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Brain Damage from Seroquel?

Open discussion about the Anti-Psychiatry Movement and related topics. This includes the opposition to forced treatment and hospitalization as well as the belief that Psychiatric Medication does more harm than good. Please note that these topics are controversial and therefore this forum may offend some people. This is not the belief of Psych Forums or Get Mental Help and this forum was posted to offer a safe place to discuss these beliefs.

Re: Brain Damage from Seroquel?

Postby Copy_Cat » Sat May 17, 2014 3:59 am

Olddays14 wrote:Damn that sounds rough, and for 9 months...sheesh, it has only been four months with me and I think i am even making progress slowly but surely. Physically I am ok, no nausea, no insomnia, just headaches which i am working with.

How long were you on Zyprexa for in total? I tried Zyprexa for a few days and I did not like it at all, that is when I tried seroquel and found it more tolerable so I stuck with it and took it for three years, the last two years being at 600mg and the first year being on 300mg. Does that sound like something my brain can recover from?


Took that crap for too long but only at night for sleep after benzos made my insomnia worse and then I had ADHD pills to wake up. Then I got off the Benzos and ADHD pills and came out of withdrawal on Zyprexa only for sleep and did not care for Zombie land that lasted 24/7. I thought Zombie land was "sober" I was screwed up so many meds for so long untill the Zyprexa Rx ran out and I realized why I couldent feel. Then of course I got withdrawal sick but I had to be off it.

Anyway , Start saying "mind" instead of brain , Blaming the brain for everything is like blaming the T.V cause you don't like the programs you are watching.


look what I found http://comingdownfromseroquel.blogspot.com/2009/03/cold-turkey-and-seroquel.html

http://www.google.com/search?q=seroquel+withdrawal

When I got withdrawal sick in 2007 there was 2 hard to find threads online reporting what was going on, things have changed.
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Re: Brain Damage from Seroquel?

Postby Copy_Cat » Sat May 17, 2014 5:31 am

http://www.madinamerica.com/2012/06/after-seroquel/

I'm guessing you have seen these but why not a informative thread ?
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Re: Brain Damage from Seroquel?

Postby Olddays14 » Sat May 17, 2014 6:53 pm

Thanks. I just have hope and faith that my mind will recover from this and get back to a balanced state without meds, I think my mind can adjust and "find itself" again, I just got to give it time and patience, and try and help myself by educating myself and trying to get back into the groove of things. I am just discouraged these days because of my state now, it really gets me down and I just want to try and forget about it all and try and move forward, but my depression and anxiety holds me back, my true emotions and feelings that were numbed for years, now I am just left here thinking about what to do with all of this.

Copy_Cat wrote:
Olddays14 wrote:Damn that sounds rough, and for 9 months...sheesh, it has only been four months with me and I think i am even making progress slowly but surely. Physically I am ok, no nausea, no insomnia, just headaches which i am working with.

How long were you on Zyprexa for in total? I tried Zyprexa for a few days and I did not like it at all, that is when I tried seroquel and found it more tolerable so I stuck with it and took it for three years, the last two years being at 600mg and the first year being on 300mg. Does that sound like something my brain can recover from?


Took that crap for too long but only at night for sleep after benzos made my insomnia worse and then I had ADHD pills to wake up. Then I got off the Benzos and ADHD pills and came out of withdrawal on Zyprexa only for sleep and did not care for Zombie land that lasted 24/7. I thought Zombie land was "sober" I was screwed up so many meds for so long untill the Zyprexa Rx ran out and I realized why I couldent feel. Then of course I got withdrawal sick but I had to be off it.

Anyway , Start saying "mind" instead of brain , Blaming the brain for everything is like blaming the T.V cause you don't like the programs you are watching.


look what I found http://comingdownfromseroquel.blogspot.com/2009/03/cold-turkey-and-seroquel.html

http://www.google.com/search?q=seroquel+withdrawal

When I got withdrawal sick in 2007 there was 2 hard to find threads online reporting what was going on, things have changed.
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Re: Brain Damage from Seroquel?

