God is the answer to all your problems

God is the answer to all our problems yes but that does not necessarily mean that we do not seek help in a physical sense... Remember Jesus used dirt (a physical thing) to heal the blind... The point is there are things that need to be solved through means that are not purely spiritual, God knows this and the world is not something that we should shun... There are many beautiful things in this world so whatever is in it like science or medicine for example is God's gift to us...

Learned this from Theo class... I believe in God but not in religion!

ChosenOne wrote:When was the last time you saw "the dead rising or the sea parting"?

i have not started a religion, ergo my having not seen the dead rise or the sea part has little relevance to the issue of whether those type of events might be the catalyst for the formation of some or all religions.

ChosenOne wrote:There are many questions left. How did the 1st life being, where, what conditions, etc. There are many questions left in the cosmos. What triggered the big bang, how common are they, will we ever see another universe, etc.

seems as if the answer to one or more of these questions is likely to be dog spelled backward.
shrug. did you want to argue some more?

MartianRobotGirl wrote:

ChosenOne wrote:It's not arrogant to demand evidence before accepting outrageous claims as correct.
It's just rational.

Know what's arrogant? To claim some "god" for which there is no evidence of any kind actually exists, then demand everyone in the world accept that unsupportable belief, or face eternal fiery punishment. That's arrogance.



-- Fri Dec 09, 2011 7:41 am --

I still find myself wanting to reach through your screen and slap you so hard your teeth slam together

I actually do that in my mind when I am frustrated about something (physical violence). If it helps you to return to a rational mental state, then give it a try ! You have nothing to lose at all

I don't believe in God and you aren't changing my mind.
"Return to a rational state"
###$ you.
Just because you carry yourself as if you're better than the next guy, doesn't mean you are.
I simply found myself annoyed at your refusing to accept the idea that you aren't converting anyone, bro.
Giveit a rest already.You wannabe all into God? good for you. Whatever helps you sleep at night.

Did you even bother to read the post properly ? I'm not trying to convert anyone. I am atheist.

@Quinta

Correct, but I do have a tremendous amount of respect for scientists who dedicate their lives to, say, eradicating diseases or learning more about our planet and universe. But guess what? Some of them are God-believers. Shock, horror. Science has made a great many things possible and has provided a wealth of information. That information, however, is still next to nothing within the context of a potentially infinite universe.

Our knowledge increases because of science, not because of religion. I'm aware that some scientists believe one or more gods exist. But science doesn't show that one or more gods exist. And if those particular scientists who are theists can keep their superstitions from interfering in their practice of science, then that's great. When they can't, then their work suffers and it can't withstand skeptical inquiry. In other words, bad science.

Ancient cultures, like the Mesopotamians, the Sumerians, and the Egyptians, made great advancements in fields like math, astronomy, architecture, metallurgy, etc. They made these advances, however, not *because* of their belief in whatever their respective gods were, but *in spite* of them.

Newton, who revolutionized humanity's understanding of mechanics, was a Christian theologian. He believed in God. He also believed in alchemy.

Now, what was his contribution to mankind, again? His work in physics, or his work in mythology?

That information, however, is still next to nothing within the context of a potentially infinite universe.

I also detest the pride of and advocacy of ignorance. The Universe is not potentially infinite. It has a finite bound defined by its total mass and gravity.

Would you like me to list all the genocidal maniac atheists of the 20th century? I never once claimed religion wasn't responsible for many heinous acts, but if an individual wants to believe without hurting or forcing their beliefs onto others, how is that a problem?

Genocidal maniac atheists do not commit heinous acts because they do not believe in a god. Genocidal maniac theists, however, very often commit heinous acts in the name of their god.

Individual, private belief is fine.

Would you like me to list all the genocidal maniac atheists of the 20th century?

I would be more interested in seeing a list of books you have read, written by actual historians, as opposed to something you read from some half-assed web site

Good luck with your journey

seems as if the answer to one or more of these questions is likely to be dog spelled backward. shrug. did you want to argue some more?

