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"Anti-Psych" Forum

Open discussion about the Anti-Psychiatry Movement and related topics. This includes the opposition to forced treatment and hospitalization as well as the belief that Psychiatric Medication does more harm than good. Please note that these topics are controversial and therefore this forum may offend some people. This is not the belief of Psych Forums or Get Mental Help and this forum was posted to offer a safe place to discuss these beliefs.

"Anti-Psych" Forum

Postby njw36 » Tue Mar 22, 2016 7:46 pm

I hope this doesn't come off as too critical or insensitive of your very valid complaints about the entire psychiatric health system. I just think it's important to balance the black/white, acceptance/change...

Some validation:

1. Psychiatry is probably run by sociopaths at the top of the pharmaceutical corporations.
2. Psychiatry does a very large amount of harm and has a gross lack of tending to individual needs.
3. Psychiatry needs to be reformed if we want to live in a mentally well society.
4. It seems like everything is moving towards Brave New World, putting people into pharmaceutical submission and sending them home to eat delicious rations.
5. People without a chemical imbalance are harmed when they are presented with these medications, and the reason is the financial benefit of the pharmaceutical companies.

Some facts:

1. Psychiatry is not a malevolent concept. It's the reason we can get help.
2. Psychiatry has not always been this way. Critical decisions used to be made by the doctors.
3. Medications do help people with a chemical imbalance when not much else would.
4. Psychiatric inpatient facilities used to have several-week stays with psychotherapy.
5. The system needs to be reformed, not abolished. Psychiatrists and Psy.D's are not bad people.
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Re: "Anti-Psych" Forum

Postby Copy_Cat » Thu Mar 24, 2016 11:15 pm

njw36 wrote:5. People without a chemical imbalance are harmed when they are presented with these medications, and the reason is the financial benefit of the pharmaceutical companies.



OMG you still believe in the chemical imbalance ??? !!!


This one is big.

Dr. Ronald Pies, the editor-in-chief emeritus of the Psychiatric Times, laid the theory to rest in the July 11, 2011, issue of the Times with this staggering admission:

“In truth, the ‘chemical imbalance’ notion was always a kind of urban legend — never a theory seriously propounded by well-informed psychiatrists.”


http://www.psychiatrictimes.com/blogs/psychiatry-new-brain-mind-and-legend-chemical-imbalance

How have we been fooled?

There are several reasons the idea that mental disorders are caused by a chemical imbalance has become so widespread (and none of them have anything to do with the actual scientific evidence, as we have seen).

It is known that people suffering from mental disorders and especially their families prefer a diagnosis of “physical disease” because it does not convey the stigma and blame commonly associated with “psychological problems”. A “physical disease” may suggest a more optimistic prognosis, and mental patients are often more amenable to drug treatment when they are told they have a physical disease.

“You Have a Chemical Imbalance in Your Brain” (Big Lie No. 1)

http://www.afterpsychotherapy.com/chemical-imbalance-in-your-brain/
I survived psychiatry.
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Re: "Anti-Psych" Forum

Postby Copy_Cat » Thu Mar 24, 2016 11:37 pm

njw36 wrote:3. Medications do help people with a chemical imbalance when not much else would.



I thought because of the internet that big lie was busted.

I can post links like http://www.madinamerica.com/tag/chemical-imbalance/ to dozens of articles exposing it.

Or a Google search to "Chemical Imbalance Lie" http://www.google.com/search?q=Chemical+Imbalance+Lie


Or quotes and Links

“A theory that is wrong is considered preferable to admitting our ignorance.” – Elliot Vallenstein, Ph.D.

The idea that depression and other mental health conditions are caused by an imbalance of chemicals in the brain is so deeply ingrained in our psyche that it seems almost sacrilegious to question it.

https://chriskresser.com/the-chemical-imbalance-myth/

I just feel like crap right now knowing that lie is still alive and well. I wrote a much better reply but when I pushed submit it said "connection timed out" and I lost it. I usually remember to copy it first.

Anyway saying that medication helps people because of a chemical imbalance is like saying Advil helps people with headaches because they have an "ibuprofen deficiency".

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Re: "Anti-Psych" Forum

Postby njw36 » Fri Mar 25, 2016 3:30 am

I didn't mean to say that Schizophrenia, Deperession, and Bipolar are caused by chemical imabalnces. I'm just saying that medication can help some people recover who otherwise wouldn't.
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Re: "Anti-Psych" Forum

Postby Copy_Cat » Fri Mar 25, 2016 5:05 pm

njw36 wrote: I'm just saying that medication can help some people recover who otherwise wouldn't.


That's great but the problem is its preventing a greater number of people from recovering that otherwise would have.

The Mystery
The modern era of psychiatry is usually said to have begun with the introduction of Thorazine into asylum medicine in 1955. This kicked off a “psychopharmacological revolution,” or so our society is told, with psychiatry discovering effective drugs for mental disorders of all kinds. In 1988, the first of the “second-generation” psychiatric drugs--Prozac--was introduced, and these new drugs were said to represent another therapeutic advance. Yet, even as this “psychopharmacological revolution” has unfolded over the past 50 years, the number of people disabled by mental illness has soared.