Postby Olddays14 » Sat May 17, 2014 8:09 pm

"Start saying "mind" instead of brain , Blaming the brain for everything is like blaming the T.V cause you don't like the programs you are watching"

I really like that you said that, could you elaborate more on that?

I think what you mean by that is that I am putting too much emphasis of what these meds could have done to me from a neurological stand point, and how it may seem that I feel as though there is no turning back now and that because it has to do with the "brain" it is set in stone, permanent. I am aware that this all may seem as if I am giving up, saying to myself "o it is a brain issue now because of the meds" and just from that it's an excuse to quit and lose hope as if there is nothing I can do about it, I am probably coming off that way, maybe it is just paranoia, concern, or anxiety, in my mind rightfully so, but now i see that maybe i am jumping the gun, putting too much power on one aspect of this situation. I am still the same person, i feel different yes, but I can still like the same things, I can still talk and write. Who the hell knows how and where my "brain" stands now compared to when I was on the meds, I wonder if it even matters, if it makes that much of a difference. I still have a mind, I still have a soul haha
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Re: Brain Damage from Seroquel?

Postby Copy_Cat » Sat May 17, 2014 8:46 pm

Here is a quote and the link that got me started thinking about mind Vs brain,

The basic problem with the medical model is that people take it literally rather than understanding it as the metaphor it is. The medical model portrays the mind as an object. It equates mind with brain and uses this assumption to justify defining certain thoughts, feelings, and behavior as medical diseases.

http://www.szasz.com/leifercritic.pdf

Olddays14 wrote:"Start saying "mind" instead of brain , Blaming the brain for everything is like blaming the T.V cause you don't like the programs you are watching"


The T.V analogy I got from here http://www.bible.ca/psychiatry/welcome.htm

Found that when we were doing a thread about biological psychiatry being like an atheist belief or something.
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Re: Brain Damage from Seroquel?

Postby Olddays14 » Sat May 17, 2014 9:03 pm

Thanks. So was I on point with my interpretation from my last point about what that meant? And are the things I am becoming aware of make sense? As far as brain and mind goes?

Copy_Cat wrote:Here is a quote and the link that got me started thinking about mind Vs brain,

The basic problem with the medical model is that people take it literally rather than understanding it as the metaphor it is. The medical model portrays the mind as an object. It equates mind with brain and uses this assumption to justify defining certain thoughts, feelings, and behavior as medical diseases.

http://www.szasz.com/leifercritic.pdf

Olddays14 wrote:"Start saying "mind" instead of brain , Blaming the brain for everything is like blaming the T.V cause you don't like the programs you are watching"


The T.V analogy I got from here http://www.bible.ca/psychiatry/welcome.htm

Found that when we were doing a thread about biological psychiatry being like an atheist belief or something.
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Re: Brain Damage from Seroquel?

Postby Copy_Cat » Sun May 18, 2014 3:37 am

Olddays14 wrote:Thanks. So was I on point with my interpretation from my last point about what that meant? And are the things I am becoming aware of make sense? As far as brain and mind goes?


Do you get it yet ?

While posing as "authorities" on the mind and mental health, psychiatry has no medical basis for any of its treatments.

“In fourty years, ‘biological’ psychiatry has yet to validate a single psychiatric condition/diagnosis as an abnormality/disease, or as anything ‘neurological,’ ‘biological,’ ‘chemically-imbalanced’ or ‘genetic.’” —Dr. Fred Baughman Jr., child neurologist, Fellow of the American Academy of Neurology

There is no medical test psychiatry can do on the living and no autopsy they can do on the dead to prove any has or had any of their diagnoses. Mental suffering is very real but No proof of broken brains exists.

For example if it did exist pro psychiatry fans would be pounding this forum into the dirt with studies, links, and all kinds of proof proving psychiatry is "medical" but that never ever happens.
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Re: Brain Damage from Seroquel?

Postby Olddays14 » Sun May 18, 2014 4:01 am

Yes, I did get it thank you. But my question was not if my brain was damaged to begin with. My original question was simply if this anti psychotic drug I was taking could have caused damage to my brain, and if so, can it be fixed, can it recuperate? Everything else you are saying is fine but it confuses me because I am not sure what it has to do with my specific case.

