Hearing voices or electronic harassment?

We've already looked at the evidence in another thread. Here were the conclusions:


In "Microwaves and Behaviour", the article that you cited [in the other thread], the author writes that:

" Communication has in fact been demonstrated. A. Guy (Note 1), a skilled telegrapher, arranged for his father, a retired railroad' telegrapher, to operate a key, each closure and opening of which resulted in radiation of a pulse of microwave energy. By directing the radiations at his own head, complex messages via the Continental Morse Code were readily received by Guy." (396) (Justesen, 1975).

They used the clicking noises that electromagnetic energy causes people to experience to give someone codes like "click click -pause- click -pause- click". Again this is not similar in anyway to hearing voices.

Furthermore, Sharp and Groove used no test subjects. Instead, they were able to train themselves to distinguish between the numbers 1-9 when played to themselves through electromagnetic energy. This only shows that the "clicks, buzzes, knocks" sound different depending on the original sound that is being transformed and that through extenisive training someone may be able to tell the difference between one "click" and a "buzz". Nowhere does this research indicate that electromagnetic energy can sound like a voice or communicate whole meaningful sentences of the English language to a test subject with no training.

[...]

Frey writes in his paper "Modulated electromagnetic energy" that the subjects had electromagnetic energy focused on them which induced a "pins-and -needles" sensation" which was further "described as being a buzz, clicking, hiss, or knocking" sound. This is not similar at all to hearing voices. How someone could mistake this for auditory hallucinations or believe that electromagnetic energy could be used to produce voice-like sounds is beyond me. I think [the author of this post] never read the article.

Going back to the main points:

(1) Subliminal sounds are just quiet sounds not special sounds
(2) The neurobiological explanation of auditory hallucinations is the only theory in the empricial sciences that has been tested and stands up to falsification.
(3) Electromagnetic Radiation has only ever been demonstrated to cause people to hear buzzing, hizzing and knocking sounds which are not anything similar to voices.
(4) The only form of communication possible with electromagnetic radiation is the communication of "clicks" in the form of the Continental Morse Code.
(5) An individual can train themselves to distinguish between simple sounds like the numbers played through the form of electromagnetic energy. However, this does not mean that the technology can sound like a voice or communicate whole meaningful sentences of the English language to a test subject with no training.

Voice to skull has been debunked. It does not exist because the laws of physics and neurobiology is such that it could not exist. Just because something like Tylenol causes someone to hearing ringing in the ears does not mean that it can be used to communicate whole meaningful sentences of the English language. The same goes for electromagnetic energy.

Please take care of yourself.
-Jester

Infinite_Jester wrote:Voice to skull has been debunked. It does not exist because the laws of physics and neurobiology is such that it could not exist.

Not so fast, buster.

United States Patent 4,858,612. Stocklin, 22 August 1989.

A method and apparatus for simulation of hearing in mammals by introduction of a plurality of microwaves into the region of the auditory cortex is shown and described. A microphone is used to transform sound signals into electrical signals which are in turn analyzed and processed to provide controls for generating a plurality of microwave signals at different frequencies. The multifrequency microwaves are then applied to the brain in the region of the auditory cortex. By this method sounds are perceived by the mammal which are representative of the original sound received by the microphone.

United States Patent 4,877,027. Brunkan, 31 October 1989.

Sound is induced in the head of a person by radiating the head with microwaves in the range of 100 megahertz to 10,000 megahertz that are modulated with a particular waveform. The waveform consists of frequency modulated bursts. Each burst is made up of ten to twenty uniformly spaced pulses grouped tightly together. The burst width is between 500 nanoseconds and 100 microseconds. The pulse width is in the range of 10 nanoseconds to 1 microsecond. The bursts are frequency modulated by the audio input to create the sensation of hearing in the person whose head is irradiated.

United States Patent 5,159,703. Lowery, October, 27 1992.

A silent communications system in which nonaural carriers, in the very low or very high audio frequency range or in the adjacent ultrasonic frequency spectrum, are amplitude or frequency modulated with the desired intelligence and propagated acoustically or vibrationally, for inducement into the brain, typically through the use of loudspeakers, earphones or piezoelectric transducers. The modulated carriers may be transmitted directly in real time or may be conveniently recorded and stored on mechanical, magnetic or optical media for delayed or repeated transmission to the listener.

