Therapists are the ones I dislike

I have seen a psychiatrist ever since I was 14. I had some pretty bad and dark experiences gowing up as a kid and they have affected me quite a bit , even to this day.

I managed to finish college and hold a decent job but it is a struggle.

I have a dual diagnoses -- Avoidant Personality Disorder, OCD, and Bipolar. I therefore have extensive experience with the MH system associated with HMO plans. I could probably write a manual.

The truth is, most Psychiatrists are really just pill dispensers. I know that is a generalization but the reality is, in today's market, only a small percentage actually handle therapy wth patients.

The good Doctors are the ones who will listen to your complaints about side-effects and adjust or change the meds. The bad ones are those who think you should 'rough it out.' They don't listen but talk. How would you like throwing up, excrutiating headaches or alternating between consitpaion so bad you bleed or diarhea so bad you come close to soiling your pants?

Medicaion has always been a neccesary evil. They really don't cure anything but mask emotions to the point that you just don't care -- about anything. Chemical lobotomy.

I loathe them but realize there is no way to survive without them. I have learned through experience that if I don't take the anxiety meds and antidepressants I will eventually end up in the hospital or, at worse, slashing my wrists and ending up in the ER.

It's the therapists I can't stand. The ones I have seen are mostly unrealistic fools who think solutions to lifes problems comes directly from the pages of a therapy textbook. The worse ones are the therapists right out of school.

Most of the ones I have come accross are judgemental idiots without an original thought in their head. Also, I cannot believe they get paid the money they do for sitting and talking with people. They are grossly overpaid and grossly under-prepared to handle anything complex.

THeyhave this condescending attitude when you come in that, "You are screwed up and I need to fix you and make you like us normal people. : They never ask you what YOU want, as opposed to trying to fix you to conform to some ideal of normalcy.

With me, I have always feared relationships, intimacy, and sex. Emotions are always difficult to deal with. I have never been married, never had a relationship that lasted more than a month and cannot keep friends for long. The therapists say, "Here's how I can fix you to make you a normal person in a relationship".

First of all, NOBODY is going to accept the crap they would have to deal with regarding my emotional prloblems. Thats just the way it is.

They REALLY don't like it when I say, " I DONT WANT a realtionship Period, end of story!. I have tried ebfore and it just wont work and is too difficult to deal with. I would rather deal with lonlieness than deal with people. I just want people to stay the hell away from me and I will stay away from them.

THey then always say that's not a healthy attitude. Oh? According to whom? Well, don't you want a family, someone to spend Christmas with? NO ! I want to be left allone.

What gives you the ight to pass judgment on me, or anyone else? What the hell is normal? They will then say I have choices to deal with. Really? Well, I did not choose to be an oprhan when I was a kid and I did not choose to be molested by a priest again and again while in a Catholic boarding school.

They they say, thats in the past? Really? How do you forget about it? If it was only only so simple. Therapists should be forced to undergo the same experiences before they start throwing out simple-minded suggestions they steal from a simpleton textbook. We will see how easily they deal with the situation.

This is the real world and this aint no friggin textbook. I guess I need to be fixed and made like everyone else. Nobody ever once asked me what I wanted or what I would hope for. It's always, "We need to rebuild you to make you like us normal folk."

Sorry for the rant and I realize not all therapists are cold and self-righteous snobs. Part of the prlblem is I always had an HMO health policy and these are cheap and the therapists are arrogant dorks.

hi thisisme,

i am sorry for your bad experiences with your doctors. But i think you think with wrong attitude, so you have to suffer from pain. You know in every one's life, there are good and dark moments to face it. It is all about living with life with art. You must know this. You have to apply all your positive thinking on those bad moments. You are feeling sadness because you had kept it in your memories. Nothing. Don't look others what they are doing and how they are treating with you, just look at yourselves and try to change your inner self. This way you will live your life peacefully. You can control your life and can get whatever you wanted or dreams.

All the best!

Well, I dissagree with a lot of what you are saying.

I am realistic as well. I have been through enough of it to know fully well that therapy is not going to change you unless are 1) willing to change 2) work on changing. JUst showing up at a therapist's office is not going to do anything if you dont put in the effort.

What I am saying is I have put in the effort and have just been unable to change enough to make the issues not dominate my whole life. I just can't get rid of a lot of the bad stuff, no matter what approach I used. Period.

Therapy does not make issues go away, they make issues manageable. I could never make it manageable. I just couldnt. The anxiety and emotions are always there, no matter what approach I use.

I am now 43 and have seen a psychriatrist since I was 14. I have also seen therapists off and on. I have been to CBT,DBT,Groups,ELectro Convulsive therapy, Hospitilazation. Inpatient programs, utpatient progrrams. You name it, I have tried it. I have also worked hard at times on some of the programs.

