Anyone else agree?

I saw several posts on this site stating this opinion, and I have heard it personally from those in the psychiatric profession.
Basically, I have gifts and intelligence, and would love to be wildly successful with those things, but, at the same time, I realize I suffer from mental illness. And not just mild mental illness either.
I am severely developmentally disabled, and would be on the street or a group home if it weren't for the fact that I live with a "normal" adult who has assisted and covered for my shortcomings over the years.
I suffer from severe dissociate disorder. I hardly feel attached to my environment At all. I know it is not a dream, but my everyday existence strongly feels as if it were, even when people are directly addressing me. I have left the scenes of accidents, let workplace injuries go unreported, spent what little money I had on material goods rather than rent or food. I consider it a miracle I’m still alive.
I am also ADD, and OCD, and bi polar.
To me, coping with the basics takes most of my energy on a daily basis.
Now, I have complained how I would like to be very, very successful, like I have seen “normal” people achieve.
I get told, go for it, and if you don’t it’s your own fault.
I say, but my illnesses are preventing me.
I am told that, regardless of any illness, no matter how severe, I could achieve the same level of success as nay one without any mental illness, if I just tried. I am told mental illness is a stumbling block, but with a little effort it can be overcome like any other stumbling block, like poverty, etc.
I just don’t see the sense in that.
To me, that is saying your mind is a stumbling block, preventing you from achieving what you want in life. To overcome that, utilize…..that same stumbling block.
Ok. Use the broken part to fix the problems the broken part has created.
I think that’s convoluted logic and blaming the victim, and it saddens me that those in the psychiatric profession exposes it.
The idea that anyone, no matter what, can get whatever they want out of life if they just go fir it.
I agree that anyone, even the mentally ill, can be successful, but we need to be realistic about the level of success they can achieve.
You have to do what you can, with what you have, where you are.
And if you are in a low place in life, due to severe metal problems, you’re not going to go on t o be a CEO or a movie star, or whatever.
I don’t think that’s making excuses. I think that’s being realistic.
Anyone else have any thoughts?

What is your definition of "successful," and what exactly do you want to achieve?

Black Dove wrote:What is your definition of "successful," and what exactly do you want to achieve?

Ok, fair enough. I'll answer your question this way:

There are two mes. (Not multiple personalities.)

There is the very good looking, very talented, very intelligent and very ambitious individual whose definition of successful would be to have at least a million in the bank, and to have their talents recognized and rewarded.
He wants to (at one end of the scale) travel the world, be the creator of a science fiction franchise, or a famous photographer, or a stand up comedian, or a designer, or a graphic novelist, or a playwright, or novelist, or columnist, or even a combination of two or more of these things.
He wants to live in a loft apartment in a city, that he decorated himself. He wants to host and attend parties where he amuses with his wit. He wants to date models and actresses.

I realize at this point you must think I suffer from delusions of grandeur, but trust me when I say I can back up with facts my potential to be exactly this guy.


At the other end of the success scale, he wants to have a degree and a job where he feels creatively and intellectually fulfilled, where he is treated with respect and paid a decent wage.


Now. Although you didn't ask, who I also am is a middle aged, low paid janitor, who despises his job and has nothing in common with those he works with.
But who also may be autistic, is definitely severely developmentally disabled, has ADD and OCD, is bi polar, and is almost completely mentally detached from his own environment, and who has been diagnosed as borderline psychotic.
The way the world works, where any building , car, new invention, etc, started in somebody's head, and where everyone takes that for granted, just boggles my mind. That is how severe my illness is.
I simply don't get the basic fundamental way the world operates, that people are behind the changes. I know it, but I don't get it, and because I don't, I know that's why I am where I am instead of acheivng my potential.


I say that because I suspect your answer may be, as I have heard before, is I need to realistically do certain things in order to acheive my goals, and that is what I can't seem to do" deal with reality.

You have enough insight into what is going on within your mind and an ability to get ideas across with a vocabulary that is better than most. Those facts along with your desire to become a novelist suggest that you start writing.

