Coercive Psychiatry, Right, Wrong or just dont know?

Hi Kathy and Angel,

I think this is a very relevant (10 day old) news article regarding coercive psychiatry. It is un-biased and covers most sides of the issues. I've posted it just as a start as I'm sure you will find it interesting.

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This coming June, Kendra's Law expires and there is a great deal of debate if this law should be made permanent. Kendras law that was passed in 1999, partly as a response to the death of Kendra Webdale, a young woman who was pushed into the subway tracks by a schizophrenic man.

Law to Force Mental Illness Treatment Raises Ire of Civil Libertarians

http://newstandardnews.net/content/index.cfm/items/1693

Coercive Psychiatry, Right, Wrong or just dont know?

This is an issue that has troubled me ever since I was committed to a psych hospital many years ago....and even recently...last summer when my 21 yr old son was hospitalized. In both cases both he and I lost our right to be a part of the treatment plan. I eventually went along with the plan and was out of the hospital in about 3 mos. My son refused treatment...hence it went to court and we are still paying the bill for the attorney. That makes no sense to me whatsoever. The hospital hires an attorney to go to court to get orders for my son to comply with treatment...and he & I are stuck with the bill.

I read the posted article...each and every word and I do have just some general comments...but back to the struggle that plagues me more than it seems to bother my son.

I think I have stated before what happened to him a year ago...but I will recap the highlights.

In the winter of 2004 he quit taking his meds. I don't blame him for that. He was on so many different meds and most of them were at such huge doses that I don't know how he functioned as well as he did. So, he quit taking them. Four mos later he grew horrified by his hallucinations and the voices he heard. One Sunday evening he had a friend take him to the ER of a hospital. From there on his fate no longer rested in his hands but that of the court and hospital.

I don't want to go into too much detail....I respect his right to his own privacy ( He DID give me permission to share what I have shared). To get to the chase...he was homicidal. So I could understand the hospital wanting to at least keep him for observation. But it was not his will that he be put back on meds. That is where the attorney came in & my "I don't know" ....of course the attorney got the order to force my son to comply with the treatment. This is an area I struggle with. They becan giving him massive doses of haldol...a med which scares me half to death. Were they right in forcing myh son to takes a med that brought him to reality fast? I feel so torn as to whether this was right or wrong....I just don't know.

Anyways, on to some of the points made in the article that really spoke to me:

David Gonzalez, a peer specialist at the Mental Health Empowerment Project, a support group for mental health consumers and survivors, gave a patient’s perspective of forced treatment when voluntary treatment is in short supply, commenting ironically, "[If] I seek treatment voluntarily, I’m denied services, but if I’m willing to forfeit all of my constitutional rights, I can get all the treatment I want."

This is so true...and I see it happening to so many people. Friends my son used to have...the poor....homeless. It's shocking to see but is true

In the two pages of a 64-page report dedicated to evaluating the opinions of treatment recipients, the OMH stated that of the 76 outpatients interviewed, approximately 60 percent reported that "all things considered, being court-ordered into treatment has been a good thing for them."

My son agrees with this statement. When he was considered psychotic he refused treatment. After receiving treatment for about a week he signed himself voluntarily into the hospital. Even now he is glad that they reevaluated his meds and considerably lowered the number and dosage of each med he takes.

Technically, Kendra’s Law enables the patient "to actively participate in the development of the treatment plan." But Dennis Feld, a lawyer with Mental Hygiene Legal Services, which represents petition subjects in nearly all hearings, said that in his experience, patient input is "minimal," since "for the most part, the plan’s already in place" before the patient is consulted.

Neither my son nor anyone in the family were given an active part by the hospital regarding his treatment plan. I feel that my son should at least have been a part of that decision making team.

Although Kendra’s Law professes to be "compassionate, not punitive," any court-ordered treatment, in Allen’s view, "conveys to the public that these people are damaged, dysfunctional, dangerous – ‘better that you get them away from you and me.’"

To me this is very disheartening. My extended family refuse to educate themselves on mental health issues...hence they are afraid of what they don't understand.

The Corporation for Supportive Housing (CSH), an organization that advocates for "assisted living" housing projects across the country, looks for ways to inspire, not coerce, a commitment to treatment. CSH programs combine housing with intensive therapy. The group supports urban housing projects that engage an underserved group similar to one of AOT’s target populations: homeless individuals, largely black and male, who have battled with mental illness, drugs, and incarceration.

While in the hospital my son tried to get into as Assisted Living Program. After doing some testing on him they decided that he was too high functioning to be accepted. Hence...he still lives with me.

Drawing from her experiences with supportive housing clients, Wilkins reflected that coercive mental health programs tend to push people away because they "require people to give up a degree of autonomy, and dignity, and control over their own lives that is not acceptable."

To have no control over one's own destiny is deplorable!

Well, this is quite possible the longest post I have ever written...and it is 11:30 pm and I have to be up early for work.

