How can this be explained to people

I was browsing forums and there is people on there who are convincing others that everyone who is for anti-psychiatry are in fact paranoid schizophrenics with delusions of persecution. They say everything that happens in psychiatry is good and that people who are for anti-psychiatry are ill and delusional and need their medication. This is being widely spread and misleades everyone into thinking that if someone doesn't agree with psychiatry that they are mentally ill and it's part of their illness. Idiots like these on forums are probably quacks themselves or people who are determined for the truth not to come out and quickly labels people schizophrenics. Will people ever learn? I bet 90% of these people have no idea what a psychiatric hospital stay is like.

If you are going to make accusations of that kind, shouldn't you post links so that others can engage in the debate.

Hey Hurricane,

It is frustrating that the lay public categorizes a whole class of beliefs, claims and opinions as "anti-psych" and dismises them en bloc, but the people who identify themselves as "anti-psych" and talk about "anti-psych" are only encouraging this. Categories and labels breed sloppy thinking and keep banalities, platitudes and rhetoric in circulation. What I find useful at a practical level is to try show people that these categories and labels are vacuous and the presupposition that critics of the mental health care system and mainstream psychiatry are a discrete and homogenous group is confused. Once the categories and labels have been put to rest then maybe you can have a conversation with someone about some of the problems in mental health.

As for what you wrote about people not understanding what it's like to be hospitalized, that's really tough because, as far as I can tell, it's not that people are ignorant of the facts: that people are locked in an institution that operates with a coercive token economy where basic privliges like vistors, clothing, and access to communicative devices have to be earned by good behaviour and that people are routinely forced to take medications. It's that at some level the person is ignorant of what it's like to be that someone in a psychiatric hospital. It's empathetic ignorance which is much harder to deal with. It's hard to get someone to expend the cognitive resources to imagine what it would be like to be arrested, detained, forcibly drugged and have the idea that something's wrong with you inculcated through consistent dehumanization. To get someone to put a lot of effort into thinking about that is tough especially when the pay off is to understand a very small, very uninfluential political movement and when what you're actually understanding is something really sad. I don't have the answers for how you're supposed to get people think about this stuff, let alone care. The fact that most people don't give a sh*t about other people is a problem for most social and political movements ( ).

Take care.

This is definitely a very difficult thing. I know a lot of times people here have heard me talk about the disabling power of receiving a mental health diagnosis. People don't realize that they deserve better than this. They have been told and beaten down by the system that they believe there is no other choice. What I have learned is that these changes don't happen quickly. Baby steps need to be taken, and hope needs to be inspired. A lot of people aren't ready to hear an anti-psych perspective yet. It needs to happen very slowly.

It wasn't exactly a debate - just a few people commenting about people who don't agree with psychiatry are probably schizophrenics which is not true in the slightest, it's a label given to anyone who opposes psychiatry and some made up symptoms to make it look like they are "paranoid" and not of a sound mind - just because they don't agree so docs don't respond too well to being questioned of their intentions and they believe anything they do to a patient is for their own health and safety which is again wrong.

I don't think people outside of psychiatry really knows what goes on, on a day to day basis. I really don't know how they are educated about this but they seem to share the opinion that someone has a mental illness of a random doctors opinion and they need medicating or hospitalization to stay "well". Even if it is slowly people need to know what does on.

Cheze2 wrote:I know a lot of times people here have heard me talk about the disabling power of receiving a mental health diagnosis. People don't realize that they deserve better than this. They have been told and beaten down by the system that they believe there is no other choice.

You may find this page interesting,

As part of its I GOT BETTER campaign to challenge hopelessness in mental health care, MindFreedom International conducted a two-part Hope in Mental Health Care Survey from June to October of this year. The survey was designed to gather answers to these three questions:

1. How prevalent are messages of hopelessness in mental health care?
2. What are the sources and contents of these messages?
3. What is the veracity of these messages? In other words, do hopeless prognoses and statements about recovery, medication use, etc. generally prove true or false?

Well over 1000 individuals participated in the survey, contributing their experience, wisdom, and opinions to a growing body of knowledge about recovery from mental and emotional distress. In this and forthcoming blogs, we’ll be sharing the major findings that emerged from our analysis of the survey data.

http://www.madinamerica.com/2012/12/messages-of-hopelessness/

Well, most of us are 'schizophrenic', but I have a better word for it. Human. Breaching this humanity gives you far too much insight at once, and a lot of it seems like rambling conspiracy theory to the uninitiated, though it is simply a result of a lifetime of research and experience converging.

It boils down to two perspectives: Either you try to take the easy way out (and destroy parts of yourself in the process), or you have a vulgar display of power (and destroy parts of yourself in the process). The people who try to take the easy way out are (mostly) in favor of psychiatry, while those who misuse their gifts or infer that the system they live in is ultimately malevolent are generally against psychiatry. There are some genuine injustices within the psychiatric system, but that is usually how it goes. Those who have no experience with psychiatry tend to support it, as it completely saturates 'First World' countries. Even with all the negative aspects of it, that is what everyone turns to because they literally don't know any better. Unfortunately, many touched by psychiatry will never know 'nirvana'.

People subconsciously follow common conception, even if they try their hardest not to (mostly for fear of social rejection) until they reach the edge of sanity. It's what you choose to do with your knowledge once you get there that is important. Psychiatry is mostly acting as a buffer to prevent societal breakdown and total chaos (it will not dissolve, no matter the effort), but if you give evil nothing to oppose, then you can step out of it's way.