Copy_Cat wrote:
Olddays14 wrote:Thanks. So was I on point with my interpretation from my last point about what that meant? And are the things I am becoming aware of make sense? As far as brain and mind goes?


Do you get it yet ?

While posing as "authorities" on the mind and mental health, psychiatry has no medical basis for any of its treatments.

“In fourty years, ‘biological’ psychiatry has yet to validate a single psychiatric condition/diagnosis as an abnormality/disease, or as anything ‘neurological,’ ‘biological,’ ‘chemically-imbalanced’ or ‘genetic.’” —Dr. Fred Baughman Jr., child neurologist, Fellow of the American Academy of Neurology

There is no medical test psychiatry can do on the living and no autopsy they can do on the dead to prove any has or had any of their diagnoses. Mental suffering is very real but No proof of broken brains exists.

For example if it did exist pro psychiatry fans would be pounding this forum into the dirt with studies, links, and all kinds of proof proving psychiatry is "medical" but that never ever happens.
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Re: Brain Damage from Seroquel?

Postby Olddays14 » Sun May 18, 2014 12:22 pm

It's ok, I got it now, no more further explanations. Thanks for your help, I appreciate it :)
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Re: Brain Damage from Seroquel?

Postby twistednerve » Tue May 20, 2014 10:05 pm

"Damage" is not quite the word, I believe. But that it messed with your brain function, it did. All psychiatrical meds do, in their own way. Antipsychotics are just big offenders, because they mess so much, with so much stuff.

Medications usually either increase the ammount of certain neurotransmitters in certain receptors, or decrease it.
For not receiving the appropriate ammount of neurotransmitters or receiving too much, now your brain has a completely different receptor make up it had before Seroquel.

If you flood receptors with a lot of neurotransmitters, or make them just overstimulated with them with whichever mechanism, the brain tries to "level" things by decreasing the ammount of receptors. This makes you less able to receive stimulation in that receptor. The inverse also happens: If you never get enough neurotransmitters in a receptor, the brain tries to level things by increasing the number of receptors. This makes you way too stimulated to the neurotransmitters the affect that receptor.

There are many different receptor types, that interact with their appropriate neurotransmitters. Depending where they are, they do different things in the body (they're not just in the brain).

Neurotransmitters move through the body, and serve as signaling for the receptor to signal other stuff in the body to do it's functions. Lock and key, fuel and engine.

Since Seroquel mainly (if I remember correctly) DECREASE dopamine, histamine and (some)serotonin receptors, while INCREASE (some)serotonin and norpepinephrine receptors, you're probably quite messed up right now. :lol: Because those are a lot of different things for the body to fix now that it is working without the medication in your body. It just doesn't know how to quite make things work like it used to, or in the just right ammount/manner.

Anyways, now that you know how it works, let me try to help by giving insight to your current "symptoms".

I don't think you are psychotic. Honestly, you are A HELL LOT LIKE I WAS after coming off Geodon (another antipsychotic, which I also took without being psychotic or bipolar, or anything serious).
Reading your description just schocked me, our symptoms after coming off are nearly identical. I am genuinely angry at psychiatrists right now.

To me, you are describing intense anxiety, ADD-like symptoms, obsessional thinking and difficulty having a focused mind. It's like you are somewhat "trapped" inside a very restless mind, full of internal, intense thoughts, fueled by fear and worry, that just can't pick what to discard and what to keep in a rational manner, right? Worrying too much, feeling like certain details that truly are pointless take over your mind irrationally... Reviewing, analyzing, testing, imagining it, running over and over in your mind, telling the same things to the thoughts, telling the same things to yourself about the thoughts. Then out of the blue, it starts again. Rinse and repeat.


If you want to actually go deeper into talking about this, I would appreciate it. Shoot me a PM if you do.

For years I've been trying to explain how I feel to psychiatrists... They never believe it was the meds, and they keep trying to place it under diagnose criteria.