"I don’t think that’s making excuses. I think that’s being realistic."

People often mistake realism for pessimism.

Is the glass half-empty, or half-full? Or, is the glass, in reality, always full; half with water and half with air?!

Seems like a matter of perspective, perhaps. Regardless, no one would berate you for complaining if, say, a Ferrari (in the car lot) cost you 3 times as much as it does for a "normal" person, (just because you are you) and you got mad and decided that you didn't even want a Ferrari at all, after knowing this. In this analogy, those people are telling you, "So what?! So, you have to work 3 jobs... Big deal. Quit crying. You can have a Ferrari too! So, get to work!"

I think people tell you that, like a mother tells her ugly child how pretty it is.

Also kind of reminds me of George Carlin's joke, "They call it the American Dream because you have to be asleep to believe it."

But, yeah, that's my pessimism/realism that most people don't care for, but you asked, so I'll let you know that I agree, and you are not alone.

In comparison, I once went to a psychiatrist because I had trouble keeping a job - I didn't want to work. He sent me to a career councilor, who basically said that she couldn't help me until I wanted to work..... Umm, someone who wants to work wouldn't need help wanting to work, idiots.

When I was going through all of this, years ago, it seemed like everyone around me worked for Nike marketing, or something. They all kept saying, "Just Do It!"

The analogies could go on forever... "When pigs fly." because pigs don't have wings. That's just an excuse. Now you get up there and start flying, this instance! No one would blame you if you couldn't fly because you don't have wings. And sometimes it's worse with mental disorders because they can't see the problem. It's like you are saying, "I can't fly, I have no wings." And they are saying, sure you do, they're right there, plain as day." (Then, probably accuse you of not wanting to use them. (the wings)) But if you were paralyzed, and in a wheelchair, no one would blame you for not trying hard enough to walk... that's absurd - and cruel. Even worse are people who don't know what their particular problem really is. They are supposed to fly, like everyone else, but they don't have wings - plus they don't even know that they don't have wings, if they even know that wings are needed, to fly. (quite convoluted, I know)

The bottom line is: If it's harder for you to earn the same reward as others, and said reward is, say, 3 times harder to acquire for you than it is for others, and the reward is really the only reason to put forth the effort, is it any surprise that you're not as motivated as others are?

Now, to be fair to the people who push this philosophy, they are on to something - something akin to a placebo effect, which has been proven to work. And that negativity isn't a good thing to have. But it's hard for the placebo to work, if you know it's only a sugar pill.

Thanks for the great reply.

I know and can see that "normal" people are able to change their reality because they are connected to it mentally in a way I am not.
When I identify and seek help with this disconnect, which I know is first necessary before I can seek to achieve my dream, I am ignored, patronized, and again told I am simply choosing to not change my life.
I have heard from others who agree that, depending on the severity of the illness, one may not be realistically able to achieve what they would like from life, even if they have the talents required.
I appreciate the thoughts, and it helps me to know I am not to blame for my life the way it is. I have real medical problems that haven't been addressed properly.
I agree that often realism is labeled pessimism.
People cheer that anyone can do anything they want, anywhere they are, regardless of anything in their way.
If you question that, you're labeled a downer and a troublemaker. I say you're being realistic, and why is that such a crime?
I feel you should try your best, but realistically, your best may be very, very minor, and you may only be able to achieve very little with it.
You are not choosing not to go further, you are simply doing your best with the limitations beyond your control that are in place.
There are things beyond people's control that affect how far they can soar, and there is nothing wrong with acknowledging that.
I agree that negativity isn't a good thing to have. I know I probably come across as negative, due to my knowledge of where I would be without these issues, and where I actually am instead.
I have gone to therapy and medication, and it has proven ineffective, then I get blamed for not making progress, instead of the "expert" doctors admitting they may not be giving me the best treatment, or that perhaps given my condition I can only go so far realistically.
But I am grateful for what I have. I could be on the street. I have someone who assists me in daily living.
And, regardless of the skepticism of the mental health industry, I do believe in God and am always praying that he will cure me one day, so I can set out on the path to my goals.

