody tells you that you're gonna feel amazing tomorrow after taking a pill, you might believe it so much that even if the pill is placebo, you are gonna feel amazing. My doctor says that this effect accounts for 50% of the result. In my case, the effect is pretty weak, because I'm quite sensitive to any symptoms or side effects, so it can't fool me.

I'm sure that no doctor would tell you that they gave you a cure though, which would be a lie.

My doctor also keeps telling me that my quality of life is good, but he only says this as a psychiatrist used to much worse cases. If he had the illness, I'm pretty sure he wouldn't be satisfied with his quality of life.

Actually, the support system in our country is very good, and it is a part of the treatment. I was even hospitalized, and my experiences are all good.

Prejudice is a problem, but only due to the less educated people I'd say. I have schizophrenia, my work colleagues accepted my illness, and many of them have been helping me with it to my great surprise. In fact, I have been advacing in my career. I do have problems socializing and stuff like that, so I wouldn't be a good manager, and it is not my goal anyway.

You are quite right that there is no drive for pharma companies to start working on cures. Even if the economics were different, they wouldn't know how to cure most illnesses, because they don't understand the causes. They are not always genetic either.

No doctor ever told me they gave me a cure. Doctors and staff have made it clear the treatment was, in the end, just as effective as a cure would be, if there were one, as with treatment my life would be the same as if I didn't have an illness.
I am glad you have never been misled this way, as it left me feeling confused and betrayed, as to why after extensive treatment things were only marginally better for me.


As far as support system, what I meant was friends and family.

I am very glad your hospital stays were good. Mine were less than stellar. I would reveal issues and the staff member would simply nod, saying ""Uh huh, uh huh....", clearly distracted and not focused or really interested in my problem.
Also, a doctor would stop by for perhaps 1 minute tops once a day, ask if you were ok, and whether you said yes or no, would simply say "Hmm." and leave. I got the bill and saw that that guy made a few hundred bucks a day for those rounds.
Once, I even overhead a staff member making rude remarks about my behavior. Hey, if you're going to bad mouth the patients, at least do it in private where it can't be overheard and affect our morale.
I was told that I had a say in my treatment, but when I questioned why what I thought was an important test wouldn't be done after all, I was told simply that that was just the way it was and not my concern, and when I questioned the effectiveness of a certain medication, I was simply told by the nurse that the doctor was the expert and I should just trust him. I guess by say they meant you could speak your mind, and have it ignored. I took it to mean having some control over the path your treatment actually took.


I myself have experienced prejudice from people in all walks of life. Perhaps by less educated you mean those less educated concerning mental illness, but if you meant those with only a high school diploma or less, I would say, personally, I have experienced prejudice from those, as well as those with master's degrees.


Finally, I think we need to do everything we can to understand the causes, so we can cure, instead of simply treat. I believe only in a cure will a person with mental illness truly be able to live life like everyone else.

Actually, they told me in one of the group sessions (psych education) that the illness usually lasts a year, and it will sometimes return. They also told me that some people have to take their meds their entire life, and I was just thinking "that will be me". So far, it seems I was right.

One doctor also told me that Zyprexa is one of the best meds, and I believed him, LOL. I was lucky not to have gotten diabetes.

I was hospitalized in the best facility in our country. I'm fully insured. The doctors were very supportive, and they did try to help me with my problems. With me, it was easy, because all they had to do was to explain it to me, and I tried to overcome my problems based on their advice. Othewise, talk therapies are useless in my case, because I don't believe in them.

I don't think that a cure is going to be enough though. The longer you have the illness, the more it changes your personality and mental processes. If you don't cure it during the first few months, it may be too late. It already changed me so much!

MirageXD wrote:Actually, they told me in one of the group sessions (psych education) that the illness usually lasts a year, and it will sometimes return. They also told me that some people have to take their meds their entire life, and I was just thinking "that will be me". So far, it seems I was right.

One doctor also told me that Zyprexa is one of the best meds, and I believed him, LOL. I was lucky not to have gotten diabetes.

I was hospitalized in the best facility in our country. I'm fully insured. The doctors were very supportive, and they did try to help me with my problems. With me, it was easy, because all they had to do was to explain it to me, and I tried to overcome my problems based on their advice. Othewise, talk therapies are useless in my case, because I don't believe in them.

I don't think that a cure is going to be enough though. The longer you have the illness, the more it changes your personality and mental processes. If you don't cure it during the first few months, it may be too late. It already changed me so much!

I really envy you. I am fully insured as well, but, given my mental problems, I haven't been able to garner the best jobs, which don't have the best insurance, which obviously leads to less than the best treatment.

I wish I had enough money to fly somewhere to the best facility, and stay there as long as it took.


In my case, my situation is very sad, as I have a GREAT deal of potential, in looks, talent, intelligence, etc, that has gone to waste and continues to go to waste due to my mental problems, which have not and are not getting adequate treatment due to my lack of money, due to my mental problems. Ah well, I guess it all originates in the mind, huh?

I agree that talk therapies don't work. How can someone simply sitting there listening to you actually change your mental problems? It may make you feel temporarily better to air your issues, but it is not going to alter your DNA or the chemical imbalances in your brain.


It is very discouraging to me to think that if you don't get the illness in the first few months it may be too late. I have been this way my entire life!

You don't have to have the best insurance to get into a good mental hospital (not in my country). After two weeks of waiting, they admitted me into Prague Psychiatric Center, which is located inside a huge sanatorium for mentally ill. It's a small village inside a city. It's a part of our most prestigious university, so they conduct various studies there. Doctors are often PhDs or professors. To be admitted, you have to be reasonably stable as well not to disturb other patients. I was submitted to various tests before they diagnosed me (CAT Scan, EEG, and the good old psychological examination). Before I was hospitalized there, I was in another section of the complex, and that was even better, because there was more freedom.

It must be pretty hard to live with your illness your entire life. It also means that it's going to be even harder to treat it, because your brain is so used to it. The longer you have it, the harder it is to change its course. In your case, it probably also means that it is genetic. I guess we'll have to wait for some gene therapy or something of that sort. In my case, it is also genetic.

agree about treatment and cure - they are not the same things, to cure something - unless it happens by accident, - generally you have to find the cause, which is something they haven't really done yet for ANY biological mental illness. people have only ever been cured so far by finding psychological causes.

Psychiatric medication is like giving paracetamol to someone who has a headache cause they've hit their head on something or due to stress. it kills the pain for both (the psychiatric med by changing chemical levels in the brain) but doesn't cure either. i'm not saying people should never take paracetamol, just that you wouldn't prescribe it as a cure for a skull fracture - or for stress.

Mirage, how did they prove it was genetic when they haven't been able to isolate genes for mental illness? (i know the media gets quite loud about "genes found for -") but most scientists will look at the data and admit its pretty inconclusive, even just talking about predisposition.

i'm not saying no mental illness is genetic - i'm admitting i dont know (what the professionals won't do.), what i'm saying is it sounds like they're doing the same thing again and when they can't find any other obvious cause - guessing.

katana wrote:Mirage, how did they prove it was genetic when they haven't been able to isolate genes for mental illness?

Because my father had it, too. How else would I get the same illness? Most likely, it was through DNA. I do admit that for some people, the illness is developmental. I already said that scientists do not know the real causes, so they can't cure it.