Man, I felt exactly like this for years after Geodon. Still do.

Anyways, took me a long time to recover from this, and I'm not 100%. Heck, not 60%.
But don't worry, it isn't psychosis. IT IS BELIEVED at least, that in my case, it is "pure O" OCD. Purely obsessional, withouht compulsions. You have the repetitive thoughts in your mind, and crazy worry, but no need to associate them with anything tangible.

You know what worked best for me? Lithium. Lithium is a very safe, very effective and damage-free medication (unless your kidneys are not that good). And it's specially good at repairing the brain to it's best shape, since it evokes neurogenesis like no other thing.
It also shoots serotonin to the hippocampus, amongst other technical goodies, which helps obsessions a lot. But aside from helping the brain repair itself, it helps calm down the mind (prepare to get even less intelligent, though with less "clutter"). So it's a way to fix in the long term, and also to treat the symptoms.


Don't worry man, you're not psychotic. You just had Seroquel get dopamine and serotonin out of whack, and now parts of your brain just can't work right... but not psychotic or anything THAT serious. Just anxiety and obsessional thinking.

If you wanna get serious about fixing yourself, you should learn about neurotransmitters, receptors and the medication, supplements or whatever that work on them.

Let me try to help with medication that I know it works for me or other people:

To me, lithium is the base of the treatment. It holds everything in place, so to speak. Never too low, never too high. Calms my mind greatly, makes my mood better, helps me shift attention on command and shuts down the automatic obsessive thoughts like no other medication.

Then I work on serotonin. Serotonin is the main thing you want to get UP if you want to treat obsessions. I particularly think SSRIs and SNRIs (Citalopram, Escitalopram, Fluoxetine, Sertraline, Venlafaxine, Duloxetine, Paroxetine, Fluvoxamine) are absolute garbage. Nasty side effects, too much apathy and dulling while you take them, and rarely help on the long term. Not to mention withdrawals of their own.
I enjoyed tianeptine (Stablon) the most from all antidepressants I took, to help with obsessive thinking. Really calms down the mind and I feel much better upon cessing treatment. People say a lot of good things from slow releasing trazodone, as well. I never took it for long, though, to say personally if it works. But it increases serotonin a lot. People speak very highly of Anafranil (clomipramine), a tricyclic antidepressant that is the ultimate weapon against OCD. I never took it, due to sheer fear of the side effects and possibility to mess with your heart (TCAs are old antidepressants that are used as a last resort due to their dangerous, possibily-fatal side effects. But their effectiveness is unmatched to this day).

Currently, I take tianeptine every now and then only (it's a drug that works immediately), but take 300mgs of 5-HTP everyday. 5-HTP has been amazing for mood and the thoughts. 5-HTP is actual serotonin, you take in powder form. You can buy it on iHerb.com or any other supplement store or drug store. It helps me a lot.

It's funny, but dopamine also needs to be increased in my case. BUT JUST IN THE RIGHT AMMOUNT...
Obsessions and paranoia are created by excessive dopamine mostly, in certain areas of the brain. Seroquel's main action is to decrease dopamine, so when you took Seroquel off, your brain was just too sensitive to your normal levels of dopamine (less neurotransmitters, more receptors, as I said at the beginning of this), making you think too much, obsess, have too much mental energy going to all the wrong places, have a lot of anxiety, etc.. Anyways, it's my theory. For me, i can't increase dopamine much. It worsens anxiety and obsessions. But just the right ammount is great to feel actually more focused on EXTERIOR STUFF, INSTEAD OF JUST OBSESSING INTERNALLY ALL THE TIME. You can try stimulants (Adderal, Ritalin, dexedrine, etc..), bupropion, or like I do, take l-tyrosine. l-tyrosine is much like 5-HTP, an aminoacid that is converted to neurotransmitters in your body. l-tyrosine becomes dopamine, and the body then decides by itself what to do with this extra dopamine, unlike a med that would just shoot dopamine everywhere in a killing spree of neurons.

Anyways, hope I can help. Your symptoms are so much like mine, and for the very same cause, that I literally wish we could work together in this.
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