Therapists don't like to fail and will degrade you if they dont get results. They will get frustrated and accuse you of being lazy or not trying. THIS IS NOT TRUE ! I have really tried on many programs and still I cannot deal with the anxiety and struggles that often overcomes me.

They will then use the covert implication that 'you are weak'. This is absurd. If I was weak I would not have tried and would have simply ended it all decades ago.

The bottom line is this: I just can't deal with many things. The emotions and anxiety are too overhwleming and the only thing that I have found that controls it is medication. I have tried alll kinds oif approaches and methos but cannot get over an often delibitating anxiety around people when it comes to interpersonal interaction.

Example: If someone bumpbs into me or touches me while I am in the line at McDonalds or somehing, I will freeze up and tremble. I have always been this way and have tried various therapaies to deal with it but it never gets rid ot this reaction.

I used to be so lonely and afraid. I wanted to have someone I could be close to but was too afraid. I have no family so I never could 'practice' in this regards -- how do you learn to have someone hug you without pulling back and start shaking?

I have tried various approaches and methods but it never worked and I DID TRY--HARD.

It really is more comfortable just avoiding it than dealing with it. I am just too anxious in social and interpersonal situations. Subconscious emotions that come up are so overpowerig that its better to stay away from it than to deal with the anxiety and stuff that comes up for the next week.

I choose now to simply live the way I am. I avoid being around people when I can because thats what makes me the most comfortable and gives me the most peace. I choose to be allone. Therapists say this is not healthy. I say, to whom? I deal with things the best I can and this is it.

I dont want a girlfriend anymore. They will just make fun of me anyways and would be embarassed of me. Who wants someone that cant even be intimate with someone without having all kinds of problems come up? Just holding someone's hand would be something so alien to me that I wouldnt know what to do or even how to do it.

Also, they always act surprised that I would not be more lonely around the holidays. Why? I don't want a birthday gift from anyone or someone to say happy birthday to me. Just leave me allone please and dont come near me. Its not that I dont like you, it just that it is what makes me the most comfortable. Likewise, I don't want someone to give me a christmas gift. Why would they want to give me a gift to begin with? What do they want from me? What are they trying to get? Again, just stay away from me and not make me anxious.

Now, I admit this is not the best approach for all peoploe and I would say people shoudl try hard and not take this approach. WHat I am saying is its the ONLY approach that has worked for me.
In fact, please DON'T be like me if you can help it.

People think I am cold and aloof at work. THey make fun of me behindmy back and I hear it. But I don't care. I dont talk to many people accept for business related issues. I do a good job and then go home. I work allone so this is good. Again, I DON'T want to go out to lunch with anyone. It makes me too anxious and nervous.

I choose to be allone, of my own free will. Call me a coward, a loser, a loner, a quitter, People can call me whatever they like to disparage me or make themselves feel good and superior. After many many years of dealing wih doctors and thrapists, I have found the only way I can to deal with it and make the issues manageable. Thats what matters to me and I dont care what arrogant therapists think about me anymore.

hello again thisisme,

Well i am not forcing you to do that things which i described in my post. You are free to do anything, after all it is your personal choice. We are just supporting you for what is right or what may be wrong for you in our opinions. Feel Free.

That was my whole point though in my statement about therapists.

They all seem to hold the view that there always is a right way and a wrong way. People are so different from one another that you cannot say, "This will work for this person and that person as well." Implicit in therapy is the condescending notion that the patient is some kind of mutant defect that needs to be repaired to conform to an idea of normalcy. Therapists are uncofmortable with people being different and are compuslively neurotic in their attempt to try to fix people to make the conform to their own standards. They never ask what you want and will degrade and try to humiliate you if they fail.

Consider this:

Most therapists are allied with one particular method: CBT,DBT etc. Now, if you try their program and it doesn't work, the therapist will blame it all on you. You didn't try hard enough or you don't understand it. God forbid they had anything to do with the lack of progres or the program just wasn't what the patient needed. Of course, the patient has a lot to do with success, but sometimes the program just sint right for that patient. Instead of recognizig this, the therapist, not willing to admit this fact, will degrade you and blame it all on you so as to not to damage their egos.

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Rules for therapists:

Rule #1: The therapist is always right.

Rule #2: The patient is only right when they say things you like to hear.

Rule #3: When things go wrong or don't go according to the goals of the therapy, just blame it entirely on the patient. Degrade or humilate them instead of accepting failure. Don't let them leave the program feeling good about themselves. Make sure they feel like a failure for leaving.

Rule #4: Never admit that the therapy program from which you gain your salary is not perfect and will not work for eevryone.

Rule #5: Try to get patients to pay for a set number of strucrured program visits up-front. That way, they will be locked into making payments even if the progrm doesnt work out for them. This way, you can still make payments on your BMW and 50,000 square foot home if patients bail because you suck at wat you do.