The conditions of a hospital stay are, again, subject to perspective. The voluntary patients tend to have no problem with it, while those who are detained tend to regard it as one of the worst experiences you can have.

There is a big difference between paranoia and a healthy distrust. When you have horrible experiences with something, you've earned the right to be paranoid about it, but people don't listen to anything that sounds hateful (even if it isn't).

t wasn't exactly a debate - just a few people commenting about people who don't agree with psychiatry are probably schizophrenics which is not true in the slightest, it's a label given to anyone who opposes psychiatry and some made up symptoms to make it look like they are "paranoid" and not of a sound mind - just because they don't agree so docs don't respond too well to being questioned of their intentions and they believe anything they do to a patient is for their own health and safety which is again wrong.

What i meant is that i would like to see those posts before engaging with you on your topic. Though i realise that you may not give a hoot about that. BUt i think its fair that if you are going to make accusations that you should provide evidence. For my part, i would want to see exactly what they said.

And then i'd probably be more inclined to engage with them directly.

The debate is not what they've said so much as the general debate between anti-psychiartry and its dissent.

fiftysix wrote:

t wasn't exactly a debate - just a few people commenting about people who don't agree with psychiatry are probably schizophrenics which is not true in the slightest, it's a label given to anyone who opposes psychiatry and some made up symptoms to make it look like they are "paranoid" and not of a sound mind - just because they don't agree so docs don't respond too well to being questioned of their intentions and they believe anything they do to a patient is for their own health and safety which is again wrong.

What i meant is that i would like to see those posts before engaging with you on your topic. Though i realise that you may not give a hoot about that. BUt i think its fair that if you are going to make accusations that you should provide evidence. For my part, i would want to see exactly what they said.

And then i'd probably be more inclined to engage with them directly.

The debate is not what they've said so much as the general debate between anti-psychiartry and its dissent.

I will look for links (i've been to quite a few forums recently) , but it's generally on any kind of psychiatry/recovering from mental illness or scientific debate forums. I think it will be a waste of your time to engage with them as I know most of these people just think someone is delusional or a schizophrenic denying their illness or whatever excuses they will use. That's why it's good to have a anti psych forum here. I'm sure theres plently of debates about psychiatry and stuff like that it's general comments i've seen around that have been growing in numbers.

-- Mon Apr 29, 2013 4:06 pm --

Chrysaor686 wrote:Well, most of us are 'schizophrenic', but I have a better word for it. Human. Breaching this humanity gives you far too much insight at once, and a lot of it seems like rambling conspiracy theory to the uninitiated, though it is simply a result of a lifetime of research and experience converging.

It boils down to two perspectives: Either you try to take the easy way out (and destroy parts of yourself in the process), or you have a vulgar display of power (and destroy parts of yourself in the process). The people who try to take the easy way out are (mostly) in favor of psychiatry, while those who misuse their gifts or infer that the system they live in is ultimately malevolent are generally against psychiatry. There are some genuine injustices within the psychiatric system, but that is usually how it goes. Those who have no experience with psychiatry tend to support it, as it completely saturates 'First World' countries. Even with all the negative aspects of it, that is what everyone turns to because they literally don't know any better. Unfortunately, many touched by psychiatry will never know 'nirvana'.

People subconsciously follow common conception, even if they try their hardest not to (mostly for fear of social rejection) until they reach the edge of sanity. It's what you choose to do with your knowledge once you get there that is important. Psychiatry is mostly acting as a buffer to prevent societal breakdown and total chaos (it will not dissolve, no matter the effort), but if you give evil nothing to oppose, then you can step out of it's way.

The conditions of a hospital stay are, again, subject to perspective. The voluntary patients tend to have no problem with it, while those who are detained tend to regard it as one of the worst experiences you can have.

There is a big difference between paranoia and a healthy distrust. When you have horrible experiences with something, you've earned the right to be paranoid about it, but people don't listen to anything that sounds hateful (even if it isn't).

Exactly, I just can't understand why anyone would want to be in a psychiatric ward - it's mostly the ones who want to be there that don't get accepted anyways and the ones who protest and don't comply are usually the "sectionable" ones because apparently they lack insight when in fact their probably very intelligent people who are victims of the quack doctors and labelled as a schizophrenic or whatever because they know what goes on behind closed doors. Voluntary patients? Detained patients are desperately trying to escape this atrocity knowing that the others can walk out and leave whenever they want. Whatever people may think going into an insitution will not help it will drive you insane and who says they will stay voluntary? They may be sectioned after two days and will live to regret that decision to come willingly. They'll label anyone paranoid when half of the so called delusions are absolutely true.

Those who know don't talk, and those who talk don't know, as truth is treason in the empire of lies. Our environment is so divisive that any attempt to spread your truth alone is met with contempt and condescension (even hatred), but if psychiatry let a single conspiracy slip through, society as we know it would crumble. They cannot afford to have people endanger society or others around them, even if they have to chemically lobotomize people to do so.

Thankfully, most forms of population control only apply to the selfish. This is why persecutory ideas can be labeled as delusional; if 'the government' is slowly killing you, or subtly controlling your mind, or what have you, it is almost always your own fault, to some degree. Retain a state of 'mania' through selflessness and connections of knowledge and you can readily and easily detect any sort of danger or threat to your well-being through sublime awareness.

If you are sectioned, and you prove yourself to be collected, calm, and non-threatening, you will be let go. Usually. They just need proof that you can handle yourself civilly given your heightened mental and physical state, even in the face of unjust imprisonment.