School shooting Reynolds HS in Troutdale Ore , SSRI's ?

Exiled. wrote:creating a "perfect storm"

The drugs have to be part of the equation for this perfect storm.

1. They change thinking and feeling

2. Most of the shooters are taking them

A. Coincidence ?

I get it, troubled kids are drugged and troubled kids do shootings but it seems more than coincidence.

Plus psych drugs made me bug out and behave badly enough to make the papers and T.V news so its going to take alot to convince me of coincidence.


Lets keep this topic going.

Exiled. wrote:It's true that they don't just snap but thousands of people have violent thoughts who will never act out. It's next to impossible to differentiate between the two.

I know. But people conitune to believe that shrinks can and should be able to predict the future. If they locked up everyone who was "dangerous" they would have hundreds of thousands of people locked up indefinitely.

Exiled. wrote:

Riccola wrote:Other countries have nothing to do with this.

"I disagree. There's a reason why the numbers are atrocious in the US compared to everywhere else. It's probably a combination of reasons creating a "perfect storm" here. We need to find those reasons and fix them. We do that by comparing what other countries are doing to what we're doing. Otherwise we're just blindly making knee-jerk changes that could either work or be detrimental."

I have to agree believe it or not for the most part. I do agree that there is a perfect storm. Things are happening/ not happening leading up to this. I have to also agree with comparing other countries in what they are doing that works out right. Without a doubt some countries have lower levels of violence then us.











"This doesn't match my understanding and experience. Do you have a source that says she told the police he shouldn't be hospitalized? Every time the police are involved in my care, it goes like this: The medical professionals report to the police that I'm a danger to myself or others. The police come and I have a chance to convince the police that I'm not. I get a free ride to the local psych ward wearing handcuffs."

Being honest Im reading reports that say different things, probably because new evidence is emerging/ being considered in the Holmes case. This is one source that kinda somes it all up so to speak: http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_ ... rsity.html

But here is the thing, in some states, if a hospital psychiatrists declares the patient dangerous he can be detained and not released until safe. Getting them there is easier in some cases others not. However, in the Holmes case had the psychiatrist went to the local police and truly expressed her concerns they would've went to his apartment and discovered what would automatically get him arrested.

"It's true that they don't just snap but thousands of people have violent thoughts who will never act out. It's next to impossible to differentiate between the two."


I absolutely disagree on this. Its so far away from reality. We all have occasional violent thoughts, but all of these killers have violent thinking well beyond the norm. WELL, WELL beyond the norm. These people will fantasize about it, talk about it, plan about it, wright about it, brag about it and on and on. They are infatuated with violence. It goes on for years. All of these killers have years worth of writing, personal histories and the like screaming pathological obsession. That is well documented. All of these killers also have delusions if you dig down deep enough. They all talk about being harmed or prosecuted by people all the time every time (which may or may not be a delusion if these people are in an abusive environment), delusions of grandeur, thinking they are on a mission by some power entity, believing they are fictional characters, ect ect. Its safe to say that while not all of them walk around floridly displaying this to everyone, if any good professional scratches the surface they will find plenty of it. An example are journals, threats made to friends, drawings, ect ect all which in itself is evidence. The families always bring up how they feared for the killers, friends bring up how they have talked about it. The problem is that its not always taken as serious or investigated further. And its not like any of these people weren't seeing psychiatrists. They were, but did the system do anything? No. Truth is if you look deep enough any competent professional can see these people are disasters waiting to happen but the system is rigged that they fall right through.

It's a gross human rights violation to lock someone up for thought crimes. You can't lock someone up for thinking about breaking the law. Like I said before - you would have hundreds of thousands of people incarcerated indefinitely. At least - maybe a million. Look at all the wackos who post vids on youtube. Remember the guy who said he would go around killing people if they banned his AR-15? There are lots of people like that.

This discussion brings up some very good points about involuntary hospitalization, forced drugging, and what to do with people who have these violent thoughts. This is one of those lines where we need to think hard from an anti-psych stand pint about what to do with people who have these thoughts? As AP people, we often argue against involuntary hospitalization due to these types of thoughts as it becomes way to easy for anyone on the street to point a finger and say, "This person said they wanted to kill someone! Lock them up!" The world has swung in the other direction, where now it is that they have to be a "danger to themselves or others" and there has to be some evidence for this, not just a random person pointing a finger and saying this. It's a very fine line we walk here. Then what do we do with people who are a danger? Do we force drug them?

I love the debates we can have here

Cheze2 wrote:This discussion brings up some very good points about involuntary hospitalization, forced drugging, and what to do with people who have these violent thoughts. This is one of those lines where we need to think hard from an anti-psych stand pint about what to do with people who have these thoughts? As AP people, we often argue against involuntary hospitalization due to these types of thoughts as it becomes way to easy for anyone on the street to point a finger and say, "This person said they wanted to kill someone! Lock them up!" The world has swung in the other direction, where now it is that they have to be a "danger to themselves or others" and there has to be some evidence for this, not just a random person pointing a finger and saying this. It's a very fine line we walk here. Then what do we do with people who are a danger? Do we force drug them?