Rule #6: If the program helps the patient, pat yourself on the back and say, surely this program is the best thing there is. If it doesn't work, simply accuse the patient of any possible transgression as the cause of the lack of progress. In short, you the therapist can never admit fault. You can never be wrong, nor can you ever admit to being wrong in word, action, or approach. Failure is always to be blamed exclusively and entirely on the patient.

Rule #7. If you can't think of anything creative to help a difficult patient, simply resort to the usual one-liners and cliches, such as, "Just get over it and move on". Warning: Before throwing out these one-liners, make sure you have received payment and the patient account is paid in full, as this is the point they are likely to realize you don't know how to handle anything complex outside of simple textbook examples.

Rule #8: Patients are your bead and butter. Never forget this. In this regards, it is best to not deal with the difficult cases at all, as this can hurt your success rate and public perception. It is best to play musical chairs with these one's and pass them back and forth in the system.

RUle #9: You want a good salary, right? If so, you need to get people to perform therapy, even if it doesnt help them in the least. If all else fails, simply lie to them to get them to pony up the money.

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Therapists say often that, "I am here to help." That's right ! You are here to help remove as much money as possible from my wallet without delivering anything in return but simpleton solutions to complex problems: think positive, the early bird gets the worm, [insert childish cliche here]

Therapists I have dealt with also are also mostly women who hold deep rooted anti-male sentiments against men.

If you do not conform to the view of what society thinks is right, you are looked on as a loser, an outcast to be shunned, even by therapists. The people who found a method that works for themselves will pat themselves on the back for being the winners and 'normal' people. People like me are laughed at and shunned and looked on as loners, outcasts, and losers.

Everyone in life deals with issues the best way they can. For excmple, you approach does not make you any better than me. We all find ways to cope. It is my opinion that there is no right way and no wrong way. You are no better than me because you choose a different approach. You may think you are, but you are not.

Now, I am not arguing with you. You have your stance and I have mine. To each his own. Just dont pass judgement on me.

We are all going to die some day anyways and it won't matter what we thought. One hundred years from now, nobody is going to remember who I was, or anyone else on this forum. LIke I am now, you will all be irrelevant outcasts from a bygone era. So, make fun of me all you want. Think of me as a loser, a freak. Laugh at me in scorn. I laugh back. Everyone else is just, in essence, just as irrelevant to society as I am, in the end. We are just food for worms in the end. We are all worthless in the end. We are all here for a brief period of time, then cease to exist, no more valuable than the dust into which we will dissolve. The goal in life is to make the most of the situation now the best way we can -- to do things that minimize discomfort and cope the best way possible. Thats the way our brains have programmed us. Thats all we can do really. Eveyhting else is completely meaningless and trivial. Christmas, birthdays, realtioships, this absurd thing called "Love", all those things people get so worked up about -- I just laugh. None of that silly and worthless claptrap will mean a thing when you cease to exist.

Therapists believe they have some magic potition that will work on everyone. Most are arrogant and think they are better than their patients. I also suspect most go into therapy because they enjoy the ego boost they get from feeling superior to their patients. I think many of them have issues themselves and they transfer these onto their patients. Thats just my opinion, though.

Most therapists wouldn't give a aptient the time of day on the street and would charge money for you to use the restroom in their office if they could.

In short, my experiences with therapists have shown me that many, not alll, are mostly manipulative blood suckers who milk you of every penny you have. I understand these are harsh words and some people benefit greatly from their services. For people like me who are the difficult cases, we are simply a cash machine to be used. They know a good meal ticket when they see it !

Also, I wanted to say this to people who would possibly read my posts and were concerned:

Just because I despise therapists does not mean therapy will not work for you. Some people I know online have said they have got help from seing a therapist and I see no reason for them to lie about it.

My opinion is just that therapists are totally inept when dealing with anything complex and there number one interest is not assisting people, but obtaining your money, at any cost. In that regards, I would rank therapists below ambulence-chasing attorneys in terms of ethics and integrity. Most of the ones I personally have experience with have neither of these traits and are simply blood sucking money grubbing scum.

Sorry, you've had as bad of experiences with psychological medicine providers as I have. (well, I've avoided ECT, thankfully.)

There isn't anything wrong with being aloner. Check out a book titled "Party of One: A Loner's Manifesto." More people should read it, then they wouldn't think being a loner equals being ill.

On a side note, freezing in responce to touch is a natural biological startle response. In some animals and people it is greater than others. I don't recall the chemical, but a study showed an over or underproduction of it greatly changes the freezing responce.

If we would all accept that everyone is different, we'd be less apt to label those differences as illnesses.

Unless you are bothered by your "symptoms" or are a threat to others, why continue treatment for so long with no response? Why don't you stop going? If you have been under so many differeng therapeis for so long, how can you know they aren't the cause of your anxiety and withdraw from others? If people treated me like a guinea pig, I'd fear and avoid people. Seems like a normal response.