I will look forward to reading others opinions. Hopefully someone can help me resolve my issues

Kathy

Ps) I apologize for any typos....I usually make a ton of them and tonight I am too tired to profread this reply. How I wish we had spell check here

Kathy,

I tried to reply to your post but the technical problems I have navigating this forum make it fairly much impossible.

Has psych forums completed up grading! Going by your above post you haven't had any problems. Is everything operating normal for you?

The only way I can get anything to work is to click on it while its loading, I have about 5-10 seconds to do it or it freezes. This is the only site where I have a problem like this, could be a technical problem at psych forums end?

Thanks.
It's very frustrating.

Shrink resistant,

I don't have any of the problems with the site that you are experiencing. I did get up very early this morning and I added a few more comments to my reply. Is it possible that you were replying at the same time I was editing? Or is this a problem you have on a consistent basis? It also possible that Sean was working on the site...but I don't know if he is up in the very early hour I get up (I started editing at around 5 am)

Please try and reply again, will you?

Thanks,
Kathy

I have not had a chance to read over everything to reply on the main content of this thread!!....but I wanted to note...I OFTEN have problems on this site. Especially if I decide to delete my post...I often get error messages and instead of deleting just my post....it will delete the whole thread or something....or sometimes after mins. of trying to load the page...my browser will freeze....don't have problems like that w/ any other site I go to! ....I have a few problems...but I love the site so much I put up w/ it!!

LOL Wouldn't you know it...I have to take back what I said about navigating this site. Just this afternoon everything seems to be bogged down and running very slowly. Just when I think I get something posted things seem to freeze up on me. I don't know if it's my pc or the site.

So...yes there are a few problems navigating for me today ...but I don't let it stop me...at least hopefully not

Kathy

Hi Kathy,

I can understand your angst regarding your sons court ordered treatment, what a terrible outcome.
It's a very familiar story.

In that news article there were a few comments on the effectiveness of court ordered outpatient treatment. There are not enough studies on this subject but here's one of the few.

http://www.bazelon.org/issues/commitmen ... tudies.htm

It clearly shows that forced treatment has no real effect or outcome, in fact, if the patient was provided with voluntary treatment the same outcome's could be expected.

I think I'll stop here and wait for any comment on this, don't feel you have to comment either.

Shrink resistant,

Thanks for your reply. I have to be up REALLY early tomorrow morning. My son has been having small seizures and he is scheduled for a very early CAT scan at a local hospital. After I get home from that I will read the link you posted.

I can understand your angst regarding your sons court ordered treatment, what a terrible outcome.
It's a very familiar story.

Guess who is paying the bill for the attorney? Yes...my son and I.

I looked up anti-psychiatry at google.com. I was amazed that all of the links that came up. I didn't know that the issue has been written about so very many times.

Gotta get some sleep

Kathy

Kathy,

I don't know what to suggest about your attorneys bill? I don't know your system at all. Is it a standard thing to get hit with a bill like that? Do you have any free legal advise centers you could discuss the issues with? Have you complained to your local politicians about it. It seems wrong, but I don't know.

Don't feel oblidged to read all of this article.

It basically is a study that demonstrates forced treatment has the the same outcomes as voluntary treatment.

Here are some bullet points from the article that state forced treatment had:

no additional improvement in patient compliance with treatment;
no additional increase in continuation of treatment;
no differences in rates of hospitalization;
no differences in lengths of hospital stay; and
no difference in arrests or violent acts committed."

The point I'm trying to make is forced treatment doesn't work! It achieves very little. It has no effect on violence or suicide rates. 14 of my freinds have commited suicide while on CTO's. The whole violence issue is non-existent as far as I'm concerned. Statistically more people are violently attacked by asthmatics and diabetics than people with SZ. Psychiatry knows people with SZ aren't violent. Forced psychiatry is a sham. It does more damage than good.

PS, Your right, the anti psych survivor movement is huge.

Shrink resistant,

Regarding the attorney bill. I have argued the issue with the hospital and the attorney. Neither will budge and I don't want this going of my son's credit report so I will just have to pay it.

There were several times in my life when I was forced to go inpatient. About 21 yrs ago I became anorectic to the point of death. My psychiatrist was willing to do anything to eep me alive and so was my husband. He made it clear that if I refused to go in patient to receive IV feeding...then he would get a court order to force me to go.

I was in the hospital hooked up to this IV for about a week. The only way for me to get out was for me to pretend that I was better so I began eating on my own. I was discharged that very same day and within a day went right back to my old eating habit. My weight waw about 73 lbs and I was REALLY thin.

My point is that by forcing me to go into a hospital and received treatment...nothing good came out of it.

I get your point that forced hospitalzations don't work. Hypothetically I'll pose a scenario. What if you were one of my son's friends and you knew that he was out in society seeking to kill anyone that resembled ET. How would you have handled that situation?

Kathy