Psychology vs. Psychiatry

I understand the people on this form are anti-psychiatry. This term is quit flexible from what I've read; from people who are absolutely against any psychiatric medication in any situation to people who agree that it is necessary in certain situations (situations vary), from people who believe forced admission is completely unacceptable to some who think it is necessary in certain situations, from people who think psychiatrist are doing the devils work, conspiracy theorists, ect. ect.

My question is what are your views on psychologist?
Does the antipsychiatry movement include psychology?
I'm sure you guys have at least some critiques. What would a proper psychologist do/not do? what would their practice look like?
Or perhaps you think psychology as a practice is fundamentally wrong (it can't be "saved"/modified), explain.

***OPTIONAL READING***
To add some context: I'm 16. I've been hospitalized 4 times in the past 2 years, for a total of about 7 1\2 months (1month;1week;5months;1.5months). About 4 months of that were involuntary. I've been on prozac 40mg, celexa 30mg, trazedone 2mg, chlorpromazine 1mg, seroquel 450mg. Until about a month a go when I was transfered from the lockdown unit to the emergency department by ambulance, at which point I was on 450mg seroquel, 1-2mg trazedone, 1mg chlorpromazine and 20mg prozac. All three antipsychotics were stopped by the emergency staff, with utter dismay and a shake of their heads. I went through withdrawal. Prozac was also stopped a few days later because ,being antipsychotic free, my psychiatrist realized it was making me extremely hyperactive. I am not vengeful towards these professionals. I dont shoot the deputy but the sherriff. Currently I'm still off all medications. I'm seeing a psychiatrist weekly. I aspire to work in the mental health field one day (psychologist) but intend to stay away from medication.

I tend to be softer on psychologists than I do psychiatrists due to the fact that many psychologists don't have a clinical license to prescribe medication. That being said, there Are some ridiculous psychologists out there. Some find it hard to be unbiased and push their opinion on their clients instead of helping their clients think for themselves.Some Are amazing. My experience with them has been kind of horrible though so Maybe I'm biased. Most of the time I wasn't listened to and the only thing they cared about was the fact that a piece of paper needed to be filled out for the insurance companies. That's another important note: I feel worse for psychologists, especially those with less education than others, because the ability to open their own practice and go by their own rules is limited..If they're tied down by an insurance company they must follow the rules in order to take patients. If they choose not to associate with an insurance company, they often have to charge full price to their clients in order to get paid their deserving salary and that makes it difficult for people like me who have hardly any income to get any help. Most everyone in the industry is puppeteered by insurance and pharmaceutical companies.

I mean, really now: when studies get published saying antipsychotics Are shown to not affect pregnant women or their fetus, I start to get pissed off. Or when studies start saying "there's an increase in ADHD in children". No, there's an increasing in DIAGNOSING It and handing out medication for it.

I'm not completely antipsychiatry as im studying to be a psychiatrist. I believe there Are good ones out there. In my opinion, the antipsychiatry movement should be directed to the entire business that is the mental health industry, not just psychiatry and not just psychology, and certainly not just the people who go to school and get a degree in psychology. There's too many issues in the system to blame anyone individually at all. Psychiatrists prescribe too much, psychologists learn bad techniques for therapy, the research companies put out false information like the psychopharnecutical companies bribe them to do, and the insurance companies bribe the therapists/psychologists/psychiatrists to push medication on people who don't need it. Everyone Is at fault here. The APA is in bed with all of them and the DSM-V (psychologists Bible in case you didn't know) reflects that. I could go on for ages.

A proper psychologist should focus on their client. Give their client a free, non-jugemental place to speak freely. I've never felt comfortable around mine. They shouldn't do too much talking, But more active listening. Taking into account their clients socio-economic status, their background, their current life stressors, their support system at home, is key to treating whatever illness may or may not be there, instead of saying "Yep, you're depressed, take some prozac". I do believe some people benefit from medication and therapy simultaneously, some just benefit from medication, some just benefit from therapy. the hard part is figuring out who is who and not enough psychologist or psychiatrists take the time to do so.