Of course a psychiartist is going to say your anxiety and withdraw are mental health problems. A chinese herbalist might say you need to take dandelion tea for a month to balance your adrenal glands. Your social avoidance could be caused by who-only-know what. If you want to avoid people go ahead. There's no need to be so defensive about it.

You say nothing helps, but you also say only meds help.

Don't believe the hype. Perhaps you couldn't "manage" without medication. Some people don't. Perhaps you could. Some people do, you know.

And please don't get upset at others for demonizing your choices if you are going to be so harsh with them. For many people relationships and the "absurd thing called love" are valuable. Many of those people understand that such things are transient, and they value them all the more.

Moss

Whenver I get hospitalized, I always am 'forced' into therapy of one type or another. The last time was about 4 years ago. They don't let you out until you play the game they have set up. That usually means attending group therapy, one-on-one therapy etc. If you are in the hospital for a suicide attempt, they then usually make it mandatory that you attend therapy as part of getting out. I know the how the worthless therapists operate and know the right things to say to them to get the hell out. They are the prison wardens and you have to kiss their rears before they let you go.

You can play games back at them, though. One time, they made me go to an art sessions and I said I didnt want to go and it was childish. They said I had to go. They were going to restrict my privleages if I didnt go so I went and had to do these finger paintings. I was laughing. I finger painted the words 'My therapist is a smelly, fat b&#ch " and they got pissed off and gave me a special 'counseling' session. They said they were going to reccomend my stay be lenghetned if I didnt shape up. I told them I would like a telephone. They asked why? I said I wanted to call an attorney. Nothing came of it and they didnt keep me around longer.

On medication issues: If I don't take medication, I will get depressed or manic in about 2 weeks. I will then start getting anxiety and panic attacks and end up in the hopsital. It is not fun being in the hospital where you are around people and they tell you when you can eat, shower, poop, pee, and watch TV. Its a prison and totally degrading

You are right that I shouldnt demonize other peoples choices either. I am just trying to show its all relative. To someone like me, 'normal' people are the ones who are different -- if that makes any sense. Unfortunately I am the minority so I have to be defensive or get stepped on.

I am defensive because obviously I have been exposed to the majroity for long enough to know they treat me as a parhiah and won;t accept me for who and what I am. Yes, I should listen more and not be so reactive, but it just is natural and a defense mechanism I guess.

I have never harmed anyone, nor do I wish to, nor have I ever thought of doing as such. Yet the stigma today of mental illness is what people read in the papers or in the movies. They think mental illness equates to someone who will harm them or do somehting anti social. I have never done anything like this yet people dont understand nor do they take the time to.

Regarding love and all those issues, you are correct. I apologize for offeding anyone. I felt like I was being attacked and those were words that were not kind like I would want to be treated. If thats what people enjoy in life, then do as you please if you arent hurting anyone. I havent the slightest idea how people go about these things or why they enjoy them but they think the same of me so we are even. I am just so used to be being vilified by the majority because I dont choose these things they do that it helps me get it out by lashing out like that I guess.

Regarding this obsession with 'love' that most people have, Scientists know that is is simply nothing but anxiety and emotions trigerred in certain areas of the brain. It is nothing but neurons firing in a certain pattern. I know these brain patterns give some people enjoyment and that is good for them, but what I was saying is it is ultimately trivial and meanginless and when you die and your brain shuts off you are simply going to be non existent and wont have any feeligns at all. I dont kow why people get into it or even care about these types of brain patterns, but again they think the same about me. so I cannot judge what I see to be something very odd.

If you are not married and don't like these things people call love, don't want to be around people, you will not fit in very well in society.

I never really fit in anywhere -- even among those with problems similar to me. In short, I don't like being around people most of the time. I can talk to people at work, but only for work related issues. There was a time long ago I used to want these things but now I don't want a family, I dont want to be part of one, nor do I want anyone to even touch me.

To me, people are gross creatures--they act in strange ways I dont understand and the thought of contact with them, is at times, disgusting. Sometimes, I won't even get on a public bus because the thought of having to sit next to someone makes me want to vomit.

I have made this bed. It is the most comfortable bed for me. I am responsibile for all my decisions. I can;t function around people interpersonally and never have been able to. I have realized through trial and error that what normal people term loneliness is quite liberating for me when you think about it in this regards. I embrace it and it gives me comfort I never get anywhere else. You are totally freed from having to deal with these issues that you cannot resolve.

If I could be anything I wanted, I would be an old time mountain man out in the wilderness, totally removed from contact with any human being. The idea even of an afterlife freaks me out. I don't want to go there if there are people there ! If there is a God and an afterlife(which I think is just a fantasy) I would beg him to please let me be and just sink into oblivion. I could not stand that for eternity. In fact, I think death will be my final liberation and sometimes when I am so distraught, I look forward to the moment of my death like someone would a marriage or family etc. It is the point at which I will be totally freed and my wish granted. It gives me the comfort to know that one day, at one time, it will not always be this bad.

