Need help moving relative from prison to state hospital

First off I'm sorry this is a repost but it doesn't seem to be garnering any views where it's at; I'm including it here because it's anti-something:

I've a relative who about 20 years ago shot and killed a man due to his schizophrenia. This was in Florida. He plead insanity but was found guilty due to acknowledging in his delusion that murder is a crime (or, "a sin"). He was convicted of first degree murder, attempted to appeal both it and the severity of 25 to life, but the courts declined. This was some time ago.

In the mental ward of the prison he's not required to take his medication. This obviously causes problems. He was emancipated earlier this year when a family member saw him and claimed he wasn't allowed to eat or use the phone (can't tell you whether this is true or not but I wouldn't automatically discount it). There were attempts made to send someone official over to see how he was doing, but by that time he'd been swapped to a different facility where he now resides.

My point is, he's clearly very sick and at the mercy of a useless system. What can be done? He's had this diagnosis of PS since his teens and has a long history of being in and out of institutions in the 70s. Despite such a history he's not getting the help he needs and there must be other resources available. I thought with his verdict the best bet would be to have him sent to a state hospital (he was actually sent there for a year after convicted and then-some as I said before), but I discovered they only take inmates due to being found "incompetent to proceed" or "not guilty by insanity" of which he's been declared neither (no I don't understand why he was then there for a year).

I can also link the casetext page I found on the subject, although it isn't perfect. A witness testimony that was proven discredited was included--some woman claimed she'd seen him and victim together before the shooting but she was either mistaken or lying (the victim was stranger). If you'd like to see it, I'd rather send it over PM.

I would appreciate anyone's thoughts, opinions, suggestions, or their own experiences with the law. Is this a common occurrence? Will anyone listen?

I regret to say this a common occurrence. New stories and personal stories are abundant. If you Google "mentally ill ending up in prison" the number of links are huge.

The mentally ill are often sucked into the legal system one way or another at no fault of their own. The legal system is the last place the mentally ill belong being a system based on hundred plus year old ideas that everyone is always in control of their actions with punishment being the answer to everything. Those working in the legal system are not trained, educated or even aware of mental illness or how to treat it. Some even believe most symptoms of mental illness are something faked for attention or to get out of conviction.


The fact your relative latter admitted murder is a sin means nothing. Many individuals who suffer with schizophrenia will often black out or loose control of normal behavior latter having poor or no recollection. Latter they will be able to answer normally "yes murder is wrong" however this does not mean at the time they had control over their own behavior. It simply does not work that way.

People who are suspected of being guilty of a crime are often talked (more like brainwashed) into pleading guilty or something along those lines simply to bypass anything that could help them out in an effort to speed up the whole processes.

Speaking from personal experience and having known people who struggle with mental illness I can say with confidence many fall victim to the criminal justice system where the treatment they receive simply makes them worse causing them fall right back in.

I am sorry you and your relative are going through this btw.

Edit: I found this on Google:

http://law.stanford.edu/wp-content/uplo ... rt_v12.pdf

I hate to b a stick in the mud but a prison is a prison.


3. Any place of confinement or involuntary restraint. http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/prison

cntbelivit wrote:In the mental ward of the prison he's not required to take his medication.

When I was in the mental ward of the county jail after they took away my Clonopin they refused to give me anything to sleep and I was awake for a week I think and believed I was dead and in hell.

I wasn't dead only in hell.

The first time they made a move to take away my Clonopin I said no I was not a danger to myself but if anyone else messes with me during my anxiety and they get hurt its on you and they continues giving it to me and I stayed in the general population. Then on the med line someone saw what I get and tried to buy it from me with commissary . Ya right , trade my Clonopin for pop tarts and cinnamon buns. Pry it from my cold dead fingers.

Someone then accused me of selling it or that was just a lie from the people in psych to justify not giving it to me anymore.

I have seen the mental ward , scary place. There for a little over a week. People pacing and talking out load all day , some may jump you at any time for a reason only in there head.

The worst was the people who faked mental illness cause the were rats or just horrible people that were hiding in there because in general population they were not safe.

They were evil towards the mentally ill people in there and also were friends with the suicide prevention aids.

The suicide prevention aids or SPAs . The lowest prison scum I saw, that same I have authority and right to abuse. They acted like jail staff.

After my stay in psych was over I worked in the kitchen until I attempted to take one of the SPAs head off with a broom but he ran. And ran fast I couldn't get at him.


Later that year I met someone who told me about Mindfreedom international. That's what turned me on to 'anti-psychiatry' and saved me from more years of keep me sick drugging and lead me here. I also got a hold of a book that explained how psychiatry really works. That was God in my life.