The good old god of the gaps,I haven't seen that one for a while...

Oh, sure, simply assume anything we can't explain is the result of an imagined magical being for which there is no evidence of any kind.......Not.

Why would you even go to school?

The only question to which the answer is 'God' is: "What notion has man invented to subjugate the populous?"

All the rest ether have been effectively answered by science or philosophy or do not have a valid answer yet.

Argue some more ? Sure.... when do you start ?

ChosenOne wrote:Argue some more ? Sure.... when do you start ?

He sees many things, but does not observe them; his ears are open, but he does not hear.
- Isaiah 42:20

1. life on earth was present early, within a few hundred million years and possibly earlier, after the earth cooled sufficiently to support liquid water.

2. there are many regions of the earth isolated from the rest (subterranean) of the planet for the tens or hundreds of millions of years that it would take to evolve life from , and yet THERE IS NO EVIDENCE OF MORE THAN ONE ORIGIN OF LIFE ON THIS PLANET. every cellular organism on this planet, and that includes every known organism, is related and there are no known exceptions.

3. the lack of any independent origin of life, even given that there is a substantial soup of biological chemicals and the conditions are easy on this planet and there are pockets of 'no life' that meet these conditions and have been for the last 4bn years, establishes that the time to evolve cellular life exceeds the 100 mya window on this planet beginning with no life but conditions allowing for life, and ended with cellular life.

4. therefore, the origin of the cellular life on this planet is not of this planet but necessarily occurred outside this planet. this planet was seeded with cellular life within the first hundred million years of the formation of the solar system, and the origin of these seeds is from outside our solar system.

5. because it can be established/estimated that the origin of life can be expected to take a billion years or more (based on the lack of independent origins of life on earth). where did this life come from?

6. the answer is found 13 billion years ago.

7. the universe is a pretty big place, but 13 billion years ago (1bn years after the big bang and the start of the universe), it was a lot smaller (same amount of matter, just compacted into a smaller ball). The same conditions as are required for life, and which are found on earth, were also found on a zillion other earth-like rocky planets in this early universe. On one of these planets, cellular life clawed its way out of the ether, and proceeded as on our planet to slowly evolve with the breathing of gaia. Similar to life on our planet, life there was likely unicellular for a long time, before multicellularity and eventually intelligence took root. Perhaps, like our planet this took 4 billion years (although, as in any complex event there will be some that are quicker than others). So then, 1 billion years to evolve cellular life, and the 4 billion to evolve intelligent life. So merely 5 billion years into the history of the universe, and likely in a galaxy far far away, we have the first intelligent life.

8. It is necessary that this early intelligent life, develop the technology to travel to other stars, and this would have to be faster than light travel (or time travel). There must be a gradient to technology by which the gods themselves are judged. Based on the J curve for technology this may only take a million years or less.

9. so then in the various corners of the universe you have different intelligent life evolving and then expanding as they develop godlike technologies to move and influence the universe.

10. an intelligent life form may consciously spread the seeds of life as far as it can, and then allow 'natural' evolution to take over. perhaps these gods sit back and watch what happens, perhaps hoping that something comes out of the soup that has something to offer them, something new.

11. if you accept that there are intelligent godlike creatures that seeded life, it is not far to assume that these same creatures may take an active role in supervising their creation.

12. the various stories of miracles and contact with gods or demons may just be man interacting with messengers, emissaries or these gods themselves.

13. religion is just an attempt by these gods to sway mankind, presumably for 'good', although who really knows the motives of god or gods.

marycarterpaint wrote:

ChosenOne wrote:Argue some more ? Sure.... when do you start ?

He sees many things, but does not observe them; his ears are open, but he does not hear.
- Isaiah 42:20

1. life on earth was present early, within a few hundred million years and possibly earlier, after the earth cooled sufficiently to support liquid water.

2. there are many regions of the earth isolated from the rest (subterranean) of the planet for the tens or hundreds of millions of years that it would take to evolve life from , and yet THERE IS NO EVIDENCE OF MORE THAN ONE ORIGIN OF LIFE ON THIS PLANET. every cellular organism on this planet, and that includes every known organism, is related and there are no known exceptions.