United States Patent 3,951,134. Malech, 20 April 1976.

Apparatus for and method of sensing brain waves at a position remote from a subject whereby electromagnetic signals of different frequencies are simultaneously transmitted to the brain of the subject in which the signals interfere with one another to yield a waveform which is modulated by the subject's brain waves. The interference waveform which is representative of the brain wave activity is re-transmitted by the brain to a receiver where it is demodulated and amplified. The demodulated waveform is then displayed for visual viewing and routed to a computer for further processing and analysis. The demodulated waveform also can be used to produce a compensating signal which is transmitted back to the brain to effect a desired change in electrical activity therein.

There are hundreds of similar patents.
All rubbish in your opinion, because laws of neurobiology say no?

Infinite_Jester wrote:Frey writes in his paper "Modulated electromagnetic energy" that the subjects had electromagnetic energy focused on them which induced a "pins-and -needles" sensation" which was further "described as being a buzz, clicking, hiss, or knocking" sound.

Those sounds are heard when Frey was experimenting with different types of signals, not transmitting voice. Frey did not experiment with voice.

One radar pulse produces one click.

A radar set emits pulses spaced uniformly. Such a train of clicks produces, expectedly, a buzz.

When you control the clicks with a voice waveform, you can get a good representation of voice or music from just single clicks, timed properly. This is a primitive form of "digital audio."

You can demonstrate that voice or music can be synthesized from properly timed clicks in a little circuit resembling a 555 timer tachometer driver, in this article which also contains the Sharp and Grove successful demonstration of pulsed microwave voice to skull:

http://www.randomcollection.info/ampsychv2s.pdf

I did that at work for some of my co-workers, who were surprised, but could clearly hear the music which had been converted to a string of uniform pulses.

Hey Eleanor,

We already went over Junsenen's article. You can read what he wrote. You don't need to repost it. Also, all of the patents don't demonstrate that these technologies can communicate whole meaningful sentences of the English language to a target long distances.

Your not paying attention to what the patent's are saying and what Junsensen wrote. Here's a review of the Justesen article:

Infinite_Jester wrote:
In "Microwaves and Behaviour", the article that you cited [in the other thread], the author writes that:

" Communication has in fact been demonstrated. A. Guy (Note 1), a skilled telegrapher, arranged for his father, a retired railroad' telegrapher, to operate a key, each closure and opening of which resulted in radiation of a pulse of microwave energy. By directing the radiations at his own head, complex messages via the Continental Morse Code were readily received by Guy." (396) (Justesen, 1975).

They used the clicking noises that electromagnetic energy causes people to experience to give someone codes like "click click -pause- click -pause- click". Again this is not similar in anyway to hearing voices.

Furthermore, Sharp and Groove used no test subjects. Instead, they were able to train themselves to distinguish between the numbers 1-9 when played to themselves through electromagnetic energy. This only shows that the "clicks, buzzes, knocks" sound different depending on the original sound that is being transformed and that through extenisive training someone may be able to tell the difference between one "click" and a "buzz". Nowhere does this research indicate that electromagnetic energy can sound like a voice or communicate whole meaningful sentences of the English language to a test subject with no training.

Just to update my list of points:

(1) Subliminal sounds are just quiet sounds not special sounds
(2) The neurobiological explanation of auditory hallucinations is the only theory in the empricial sciences that has been tested and stands up to falsification.
(3) Electromagnetic Radiation has only ever been demonstrated to cause people to hear buzzing, hizzing and knocking sounds which are not anything similar to voices.
(4) The only form of communication possible with electromagnetic radiation is the communication of "clicks" in the form of the Continental Morse Code.
(5) An individual can train themselves to distinguish between simple sounds like the numbers played through the form of electromagnetic energy. However, this does not mean that the technology can sound like a voice or communicate whole meaningful sentences of the English language to a test subject with no training.
(6) None of the patented technologies that can produce auditory sensations via electromagnetic energy or microwaves have been demonstrated to communicate whole meaningful sentences of the English language to a target subject.

Cliff Huylebroeck wrote:All rubbish in your opinion, because laws of neurobiology say no?