I quit the drugs in jail and that is where I learned I was better without them. It just wasn't worth the long line up shut up ordeal to get anything but Clonopin. If I start feeling bad I will go tomorrow I told myself.

Tomorrow never came but a week or so later I went on the line and took the Celexa they prescribed. That night going to sleep I noticed I had Akathisia again. I never noticed it go away, until it came back and realized the cause.

Why did I get a year ?

DUI for one 24 oz can of beer. FU not guilty. F probation that is a trap. A five year or never ending trap. Stay sober 5 years or one slip go back , no way I was living like that.

cntbelivit wrote: I thought with his verdict the best bet would be to have him sent to a state hospital

I really don't think that is the lesser of two evils.

Homicide at Bridgewater State Hospital https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sxpf0OLk4qU

Families outraged over treatment of patients at Bridgewater State Hospital https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kp-lhJn4y6w

You all keep going with the discussion, I am tired from visiting those memorys of that year and writing about it.

My thoughts now are that a state hospital is the greater of two evils, a prison where you don't even have the right to say no to psychiatric drugs and must injest what ever a state psychiatrist writes on the pad.

That to me sounds like the closest thing to hell we have on this earth.

I really did a bad job of describing my journey through that hell, the "justice" system, but I made it out the other side better I think.

No way anyone in prison is refusing drugs do to so called Anosognosia - Lack of Insight. believe me people will take anything to sleep off there time so for anyone to refuse the effects of the drugs must be awful.

Forced neuroleptic drugs would also reduce your ability to defend yourself. Not a good thing in any institutional lockup. Not a good thing at all.

Try here

Prison Talk - Prison Information and Inmate Support ...
www.prisontalk.com/
Prisoner & Family Support Information Chat Forums.


There is a forum online about everything it seems.

Hey everyone, sorry it's taken me so long to get back. I appreciate your frank and kind replies; I'll try to put them to good use. I realized reading your comments that I left some info out and tried incorporating it into the replies. Here goes:

Riccola wrote:Those working in the legal system are not trained, educated or even aware of mental illness or how to treat it. Some even believe most symptoms of mental illness are something faked for attention or to get out of conviction.

For what it's worth, this is exactly what happened at the trial. One juror remarked "I personally have trouble with the insanity [plea]... I know what the law says but — and I would have a tendency to follow but I do not believe it." Another one claimed "Well, I will think that he's hiding something, scared. And if you're not afraid of anything that you would get up and tell it like it is." The defense attempted to strike these men from the court, but were denied, even after the latter admitted he thought his view implied the defendant was guilty.

You're absolutely right in that our authorities are inadequate.

Riccola wrote:The fact your relative latter admitted murder is a sin means nothing. Many individuals who suffer with schizophrenia will often black out or loose control of normal behavior latter having poor or no recollection. Latter they will be able to answer normally "yes murder is wrong" however this does not mean at the time they had control over their own behavior. It simply does not work that way.

I thought it "simply does not work that way" as well, but perhaps not. The doctor they appointed claimed, "he could have been delusional..." but as also "under the opinion that appellant knew what he was doing and its consequences...and knew that what he was doing was wrong." So, although he was insane at the time, he was legally still liable.

Riccola wrote:People who are suspected of being guilty of a crime are often talked (more like brainwashed) into pleading guilty or something along those lines simply to bypass anything that could help them out in an effort to speed up the whole processes.

Seems like everyone around them is usually more brainwashed than the the suspect; ironic in cases like this considering the defendant's the "insane" one. I definitely agree with your point.

Riccola wrote:Speaking from personal experience and having known people who struggle with mental illness I can say with confidence many fall victim to the criminal justice system where the treatment they receive simply makes them worse causing them fall right back in.

Yes. In all the time he's been in he's only been in and out of trouble, having privileges taken and given back only to revoked. I've seen and heard absolutely nothing to indicate anyone actually wants to help him.

Riccola wrote:I am sorry you and your relative are going through this btw.

He's been in there for years now, and his time will potentially be over with in a few years. I only hope he makes it with what's happening (not that he's got much of a life to look forward to when he gets out). But, thanks for your reply, it's good to know not everyone agrees with what was done.

Copy_Cat wrote:I hate to b a stick in the mud but a prison is a prison.


3. Any place of confinement or involuntary restraint. http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/prison

I shouldn't be surprised or think I have a say in the matter, I guess I'd only hoped otherwise.

Copy_Cat wrote:When I was in the mental ward of the county jail after they took away my Clonopin they refused to give me anything to sleep and I was awake for a week I think and believed I was dead and in hell.

I wasn't dead only in hell.