There Are so many things wrong with the system. I'm inclined to say it can't be saved as a whole, But I believe helping individual by individual is the best I, as one person, can do. I wish I could take on the whole system and stick it to the man But there's no point in taking my anger out on them when I could be using it to fuel my motivation to help others in need.

You say you want to be a psychologist and that's great. I know you probably already grasped that you shouldn't trust everything you hear about the psychological industry, good or bad, and I'd say take some time to do a lot of outside research on your own. Researchers Are claiming biochemical reasons for disorders without sufficient evidence, toddlers Are being diagnosed with some pretty severe mental illnesses and given some pretty heavy medication without anyone knowing the effect on them as an adult. There's just so much going on, the industry has such a bad reputation now it's almost embarrassing to tell people by major. All I have to say is Good luck. You're stepping into a war.

@Alucard

I am well aware I would be stepping into a war. I am less concerned of being shot than being indoctrinated and subsequently fighting for the wrong side.

How do you make treatments based on research when you can never tell which results aren't infected? Whether you go off of this infected research or you decide to discard research in practice.. You would be practicing a pseudoscience, no?

Sometimes I actually feel inclined to become a psychiatrist just so I'd have prescribing rights and therefore save patients from seeing another psychiatrist who would give them unnecessary meds. Personally i dont think I wouldn't be able to get through med school with that attitude.

I agree: helping individual by individual is the best I think I could do given the state of the field.

the_ambivalence wrote:what are your views on psychologist?
Does the antipsychiatry movement include psychology?
I'm sure you guys have at least some critiques. What would a proper psychologist do/not do? what would their practice look like?
Or perhaps you think psychology as a practice is fundamentally wrong (it can't be "saved"/modified), explain.

They'll are a bunch of p*ssheads with memory spans shorter than a goldfishes.

Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh yes.

A proper psychologist would know your name and condition without having to look at your notes. A proper psychologist would not classify every single mental disorder as depression.

It wouldn't have a poster that lists symptoms of Schizophrenia and then say "You're probably just depressed."

the_ambivalence wrote:@Alucard
How do you make treatments based on research when you can never tell which results aren't infected? Whether you go off of this infected research or you decide to discard research in practice.. You would be practicing a pseudoscience, no?

That's a good question and it's one of the main problems. There's so many people lying you can't tell who isn't. Social Sciences are so hard to regulate because we don't have a system like the "hard" sciences do; we can't go off math to prove something's right or wrong. We have to trust people which subsequently makes everyone vulnerable all the time. No matter which way you go, you're right, there's going to be some kind of pseudoscience going on. But is there really a solution at all?

One of the best psychology professors I ever encountered told us conducting psychotherapy without having been a part of research and conducting research without ever having conducted psychotherapy is pointless. You're only getting half the story, and I agree. The reason why you sometimes feel like becoming a psychiatrist is the exact reason why I'm choosing the career path I am. I have to constantly remind myself it's about the people and not about revenge on all the idiots in the industry; i kind of have an anger problem.

They're fumbling to provide "hardcore" scientific evidence, claiming biomarkers as you've mentioned. Yet they're claiming this on faulty grounds which actually discredits the practice(since most everyone is following it), the exact opposite of what they were trying to do. Raising questions of either 1) profession incompetence 2) conspiracy (which leads back to incompetence). I know I didn't need to reiterate but I felt like I need to because it makes me so upset.. not like I can talk with my psychiatrist about it:wink:

Alucard wrote: No matter which way you go, you're right, there's going to be some kind of pseudoscience going on. But is there really a solution at all?

Sadly, no, there isn't.

Alucard wrote:The reason why you sometimes feel like becoming a psychiatrist is the exact reason why I'm choosing the career path I am. I have to constantly remind myself it's about the people and not about revenge on all the idiots in the industry; i kind of have an anger problem.

I must say that is inspiring to me. Keep me posted.

I've only had one decent psychiatrist, the other was godawful. The whole session made me feel like dirt and cry. As far as psychologist, they're a whole other animal. I've had many psychologist actually help me, and licensed mental health counselors (LMHCs). I've had one counselor in my life since I was 14, and now I'm 20. I've been seeing psychologists since I was seven. I only saw a psychiatrist last year on the recommendations of a decent college counselor.