3. the lack of any independent origin of life, even given that there is a substantial soup of biological chemicals and the conditions are easy on this planet and there are pockets of 'no life' that meet these conditions and have been for the last 4bn years, establishes that the time to evolve cellular life exceeds the 100 mya window on this planet beginning with no life but conditions allowing for life, and ended with cellular life.

4. therefore, the origin of the cellular life on this planet is not of this planet but necessarily occurred outside this planet. this planet was seeded with cellular life within the first hundred million years of the formation of the solar system, and the origin of these seeds is from outside our solar system.

5. because it can be established/estimated that the origin of life can be expected to take a billion years or more (based on the lack of independent origins of life on earth). where did this life come from?

6. the answer is found 13 billion years ago.

7. the universe is a pretty big place, but 13 billion years ago (1bn years after the big bang and the start of the universe), it was a lot smaller (same amount of matter, just compacted into a smaller ball). The same conditions as are required for life, and which are found on earth, were also found on a zillion other earth-like rocky planets in this early universe. On one of these planets, cellular life clawed its way out of the ether, and proceeded as on our planet to slowly evolve with the breathing of gaia. Similar to life on our planet, life there was likely unicellular for a long time, before multicellularity and eventually intelligence took root. Perhaps, like our planet this took 4 billion years (although, as in any complex event there will be some that are quicker than others). So then, 1 billion years to evolve cellular life, and the 4 billion to evolve intelligent life. So merely 5 billion years into the history of the universe, and likely in a galaxy far far away, we have the first intelligent life.

8. It is necessary that this early intelligent life, develop the technology to travel to other stars, and this would have to be faster than light travel (or time travel). There must be a gradient to technology by which the gods themselves are judged. Based on the J curve for technology this may only take a million years or less.

9. so then in the various corners of the universe you have different intelligent life evolving and then expanding as they develop godlike technologies to move and influence the universe.

10. an intelligent life form may consciously spread the seeds of life as far as it can, and then allow 'natural' evolution to take over. perhaps these gods sit back and watch what happens, perhaps hoping that something comes out of the soup that has something to offer them, something new.

11. if you accept that there are intelligent godlike creatures that seeded life, it is not far to assume that these same creatures may take an active role in supervising their creation.

12. the various stories of miracles and contact with gods or demons may just be man interacting with messengers, emissaries or these gods themselves.

13. religion is just an attempt by these gods to sway mankind, presumably for 'good', although who really knows the motives of god or gods.

Quotes from holy books are usually pointless to today's society and meaningless when addressing subjects better answered by science and mathematics.


As for the wall of text.....your caps lock seems to have got stuck at one point. You make a number of very interesting and very good points. I particularly like #10, as it makes as much sense (if not more) then the traditional 'goddidit' response to the creation of the universe, this planet, and life.

If you did all this research and analysis yourself, good job. You deserve a big gold star.

marycarterpaint wrote:11. if you accept that there are intelligent godlike creatures that seeded life, it is not far to assume that these same creatures may take an active role in supervising their creation.

Psychiatrists, that's what they do, they supervise for some nefarious purpose.
They say the DSM will set me free, if I confess to them.
They want my brain, that's what they are after.

ChosenOne wrote:You deserve a big gold star.

thanks but i'm holding out for a ten billion trillion trillion carat diamond.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/3492919.stm

Tungsten wrote:

marycarterpaint wrote:11. if you accept that there are intelligent godlike creatures that seeded life, it is not far to assume that these same creatures may take an active role in supervising their creation.

Psychiatrists, that's what they do, they supervise for some nefarious purpose.
They say the DSM will set me free, if I confess to them.
They want my brain, that's what they are after.

for now, ignore the witch doctors. you'll get your answers in a decade or two, when the underlying genetics are preliminarily understood. in the meantime, hold steady, freddy.

Ok, I am going to wait here.