In 1955, there were 355,000 adults in state and county mental hospitals with a psychiatric diagnosis. During the next three decades (the era of the first generation psychiaric drugs), the number of disabled mentally ill rose to 1.25 million. Prozac arrived on the market in 1988, and during the next 20 years, the number of disabled mentally ill grew to more than four million adults (in 2007.) Finally, the prescribing of psychiatric medications to children and adolescents took off during this period (1987 to 2007), and as this medical practice took hold, the number of youth in America receiving a government disability check because of a mental illness leapt from 16,200 in 1987 to 561,569 in 2007 (a 35-fold increase.)

The Investigation
The astonishing increase in the disability numbers during the past fifty years raises an obvious question: Could the widespread use of psychiatric medications--for one reason or another--be fueling this epidemic? Anatomy of an Epidemic investigates that question, and it does so by focusing on the long-term outcome studies in the research literature. Do the studies tell of a paradigm of care that helps people get well and stay well over the long term? Or do they tell of a paradigm of care that increases the likelihood that people diagnosed with mental disorders will become chronically ill?

The Documents
This website is designed to provide readers of Anatomy of an Epidemic with access to the key studies reviewed in the book. http://robertwhitaker.org/robertwhitake ... demic.html



Mentally ill do better in Third World than in West... People who suffer from schizophrenia in the Third World are twice as likely to recover as sufferers in the West, according to a report by the World Health Organization...

Psychiatry's “treatments”often don't work. Even the industry shills will admit to that; however, all logic stops there. They will then continue to preach compliance with the same ineffective course of action despite the fact that, the evidence from the past 50 years has shown that the treatments have actually worsened long-term outcomes. There is an epidemic of psychiatric disability. How can this be, if the treatments are so much better that they were in the past? You are better off having a “psychotic” episode in Nigeria than in the U.S. Why? Because third-world countries have better recovery rates for so-called “schizophrenia” than the United States and other industrialized nations that keep their psychiatric patients “maintained” on the drugs. In the United States, one “psychotic” episode will almost always land you in psychiatric wasteland for the rest of your life. It is psychiatry itself that created the “chronicity” in so-called “mental illness” http://web.archive.org/web/201206070109 ... press.com/



The trolley problem is a thought experiment in ethics. The general form of the problem is this: There is a runaway trolley barreling down the railway tracks. Ahead, on the tracks, there are five people tied up and unable to move. The trolley is headed straight for them. You are standing some distance off in the train yard, next to a lever. If you pull this lever, the trolley will switch to a different set of tracks. However, you notice that there is one person on the side track. You have two options: (1) Do nothing, and the trolley kills the five people on the main track. (2) Pull the lever, diverting the trolley onto the side track where it will kill one person. Which is the correct choice?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trolley_problem

What if you have six people showing symptoms of mental illness and you know statistically that psychiatric drugging is going to help two of them and harm 4 of them, what do you do ?
I survived psychiatry.
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Re: "Anti-Psych" Forum

Postby mostlyghostly » Sat Mar 26, 2016 11:12 am

Copy_Cat wrote:What if you have six people showing symptoms of mental illness and you know statistically that psychiatric drugging is going to help two of them and harm 4 of them, what do you do ?


I let each of them make the decision, after providing them with all relevant information. If they are in a mental state where they can't understand most of the info, I still let them make the decision, but still also try to communicate as much as I can to them, and still keep them confined if they are violent (for their own sake and others').

My only huge gripe with psychiatry is when anyone believes they have the right to forcibly inject a substance - one that is still not fully understood no less - into someone else's body against that person's will. That is flat out wrong, no other way about it.

I like that the meds are available, and I like that people can have the options, and I like that pharma companies are still trying to make improved meds with better results and less side effects. All very good.

But don't force it onto anyone.
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Re: "Anti-Psych" Forum

Postby njw36 » Sat Mar 26, 2016 9:41 pm

Copy_Cat wrote:[

That's great but the problem is its preventing a greater number of people from recovering that otherwise would have.

Mentally ill do better in Third World than in West... People who suffer from schizophrenia in the Third World are twice as likely to recover as sufferers in the West, according to a report by the World Health Organization...

The trolley problem is a thought experiment in ethics. The general form of the problem is this: There is a runaway trolley barreling down the railway tracks. Ahead, on the tracks, there are five people tied up and unable to move. The trolley is headed straight for them. You are standing some distance off in the train yard, next to a lever. If you pull this lever, the trolley will switch to a different set of tracks. However, you notice that there is one person on the side track. You have two options: (1) Do nothing, and the trolley kills the five people on the main track. (2) Pull the lever, diverting the trolley onto the side track where it will kill one person. Which is the correct choice?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trolley_problem

What if you have six people showing symptoms of mental illness and you know statistically that psychiatric drugging is going to help two of them and harm 4 of them, what do you do ?