I didn't say it was rubbish. I just look at the evidence and the evidence shows points (1) through (6) to be true. If you have anything else I would love to take a look at it. Until then it's probably best to talk to someone or seek some help even if it is just to talk about some of your ideas.

Take care. Jester.

BTW - If your going to bring up the Justesen or Frey articles please read them first. Don't keep linking them over and over again. Neither article supports the existence of technologies that can communicate whole meaningful sentences of the English language.

Infinite_Jester wrote:Hey Eleanor,
We already went over Junsenen's article. You can read what he wrote. You don't need to repost it. Also, all of the patents don't demonstrate that these technologies can communicate whole meaningful sentences of the English language to a target long distances.

OK, have you ever heard of a prototype that works being improved later?

Sharp's experiment was 39 years ago.

Apparently the technology HAS been improved even by the unclassified standard - see the Navy SBIR project notes in the article:

http://www.randomcollection.info/ampsychv2s.pdf, near the bottom.

I agree that patents don't prove a technology works, but that SBIR item says not only has the principle been demonstrated but that it can transmit loud noises.

As to distance - as long as the signal strength can be maintained - as by a maser - the signal can be heard as long as the aiming can be done.

Hattie wrote:But what about the tactile and visual hallucinations? Is there really technology available that can manipulate your brain so completely?

Yes, it exists.

See: http://www.mindjustice.org/symptoms.htm

-- Fri Feb 17, 2012 7:09 pm --

EleanorW wrote:OK, have you ever heard of a prototype that works being improved later?

Sharp's experiment was 39 years ago.

If we compare today's computers with the computers from 39 years ago: they are indeed improved. If voice to skull has been improved at the same rate, then we may expect that science fiction has become reality.

Infinite_Jester wrote:(6) None of the patented technologies that can produce auditory sensations via electromagnetic energy or microwaves have been demonstrated to communicate whole meaningful sentences of the English language to a target subject.

Whether it can produce one word or a complete sentence, that's a very small technical detail.
If my computer can say one word, then it's obvious that it will some day also say a complete sentence.
You're nitpicking in details.

Hey Eleanor & Cliff,

Cliff Huylebroeck wrote:Whether it can produce one word or a complete sentence, that's a very small technical detail.
If my computer can say one word, then it's obvious that it will some day also say a complete sentence.
You're nitpicking in details.

Cliff I'm not nitpicking. Your claiming that a technology can cause people to hear voices and I'm pointing out that electromagnetic energy cannot. The Frey effect which is produced by electromagnetic energy causes people to hear buzzes, clicks and humms which aren't similar in any way to voices. Using the development of computers as an analogy for how voice to skull technology has been developed doesn't explain anything. It just muddies the water and distracts everyone from the fact that no technology exists that can change or manipulate the Frey effect into meaningful sentences of the English language. Furthermore, no one from the voice to skull community is complaining about hearing buzzes, clicks or humms so we have to accept that it's not a Frey effect they are being targeted with.

Cliff Huylebroeck wrote:If we compare today's computers with the computers from 39 years ago: they are indeed improved. If voice to skull has been improved at the same rate, then we may expect that science fiction has become reality.

No Cliff. Electromagnetic energy is still electromagnetic energy 39 years later. It still produces the same clicks, buzzes and humms to targets which isn't similar at all to hearing voices.

Computer have improved though. They're pretty swell.

Squirrel1 wrote:
OK, have you ever heard of a prototype that works being improved later?

Sharp's experiment was 39 years ago.

Apparently the technology HAS been improved even by the unclassified standard - see the Navy SBIR project notes in the article:

http://www.randomcollection.info/ampsychv2s.pdf, near the bottom.

Although some patented technologies improve over time like the airplane, not all technologies. Improve in ways that are not possible. The Frey effect is something that has never been improved. It seems that the Navy (see article linked) has a technology which utilized the Frey effect to disrupt crowds but that just been shooting buzzing, clicking and humming noises at them. There are no transmitted voices.


I'm glad we've finally reached the point where everyone can agree there is no voice to skull technology. Just stuff that can Frey effect you.

Please talk to someone if you are hearing voices or you believe someone is out to get you. Take care.