The first time they made a move to take away my Clonopin I said no I was not a danger to myself but if anyone else messes with me during my anxiety and they get hurt its on you and they continues giving it to me and I stayed in the general population. Then on the med line someone saw what I get and tried to buy it from me with commissary . Ya right , trade my Clonopin for pop tarts and cinnamon buns. Pry it from my cold dead fingers.

Someone then accused me of selling it or that was just a lie from the people in psych to justify not giving it to me anymore.

I have seen the mental ward , scary place. There for a little over a week. People pacing and talking out load all day , some may jump you at any time for a reason only in there head.

It's that kind of inhumane treatment I'm afraid of. "I wasn't dead only in hell." Yes, you were. I'm thankful you're still around to testify towards it. You must be an incredible person.

Copy_Cat wrote:The worst was the people who faked mental illness cause the were rats or just horrible people that were hiding in there because in general population they were not safe.

They were evil towards the mentally ill people in there and also were friends with the suicide prevention aids.

What utter corruption. How can the system be so screwed up we can't tell who belongs where?

Copy_Cat wrote:The suicide prevention aids or SPAs . The lowest prison scum I saw, that same I have authority and right to abuse. They acted like jail staff.

After my stay in psych was over I worked in the kitchen until I attempted to take one of the SPAs head off with a broom but he ran. And ran fast I couldn't get at him.

As giddy the thought makes me by association, I'm a bit relieved he got away. I'd hate to think you'd be stuck there even longer, but it's wrong you were driven to that point.

Copy_Cat wrote:Later that year I met someone who told me about Mindfreedom international. That's what turned me on to 'anti-psychiatry' and saved me from more years of keep me sick drugging and lead me here. I also got a hold of a book that explained how psychiatry really works. That was God in my life.

I quit the drugs in jail and that is where I learned I was better without them. It just wasn't worth the long line up shut up ordeal to get anything but Clonopin. If I start feeling bad I will go tomorrow I told myself.

Tomorrow never came but a week or so later I went on the line and took the Celexa they prescribed. That night going to sleep I noticed I had Akathisia again. I never noticed it go away, until it came back and realized the cause.

Perhaps I'll look into it? As someone who's been on faulty, painful meds with a poor psychiatrist, I'd like to hear more about it.

Copy_Cat wrote:Why did I get a year ?

DUI for one 24 oz can of beer. FU not guilty. F probation that is a trap. A five year or never ending trap. Stay sober 5 years or one slip go back , no way I was living like that.

Bull f**k**g shlt. Our system is a joke.

Copy_Cat wrote:I really don't think that is the lesser of two evils.

My thoughts now are that a state hospital is the greater of two evils, a prison where you don't even have the right to say no to psychiatric drugs and must injest what ever a state psychiatrist writes on the pad.

Well, that offers some comfort, assuming he makes it out of here alive.

I wonder, what are specifically the requirements to work in such a place? A mere BA of psychology?

Copy_Cat wrote:That to me sounds like the closest thing to hell we have on this earth.

I think it's all a perversion of help and order although it goes by its name. Awful, stupid world we live in. Hopefully it won't always be this way. If not for my relative, I hope there's something I can do.

Copy_Cat wrote:I really did a bad job of describing my journey through that hell, the "justice" system, but I made it out the other side better I think.

No way anyone in prison is refusing drugs do to so called Anosognosia - Lack of Insight. believe me people will take anything to sleep off there time so for anyone to refuse the effects of the drugs must be awful.

Forced neuroleptic drugs would also reduce your ability to defend yourself. Not a good thing in any institutional lockup. Not a good thing at all.

I thought you did a great job. I mean, I'm not expecting a 100% full and accurate description of your stay, that'd take some time and you probably wouldn't post it here, but I gained much insight as you put here.

Sounds like something out a soap opera, yet there it is.

Riccola wrote:Edit: I found this on Google:

http://law.stanford.edu/wp-content/uplo ... rt_v12.pdf

Copy_Cat wrote:Try here

Prison Talk - Prison Information and Inmate Support ...
http://www.prisontalk.com/
Prisoner & Family Support Information Chat Forums.

I haven't had the chance to look these up yet, but likely will later today. Thanks for both of yours help, I'm going to try the search engine as you've said.

ALL OF THE ABOVE is an eye opener for anybody that does not or has not dealt with the prison system and or mental health system.... The only advice that I could give YOU is beware of trying to help this person because it will turn your life and your families lives up side down for the worse, even if YOU are trying to help a human being that needs help.... Before everybody starts cursing me out for this opinion, think about putting yourself and your family and friends etc. through a living HELL.....