I have a few thoughts on your series of posts here.

1. You wrote:
"There is the very good looking, very talented, very intelligent and very ambitious individual whose definition of successful would be to have at least a million in the bank, and to have their talents recognized and rewarded.
He wants to (at one end of the scale) travel the world, be the creator of a science fiction franchise, or a famous photographer, or a stand up comedian, or a designer, or a graphic novelist, or a playwright, or novelist, or columnist, or even a combination of two or more of these things.
He wants to live in a loft apartment in a city, that he decorated himself. He wants to host and attend parties where he amuses with his wit. He wants to date models and actresses.

I realize at this point you must think I suffer from delusions of grandeur, but trust me when I say I can back up with facts my potential to be exactly this guy."

If I believed in God or some Grand Design, I might argue that She allows some of us "mental illness" precisely to keep us from becoming famous, rich, particularly innovative or some other special type of luminary who stands out from the generality of humanity. This is basically a culturally-taught image of success we inherit from living in a western country in the early 21st century. It is not a healthy model to accept. Many - most (?) - people who achieve the limelight do not in fact have happy lives. As I'm sure you know, at least some of them do suffer from what is termed "mental illness," so even there, such a life would not offer a "cure" or even an "improvement."

(I'll come back to this after a while. Need to run and take care of something else here. hehe)

"[...]it helps me to know I am not to blame for my life the way it is."

This is an important point. I can understand the "don't use it as an excuse" part, but there's a flip-side to this all, in that many people were blamed for their shortcomings throughout life (and childhood). It was all their fault for not being like everyone else. It can be a relief to realize that you're not really lazy/stupid/bad/evil, what-have-you.

this is why i resist psychiatric labels and piss on the DSM as much as i want to feel all of the #######4 identities flow through me. if i accept them i become them and there's no way out. (exception being ADD, maybe... but i wonder if the cognitive issues associated with it can be tamed with healthy life habits and a little more discipline and different routines than the average person)

let's just turn to creative endeavors and retaliate against the world that doesn't understand us.

real talk though, you seem intelligent enough to understand some really significant fundamentals, past all of the #######4, through communication/experience. everything comes back to the human individual once you know how the human individual operates, you can understand pretty much anything in the world.

BTW just a tip, there is a most significant discrepancy between blame and fault. blame has to do with victimizing yourself and focusing on injustice, fault has to do with recognizing the source of an issue and finding solutions. most people take things personally... bad human habit. stunts growth.

'tis the way of the world to have the masses chasing impossible dreams, the American Dream and others – keep them working hard for something hardly any can achieve - keeps this pyramidical society functioing - and those at the top by luck or birth or effort can watch the rest try to climb up to the top of the heap - personally most of the time I can't be bothered making the effort - but while I perceive that my chances of achieving my dreams are slim, the old adage “where there’s life, there’s hope” also applies and I like to DREAM and hope that I might be one of the lucky ones.
So I buy a real or metaphorical lottery ticket from time to time.

If I do not win, I try not to feel bad about wasting money
If someone else wins and I did not buy a ticket, I try not to grudge them their good fortune or kick myself too much for not entering
If I ever do win it I will try not to act like I deserve it because I am superior, as some “self-made” people do – most things are part effort and part luck.
I get that you perceive that it is more difficult for you to enter or win - because you live so far from the place that sells tickets – or whatever metaphor for the “handicap” of mental illness works for you – but if you did win, people would applaud your effort even more. Maybe there is some "Free bus" for those who live far away positive discrimination vehicle you could use for the journey?

So enter the lottery of life, fame, fortune, success or millions if you will, or don’t – but don’t beat yourself up about it either way.
Let those others, including your Psychiatrists chase it if they want, they are just materialistic little humans too, chasing money and power and status. If that doesn’t motivate you personally I consider that proof of a certain type of sanity – and detachment from worldly things that a Buddhist monk might be proud to have cultivated.
Anyway if you are that intelligent and good looking maybe those things are compensations for the illness in the lottery/race of life?
Spare a thought for thick and ugly mentally ill people!