Infinite_Jester wrote:Hey Eleanor & Cliff,

Cliff I'm not nitpicking. Your claiming that a technology can cause people to hear voices and I'm pointing out that electromagnetic energy cannot. The Frey effect which is produced by electromagnetic energy causes people to hear buzzes, clicks and humms which aren't similar in any way to voices.

AGAIN (you are ignoring my posts) Frey WAS NOT TRANSMITTING VOICE, so naturally, the sounds his subjects heard were NOT VOICE.

Got it?

One short, sharp, radar-like pulse produces one CLICK.

A train of such pulses, naturally, produces a BUZZ.

If you control when pulses (clicks) are emitted with a voice wave form, you get VOICE.

Got it?

Look at the NAVY SBIR CONTRACT description and results at the bottom of this document:

http://www.randomcollection.info/ampsychv2s.pdf

** I would advise Cliff that there are people who will cling to the fact that Frey didn't attempt to transmit voice to "prove" that voice can't be transmitted to disparage anyone who says voices are being transmitted. They do this because they are comfortable within the psychiatric forced-poisoning and denial system. They want everyone to "benefit" from this form of discreditation and assault on their health.

DO NOT WASTE YOUR TIME on such people. They will never play any role in exposing and stopping this crime. Educate, instead, people who are open minded, and there are plenty of them.

Squirrel1 wrote:
AGAIN (you are ignoring my posts) Frey WAS NOT TRANSMITTING VOICE, so naturally, the sounds his subjects heard were NOT VOICE.

Got it?

Okay.

Squirrel1 wrote:One short, sharp, radar-like pulse produces one CLICK.

A train of such pulses, naturally, produces a BUZZ.

If you control when pulses (clicks) are emitted with a voice wave form, you get VOICE.

Got it?

Yeah I got it. Okay.

Squirrel1 wrote:Look at the NAVY SBIR CONTRACT description and results at the bottom of this document:

http://www.randomcollection.info/ampsychv2s.pdf

Okay Eleanor. Let me look at it and see what it says. *reads article* Okay so the military was developing a technology which uses electromagnetic energy to activate the auditory system to a level of discomfort level.

All the Navy contract shows is that a group of people were interested in using electromagnetic energy, which can only make people hear "clicks, buzzes, knocks", really loud so that it would make them feel really uncomfortable.

I don't understand how that supports any of the following:

(1) There exists a technology which uses electromagnetic energy to transmit whole meaningful sentences of the English language to target individual far distances away.
(2) An organization exists which uses the aforementioned technology on target individuals
(3) You are being targeted by the aforementioned organization with the aforementioned technology

You seem to believe that electormagnetic energy has been improved over time to communicate voices to people when all that has ever been demonstrated is that it can cause you to hear "clicks, buzzes, knocks".

And don't reference the Sharp and Groove study again. All they did was train themselves to tell the difference between "clicks, buzzes, knocks".

Squirrel1 wrote:** I would advise Cliff that there are people who will cling to the fact that Frey didn't attempt to transmit voice to "prove" that voice can't be transmitted to disparage anyone who says voices are being transmitted. They do this because they are comfortable within the psychiatric forced-poisoning and denial system. They want everyone to "benefit" from this form of discreditation and assault on their health.

DO NOT WASTE YOUR TIME on such people. They will never play any role in exposing and stopping this crime. Educate, instead, people who are open minded, and there are plenty of them.

Are you talking about me Eleanor? I read all the articles and looked at all the evidence. That's as open minded as someone can be. There isn't any evidence that such a technology exists. You can read all my posts where I looked at the evidence. The fact is electromagnetic energy like the ototoxic effect of Tylenol can cause certain auditory sensations but these sensations are not the same as voices nor can they be transformed or improved to communicate voices.

I post in this thread because I know your scared and you don't know who to talk to or what to do. I imagine it must be torturous. If there's something I can do to help let me know. I really do care. You can look at my other posts in the Bipolar Disorder thread.

I thought by going over the evidence with you and Cliff I could show that it could not be the case that such a technology exist and by doing this you would feel better knowing no one is attacking you with electromagnetic energy.

Please take care Eleanor and Cliff. Feel free to PM if you need anything or want advice. Best wishes.