The things that keep me going are 1)my natural animal instinct for survivial and 2) the pleasures I can find in being a sentient being. I like photography and mathematics and these keep me going. They are my source of inspiration and give me my feeling of worth. To me, obvliion=paradise. No more worrying about having to deal with people, someomen tying to hurt you, steal from you, or use you.

Now, naturally people will read this and shudder. BUt think of it this way: This is what I WANT. I CHOOSE THIS. Please try to understand that I do not want to harm anyone. I am not going to hurt anyone. I just don't like people. I don't like cats, but I don;t want to hurt one. Not liking something doesnt mean you want to harm it. I think people equate the two and think you are violent or something. I am not. To me, people are manipulative, dirty creatures to be avoided--both men and women. I do understand though that they feel things and I do have empathy for people just like I do animals.

The women I have been around think too much of themselves and seem stuck up like they are the best thing that happened to the world since sliced pizza. They think men just want them for sex. I think, I dont want to touch you. The though of coming close to your body is absolutely disgusting and repuslive. Men I dont trust at all as I think most will try to molest you if given the chance. The only time I had sex was with myself and I did not like that. It is a disgusting thought to me, although I know many people seem to enjoy this as the best things in their life. I have no idea how someone could be attracted to the human body, whether man or woman. but again I have no right to judge this. To me, the human body is absolutely despicably gross. So, in this regards, I am just as strange to others as they are to me. What I am saying here is this -- 'normal' people are as foreign and strange to me as I am to them.

This is who I am and you dont have to like me or accept me, but please give me the respect of not making fun of me. If I could say anything to people, this would be it. You dont have to run from me. I am just doing what I can to surivve. Even if I were violent, I would be so repusled by the thought of contacting someone else that I couldn't punch them even.

I can say these things online because nobody knows me. In person, though I would never tell these things to anyone as they would make fun of me as they see me as something to be shunned and vilified.

Regarding my philosophy of life: I am an existentialist. I believe mankind lives in angst and all of his actions are simply reflections of this. People invent the idea of god, relationships, and love simply because that is what they have found to cope with the angst. It is survival of the fittest. Those with the best traits to deal with the angst have their genes prosper in the pool. Those like me who aree outcasts have their genes removed from the potential pool. This is the way it should be. I admit I would not want someone like me particiapting in the gene pool. It is good for the survivial of humanity that people like me are not part of it. In a way this brings me a great sense of pride as I know I am not contributing the the further degredation of the human race--which would occur if I were in fact interested in these things I see people involve themselves with.

So, those that vilify my decisions should instead applaud them. If I were to choose to be a part of the pool, I would taint it. My defective genes do not in any way belong in the pool. I am not ashamed to say this. It is simply fact. Those best to cope survive, those that don't belong nowehre near the pool. In fact, if there was a govenrment eugenics program for euthanization, I would readily volunteer. I am not currenly suicidial but certainly would give serious consideration to this program, if it did exist. I firmly believe only the fittest should survive and some people should not have their genes propogated. I am one of those. Poeple should be applauding my deicsions and, like me, looking forward to the day when nature takes its course and I simply cease to exist.

"That which does not destroy me makes me stronger"..

Frederick Neitzche.

Funny, you say you dislike all people, yet here you are. And where would your like for photography be without the trials and accomplishments of other people who developed such technology?

Please hear me out.

I'm not trying to reform you. I'm not saying, "Hey look, you love people!". No. I believe you really have no strong affection for the comanionship of other people. It's all a matter of degrees. Many people hate riding the bus and touching the bodies of strangers. Other people hug and kiss strangers. Degrees.

I fully understand the theater of forced hospitalization. I have been in in just such a situation. And only once. I've learned to avoid it. I would hope that all others could. Treatment? Fine. Forced treatment? Pretty useless. In my opinion. There are always exceptions.

I am not a proponent of long-term medication. (For everyone who is excepting to this, I respect your view.) If a person has been under many and varying psychoactive medications, especially for a long duration, then the cessation of those medication will very often lead to an emergence of undesirable emotional and cognitive symptoms.

In laymens turn: if someone takes psych meds for years and stops, s/he will "go crazy". Sometimes, it's a recurrance of latent symptoms, but it can also be withdrawal. A person's body has to overcome the change in chemistry. If someone's brain hasn't been making it's own chems for years (because s/he has been injesting them) it can't suddenly start making them. The brain is out of shape like an atrophied muscle.

I'm not saying such individuals are to blame, nor are they lazy. Just as someone with a spinal cord injury may need to undergo rehabilitation, so too is the recovery from mental illness. Did you know there are people who were wheelchair bound for years and regained muscle control through rigorous exercise?

People can and do recover from mental illness. It doesn't mean you might never get sick, but it can mean you will sometimes be well.

It's hard not to be offensive (preventative defence) when one has grown accustomed to stigmatization. It's like learned helplessness, but it's learned defensiveness.