I'll say it again that psychiatry is poorly regulated and not executed well enough, but that doesn't change the fact that psychiatry can make many people functioning and well again.

To you saying, "What about those people in front of the trolley?" there must be some way to differentiate between people who benefit from taking the drugs and those who do not. I, myself, am capable of saying which drugs help me function and which make me worse.

When someone is having paranoid psychosis all the time in modern society, not getting enough sleep in modern society, losing their ability to navigate in complicated situations/environments (read: modern society) then any medication to prevent their positive psychosis would be helpful. This isn't about a third-world country.

I personally look on the majority of cops and their attitude with great disgust, but I recognize that it is a necessary part of controlling the population. What do you think would be better in say, a really violent urban neighborhood, to a.) completely remove of the police, or b.) reform the police force so that it does less herm and is more effective?
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Re: "Anti-Psych" Forum

Postby Copy_Cat » Tue Apr 05, 2016 6:03 pm

njw36 wrote:then any medication to prevent their positive psychosis would be helpful. This isn't about a third-world country.


Ya it is about people recovering in third world counties and not here because the drugging in first world countries is keeping people sick.

Psychiatric drug dependence (addiction) and withdrawal reactions

All psychiatric drugs have the potential to cause withdrawal reactions, including the antidepressants, stimulants, tranquilizers, antipsychotic drugs, and “mood stabilizers” such as lithium. When the individual’s condition grows markedly worse within days or weeks of stopping the psychiatric drug, this is almost always due to a withdrawal reaction. However, misinformed doctors and misled parents, teachers, and patients think this is evidence that the individual “needs” the drug even more when what the patient really needs is time to overcome the drug’s contrary effects on the brain and body. http://www.breggin.com/index.php?option ... &Itemid=66



Thats how they create chronic mental patients.


njw36 wrote:I, myself, am capable of saying which drugs help me function and which make me worse.


Are you sure ?

Psychiatric drugs, and all other drugs that affect the mind often spellbind the individual by masking their adverse mental effects from the individual taking the drugs. If the person experiences a mental side effect, such as anger or sadness, he or she is likely to attribute it to something other than drug, perhaps blaming it on a loved one or on their own “mental illness.” Often people taking psychiatric drugs claim to feel better when in reality their mental life and behavior is impaired.

Medication spellbinding explains why so many people keep taking harmful psychiatric drugs, and other psychoactive substances, while only getting worse and even ruining their lives,” says Dr. Breggin. “The concept of medication spellbinding clarifies why people thinking they are better on Prozac, Zoloft, Paxil, Celexa, Xanax, Abilify, Seroquel, Zyprexa or other medications when their lives are deteriorating. Understanding medication spellbinding can help to free you and your loved ones from enslavement to psychoactive drugs of all kinds,” Dr. Breggin concluded. http://www.braindisablingtreatments.com ... nding.html



More harm than good.


njw36 wrote:there must be some way to differentiate between people who benefit from taking the drugs and those who do not.



Its easy, you ask people "what were you like and what was your life like BEFORE you got involved with psychiatry?" They never ask that, no way. Its always pile on more pills. Its never take responsibility for harming people.

Every day in every hospital in every town nationwide it goes like this for psychiatry's victims:

Hi parent, I see that your child had a psychotic episode after we fed him or her ADHD pills and anti depressants for a year and is in our hospital, we are now going to start the heavy duty mood pills and neuroleptics that also CAUSE psychotic episodes when he or she gets sick of being tired and zombie like all day and quits taking them. We will then use those the well known withdrawal reactions from quitting our pills as proof that he or she "needs" psychiatric medication and coerce more because we are the soulless cockroaches that run the psychiatric industry and we care more about money and our profits then peoples lives.
I survived psychiatry.
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Re: "Anti-Psych" Forum

Postby Cyberfang » Tue Apr 05, 2016 6:14 pm

I've always seen 'chemical imbalance' as complete #######4.
there's no such thing as true good or true evil, its all relative to the observer.
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Re: "Anti-Psych" Forum

Postby njw36 » Sat Apr 09, 2016 1:31 am

I see the reason for your point, but I lack the energy to fully argue common sense. It looks like you lack that same energy to argue your points as well.

I would just like to point out that therapy is hard to facilitate on someone who is actively paranoid and delusional or trying to kill themselves. While it is possible, it's just not considered "reasonable" in this society, and for good reasons.

People who have had bad experiences with things usually become strictly anti-thing. For instance, someone who cannot afford a car or who suffered a PTSD from a car accident is likely to keep pointing out the fact that we could live in an alternative society where cars aren't necessary (because such a thing could very well exist, and there would be pros/cons).

However, you have to look at the economics of the situation and really be objective about deciding whether or not you want to be 100% anti-something. I think you know this on some level.
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