I plan on getting a Ph.D. in clinical psychology. I already have my B.A. in psychology I once wanted to get a M.D. in psychiatry in hopes to change the field. Not so many drugs. Actually talking to patients. Listening (none of them listen! )

I would think some of the antipsychiatry opposes psychology; psychiatry, though now far removed, is based in psychology (especially abnormal or neuropsychology). But to me, it's when psychiatrist 'power-trip' and start slapping labels and diagnosis everywhere. Some states are beginning to allow psychologists to prescribe, and I personally think it's wonderful. I plan on moving to a state that allows it. Mainly because, psychologist talk a lot more with patients. There's a entire 'getting to know you' session each visit (~45 minutes each time), versus the fake show of visiting the psychiatrist. The first visit is 45 minutes, and every one after it's 15 minutes!

That being said, I'm trying for a degree in nursing right now so I can afford graduate school -.-' On the plus side, I can try to better psychiatric nursing and other nursing fields that use psychology (like hospice...people need guidance on how to deal with death). Baby steps.

Proper psychologists really listen. They make you step back and re-examine your situation. Psychology doesn't 'fix' anything, it gives you the tools to do so. And these tools can be used again later in life. I think of psychology more as training a person. Psychiatry...I can't say they're all evil, but I really do hope the good ones are bettering the community and not slapping a band-aid over it.

I hope to be as good as psychologist as the professors, life experiences, my own psychologists and my own counselors were. I hope I can manifest a career and really help people.

I'm an anti-psychologist and anti-psychiatrist. I had bad experiences with both.

I guess that mankind didn't evolve enough to be able to understand what happens in our brain and these professionals are playing with our pain.

I found solutions by myself. I have a shower everyday as soon as I wake up - I also wash my hair. This helps me feel alive. Then I listen to classical music.

I became a vegetarian. My mood is better and I feel that my body is “clean”.

Sometimes nothing works, so I pray and wait.

@martha33 I appreciate your opinion

martha33 wrote:I guess that mankind didn't evolve enough to be able to understand what happens in our brain and these professionals are playing with our pain.

I feel its a bit naive to think that we would ever fully understand what is happening in our brain. The brain is the most complex structure in the known universe. It would be hard enough to measure it objectively even without neuroplasticity.
Where everyone goes wrong is parading around like they understand most of what's going on in the brain. Its actually laughable for someone to exclame that. Handing out medications to change the chemicals and structure of something so unknown...

I think there's a line though. A line that you cross, when the question is "what else can we do?" When someone has catatonic schizophrenia. They literally can't move; therefore they can't eat, drink, talk ect. ect. They lay in a hospital bed unmoving, frozen, you have to give them nutrients through an IV to keep them from becoming malnourished. They can't be discharged, they would surely die. Do you give them 3mg lorazepam?

I've been catatonic before and i assure if i could move i would've killed myself, if i could've spoken i would've begged someone to put me out of my misery.

What I'm saying is that its not always as simple as taking a shower every morning, listening to classical music and similar things. Some people aren't even capable of doing that.

But that's just my opinion.
And like I said before appreciate yours.

I know that it’s not simple. I do many other things when I feel like breaking everything around me. I just gave you an example of ways to survive when the worst moments come.

A psychiatrist gave me a drug that made me so sick that I couldn't sit down or stand up without feeling like throwing up. Later I found out that the drug he gave me was causing akathisia. He was making me more mentally ill instead of helping me.

Then I went to a psychologist, I paid a lot of money but she was not saying anything, just listening to me. She told me that I had to decide what to do. If I knew what to do I wouldn’t go there.

Then I had group therapy. It was cheaper, but it made me more depressed and more angry. There was only one man in the group, and many women. They were all telling their problems and crying, and the psychologist was doing nothing. Sometimes he would say a few words, and then wait for us the next week.

I stopped everything and I looked for other alternatives, but I saw that there are only “theories” that don't work. If you have a mental illness you have to look for ways to survive by yourself.