I would urge you to try and retain defence for actual attacks. This is an area of my own life I still struggle with. If I am offensive before an attack has begun, then an attack will surely arrise. But if I exercise patience, keeping defense in reserve, I find greater opportunity to understand others and have them understand me. Doesn't always work, but I try. And if I need to be defensive then I can be so. I just prefer to avoid the fight altogether.

It is a misconception that mental illness equates to violence. Therefore we have an additional struggle to overcome that stereotype and not use violent words except when necessary.

There's more than one way to introduce someone to thier character flaws. As, you discovered, calling for a lawyer can be more effective than calling out "b!tch". Either way you're calling the person a liar and a criminal.

As for degrees of affection. Yes, love can be attributed to firing of electrical impulses and to chemical reactions. So can depression and anxiety. We have injestible forms (foods and meds) of those chemicals. We can synthetically induce anxiety, love, anger, compassion. And we can tell the difference between the synthetic emotion and the real one. When we cannot, we have lost control over these responces.

Science is so infantile regarding the study of emotions and behavioral responces. "Scientific" evidence is used to argue the chemical basis for forced medications, but not for forced obesity treatment-not for forced marital counseling. What if spouses could force their partners to take exctasy? Further, "scientific" evidence is used on both sides of any controversial issue--abortion, homosexuality, climatic variation, whatever.

Regardless of cause, an individual's ability to feel love is as valid as one's ability to feel distain.

If you ... don't like these things people call love, don't want to be around people, you will not fit in very well in society.

Well, yes. That's the very definition of a human society--a group of people.

Many , though, are isolationist. But how would you ever know? You aren't going to find conventions of isolationists. The culture of isolation is not one to host parades, is it?

So much of cultural conflict gets labeled as mental illness, it disturbs me. Some cultures think Americans are all a bit loony because they are so personal at work. Other cultures think our chummy smiling laughing attitudes are a sign of a weak-minded culture. Some cultures have grand displays of emotion at funerals and some are somber.

When we automatically label those whose personalities that differ from us as ill, we have failed to even attempt to understand the other person. Maybe they are ill, but one still needs some basis of understanding in order to facilitate healing. And why wouldn't we want each other to be well? Why would we want others to be sick and down-trodden? Either we are systemically blind to the impact of our actions or we are deliberately benefitting from the ill-welfare of others.

When we act so poorly, we are gross creatures. But we can be cleaner. We can wash ourselves of prejudices. We can facilitate each others healing.

[qoute]I have realized through trial and error that what normal people term loneliness is quite liberating for me[/quote]

Returning to this point. Again I suggest the book "Party of One: A Loner's Manifesto." The author details the healthy benefits of isolation. She questions how psychiatry would operate if the inability to self-soothe, to self-entertain, were considered abnormal and the ability to seperate oneself from others as healthy. She also does not deamonize those who thrive in larger social groups. She is a loner with a healhty respect for non-loners.

To me, people are manipulative, dirty creatures to be avoided--both men and women. I do understand though that they feel things and I do have empathy for people just like I do animals.

That is not an empathetic statment. It is one of sympathy. Empathy means you feel just like the other does. Sympathy means you feel for the other.

If you feel like you are a dirty creature then you are empathetic only if the other person aslo feels that way. If you feel sorry for someone, but don't share their experience you are only sympathetic.

I am not making a judgment of empathy vs. sympathy. I am only noting the difference linguistically between the two words.

The difference, also, is that when we feel empathy we are more likely to act to resolve another person's suffering than if we feel only sympathy.

Psychiatrists who think themselves to have never been ill mentally do not have empathy no matter the degree of sympathy they may have. They act to allieviate suffering, but without empathy the actions are less on target.

The women ...think men just want them for sex....Men I dont trust at all as I think most will try to molest you if given the chance.

I'm sorry that your experience with people has been so negative. I assure you that such people are not totality of the species. Some people are asexual. They have no innate desire for sexual contact of any kind. Most other people have healthy boundaries regarding sexual displays and encounters. Those that don't or are deviant from the norm, just stick out. Right?

Things that are different stick out unless they are camoflauged.

If I could say anything to people, this would be it. You dont have to run from me. I am just doing what I can to surivve.

Defense and camoflauge. Everything does it to survive. If you remove yourself from dangerous situations you will find the fight for survival less threatening.

Like I said earlier. You aren't going to find conventions of isolationists. You won't find asexual people hunting bars for one-night stands. (Maybe, who knows.)

If you want to feel less alone in your choice of aloneness, you'll have to really hunt for those people. Cause just like you, they hide.

If you just want to be alone, then just be alone. You don't have to be atacked by others if you don't engage with them. Yeah, you might "have" to hold down a job or grocery shoip, whatever. Accept that co-workers might think you are cold. What do you care what they think? So what if the cashier thinks you are rude for not saying hi back?