I love the debates we can have here

You mean like if a kid is getting bullied in school and tells the school psychologist how much they would like to hurt the people doing it ?

I live in Western society; a place of nice trees, bullies, sociopaths and money! The question is; why are more kids not rebelling! The communities are lucky. These kids take out their bitter anger on the schools; its kind a innocent. They don't understand; its the adults causing the problem! If they knew this, they might head for the down town area of the city and start shooting!

You can only push people so far before they fight back! before they start are war! Its my belief, most of these kids have had there rights taken from them; meaning, they are abused or bullied or terrorized until they go to war!

Any and all animals go to war if you attack them. Seems, only humans suggests the unthinkable. " we will attack other humans until they have to go to war to protect their human rights, when they attempt it we will control them"! It does not work! When a teenagers rights are taken and that teenager is pushed in to submission he or she will kill! How hard is this to understand!

Drugs;
This is a cheap ploy by the local school systems and parents in denial to switch the blame direction.

-- Sun Jun 15, 2014 12:20 am --

I live in Western society; a place of nice trees, bullies, sociopaths and money! The question is; why are more kids not rebelling! The communities are lucky. These kids take out their bitter anger on the schools; its kind a innocent. They don't understand; its the adults causing the problem! If they knew this, they might head for the down town area of the city and start shooting!

You can only push people so far before they fight back! before they start are war! Its my belief, most of these kids have had there rights taken from them; meaning, they are abused or bullied or terrorized until they go to war!

Any and all animals go to war if you attack them. Seems, only humans suggests the unthinkable. " we will attack other humans until they have to go to war to protect their human rights, when they attempt it we will control them"! It does not work! When a teenagers rights are taken and that teenager is pushed in to submission he or she will kill! How hard is this to understand!

Drugs;
This is a cheap ploy by the local school systems and parents in denial to switch the blame direction.

Copy_Cat wrote:You mean like if a kid is getting bullied in school and tells the school psychologist how much they would like to hurt the people doing it ?

Great example!

OMNICELL wrote:You can only push people so far before they fight back! before they start are war! Its my belief, most of these kids have had there rights taken from them; meaning, they are abused or bullied or terrorized until they go to war!

I think I agree with you, Look what googling "school is like prison" results in;

18 Signs That Life In U.S. Public Schools Is Now Essentially Equivalent to Life In U.S. Prisons

"In the United States today, our public schools are not very good at educating our students, but they sure are great training grounds for learning how to live in a Big Brother police state control grid. Sadly, life in many U.S. public schools is now essentially equivalent to life in U.S. prisons. Most parents don't realize this, but our students have very few rights when they are in school. Our public school students are being watched, tracked, recorded, searched and controlled like never before. Back when I was in high school, it was unheard of for a police officer to come to school, but today our public school students are being handcuffed and arrested in staggering numbers. When I was young we would joke that going to school was like going to prison, but today that is actually true.

The following are 18 signs that life in our public schools is now very similar to life in our prisons...."

Read more http://archive.lewrockwell.com/rep2/public-schools-like-prisons.html

OMNICELL , I think you may have nailed it. A big part of the "perfect storm".

Riccola wrote:There's a reason why the numbers are atrocious in the US compared to everywhere else. It's probably a combination of reasons creating a "perfect storm" here.

http://youtu.be/N6r9neE89Fg

and this

New York school sets up security checkpoints, bans backpacks, restricts bathroom access


http://www.policestateusa.com/2014/want ... -security/


TULSA, OK — Two teens sharing a private moment in a school parking lot were chased away in a hail of gunfire by an armed campus cop.

The disturbing incident took place when a boy and girl parked in the darkened lot of Eliot Elementary School at 1:30 a.m. on May 25th. The overnight patrol officer saw the car and initiated a confrontation.

The teens were caught "doing something that they shouldn’t have been doing" according to Chris Payne, an official from Tulsa Public Schools (TPS).

The officer demanded the embarrassed teens produce identification and started asking questions that they reportedly did not want to answer. The young male, 17, evaded the questions when he allegedly tried to drive away. In response, the TPS officer drew his weapon and opened fire.

http://www.policestateusa.com/2014/offi ... rking-lot/

DANA POINT, CA — Students at a California high school were forced to hunker down as SWAT teams with weapons drawn searched their entire campus for weapons. The effort included a warrantless search of students’ vehicles, lockers, backpacks, and classrooms. The long 4-hour detention reportedly forced some students to urinate in darkened classrooms


http://www.policestateusa.com/2014/dana ... -lockdown/