Maybe, too, you can learn to camoflauge yourself with the trappings of your culture. Is it so painful to say "Fine, and you?"

And as for "having" to interact with others. Well, what is stopping any of us from running off and being hermits in the woods?

There are religious enclaves open to hermetic lifestyles. There is still wilderness one can purchase and homestead on. One could caravan/RV the landscape. Whatever.

As for philosophy and the"after-life." You are more than free to your own opinions on the matter. We all are. Do not let the beliefs of others make you defensive of yours. Whether people look forward to heaven, nirvana, or oblivion, they all look forward to a cessation of suffering.

I believe mankind lives in angst and all of his actions are simply reflections of this. People invent the idea of god, relationships, and love simply because that is what they have found to cope with the angst.

Your beliefs are little different from the fundamentals of many philosophies and religions. That is that we are all suffering and are bound to the things we create to allieviate our suffering.

It is good for the survivial of humanity that people like me are not part of it. ... If I were to choose to be a part of the pool, I would taint it. My defective genes do not in any way belong in the pool.

I reserve the right to a differing opinion. Altruism and selfishness are equally essential to the survival of a species. Community and isolation are also equally important. If hiding is the necessary skill ofr surviving some calamity, then social butterflies would be hard presessed to survive.

In fact, if there was a govenrment eugenics program for euthanization, I would readily volunteer. I am not currenly suicidial but certainly would give serious consideration to this program, if it did exist.

Those words do not reinforce your previous that your tempermant should be accepted by others. You ask for others not to call you names, yet you claim yourself as useful only in death? Well, how does that engender respect from others?

Moss

"If you're here, it's difficult. That is the first nobel truth."
"Be the change you want to see in the world."

[/i][/quote]

ThisIsMe wrote:
Consider this:

Most therapists are allied with one particular method: CBT,DBT etc. Now, if you try their program and it doesn't work, the therapist will blame it all on you. You didn't try hard enough or you don't understand it. God forbid they had anything to do with the lack of progres or the program just wasn't what the patient needed. Of course, the patient has a lot to do with success, but sometimes the program just sint right for that patient. Instead of recognizig this, the therapist, not willing to admit this fact, will degrade you and blame it all on you so as to not to damage their egos.

................................
Rules for therapists:

Rule #1: The therapist is always right.

Rule #2: The patient is only right when they say things you like to hear.

Rule #3: When things go wrong or don't go according to the goals of the therapy, just blame it entirely on the patient. Degrade or humilate them instead of accepting failure. Don't let them leave the program feeling good about themselves. Make sure they feel like a failure for leaving.

Rule #4: Never admit that the therapy program from which you gain your salary is not perfect and will not work for eevryone.

Rule #5: Try to get patients to pay for a set number of strucrured program visits up-front. That way, they will be locked into making payments even if the progrm doesnt work out for them. This way, you can still make payments on your BMW and 50,000 square foot home if patients bail because you suck at wat you do.

Rule #6: If the program helps the patient, pat yourself on the back and say, surely this program is the best thing there is. If it doesn't work, simply accuse the patient of any possible transgression as the cause of the lack of progress. In short, you the therapist can never admit fault. You can never be wrong, nor can you ever admit to being wrong in word, action, or approach. Failure is always to be blamed exclusively and entirely on the patient.

Rule #7. If you can't think of anything creative to help a difficult patient, simply resort to the usual one-liners and cliches, such as, "Just get over it and move on". Warning: Before throwing out these one-liners, make sure you have received payment and the patient account is paid in full, as this is the point they are likely to realize you don't know how to handle anything complex outside of simple textbook examples.

Rule #8: Patients are your bead and butter. Never forget this. In this regards, it is best to not deal with the difficult cases at all, as this can hurt your success rate and public perception. It is best to play musical chairs with these one's and pass them back and forth in the system.

RUle #9: You want a good salary, right? If so, you need to get people to perform therapy, even if it doesnt help them in the least. If all else fails, simply lie to them to get them to pony up the money.

........................................

Therapists say often that, "I am here to help." That's right ! You are here to help remove as much money as possible from my wallet without delivering anything in return but simpleton solutions to complex problems: think positive, the early bird gets the worm, [insert childish cliche here]

Therapists I have dealt with also are also mostly women who hold deep rooted anti-male sentiments against men.

If you do not conform to the view of what society thinks is right, you are looked on as a loser, an outcast to be shunned, even by therapists. The people who found a method that works for themselves will pat themselves on the back for being the winners and 'normal' people. People like me are laughed at and shunned and looked on as loners, outcasts, and losers.

Everyone in life deals with issues the best way they can. For excmple, you approach does not make you any better than me. We all find ways to cope. It is my opinion that there is no right way and no wrong way. You are no better than me because you choose a different approach. You may think you are, but you are not.

Now, I am not arguing with you. You have your stance and I have mine. To each his own. Just dont pass judgement on me.

We are all going to die some day anyways and it won't matter what we thought. One hundred years from now, nobody is going to remember who I was, or anyone else on this forum. LIke I am now, you will all be irrelevant outcasts from a bygone era. So, make fun of me all you want. Think of me as a loser, a freak. Laugh at me in scorn. I laugh back. Everyone else is just, in essence, just as irrelevant to society as I am, in the end. We are just food for worms in the end. We are all worthless in the end. We are all here for a brief period of time, then cease to exist, no more valuable than the dust into which we will dissolve. The goal in life is to make the most of the situation now the best way we can -- to do things that minimize discomfort and cope the best way possible. Thats the way our brains have programmed us. Thats all we can do really. Eveyhting else is completely meaningless and trivial. Christmas, birthdays, realtioships, this absurd thing called "Love", all those things people get so worked up about -- I just laugh. None of that silly and worthless claptrap will mean a thing when you cease to exist.

Therapists believe they have some magic potition that will work on everyone. Most are arrogant and think they are better than their patients. I also suspect most go into therapy because they enjoy the ego boost they get from feeling superior to their patients. I think many of them have issues themselves and they transfer these onto their patients. Thats just my opinion, though.

Most therapists wouldn't give a aptient the time of day on the street and would charge money for you to use the restroom in their office if they could.

In short, my experiences with therapists have shown me that many, not alll, are mostly manipulative blood suckers who milk you of every penny you have. I understand these are harsh words and some people benefit greatly from their services. For people like me who are the difficult cases, we are simply a cash machine to be used. They know a good meal ticket when they see it !

Also, I wanted to say this to people who would possibly read my posts and were concerned:

Just because I despise therapists does not mean therapy will not work for you. Some people I know online have said they have got help from seing a therapist and I see no reason for them to lie about it.

My opinion is just that therapists are totally inept when dealing with anything complex and there number one interest is not assisting people, but obtaining your money, at any cost. In that regards, I would rank therapists below ambulence-chasing attorneys in terms of ethics and integrity. Most of the ones I personally have experience with have neither of these traits and are simply blood sucking money grubbing scum.

That's actually not all true, not here anyways, our therapists are free and i've never once been blamed for something not working, treatment works differently for everyone.
CBT has done wonders for me, medication has helped with symptoms I deal with etc. For me personally I've had nothing but great experiences and it sucks to hear have horrible times.. i've never dealt with horrible mental health help, nothing but good on my end.

Moss wrote:Please hear me out.

You bring up some interesting points. I will take a look at the book recommendation.

Correct me if I am wrong, but It sounds like you might have studied a bit of Buddhism. I would like to share my thoughts on things from a rational perspective.

Part of the reason we suffer mental anguish is because we are rational beings, capable of abstract thought processes whereby we compartmentalize, compare, and analyze. We can not only compare ourselves to others, but we can also compare ourselves to some abstract standard we think is an ideal. When we do not measure up to these standards, we inevitably suffer mental anguish and self-loathing to varying degrees.

This power of our brain to perform such abstract comparisons is what gives us our self-awareness -- it is also what can contribute to out suffering. We do not observe dogs, cats, or horses worried about their appearance, how they fit in with the crowd etc because(as far as we know) they cannot reason on this level and are incapable of thinking of themselves as independent from their environment -- they cannot perform a mental comparison of themselves against something else.

Just as reason can cause us some mental anguish, we cannot use reason to undo anguish. In my opinion, we cannot reason ourselves out of emotional pain. This wont work, first and foremost, because, as the Empiricist Hume noted, "Reason has never motivated a man to do anything." Every action we perform is motivated by one principle -- to maximize benefit and minimize gain(whether these benefits are real or perceived). We are hedonists to the end, although we do not wish to think of ourselves in this regard. Reason is often employed as a means to this end, never as an end to a means.

We are creatures of instinct. Exposed to nature, life itself represents angst, pain, and suffering. We are motivated to find ways to alleviate this suffering. We hunger, so we seek food; we thirst, we find water; we become cold, we seek clothing and shelter.; we desire procreation, we seek sex(at least many people); we fear death, so we fantasize about a god-deity waiting to usher us into a paradise free of angst. As rational beings, we get bored easily, so we seek excess stimulation, both mental and physical. Many people also display an intense desire to seek the companionship of others. To not do so, causes anxiety and suffering for some.

Taken to deeper levels of human existence, things get more complex. As you alluded to, one way we find to minimize suffering(and therefore maximize reward) is to employ complex delusions and/or attach ourselves to things that, at least temporarily, provide relief. Some of these can be destructive(drugs for instance}, others relatively innocuous(superstitions or religion, for example.)

Everyone has an 'opiate' they use to control the inevitable suffering(both mental and physical) that is so integral to all of our lives. There is no other way to retain one's sanity amidst the turmoil we often find engulfs us.