28 year old untreated schizophrenic stabs mother 77 times

Guest wrote: And I hate to say it, but have you ever seen a murderer with normal behavior?

Yep, martin bryant shot dead 35 people in port arthur tasmania. he under went 4 psychiatric examinations and was declared legally sane and fit to stand trial.

every sane person should be thrown in jail as they may murder in the future just like every sz should be drugged as they may be a danger to themselves or others.

now

please provide evidence of any standardised lab test that is used to detect chemical imbalances for any mental illness? the american psychiatric association says no such lab test exists.

please provide evidence of any medical monitoring system that demonstrates when a chemical imbalance has been corrected?

please provide evidence that psychiatric drugs do not increase the risk of suicide and violence?

and please provide evidence of any peer reviewed study that shows conclusive proof of a known cause for a single mental illness?

and i'll prove your wrong!

Guest wrote:Secondly I'd like to add that the brain is a very complex organ in the human body. You can almost compare it to that of a computer. You ever seen computers run programs and go whacky because of a bad code?

so you haven't heard of John Searle?

"John Searle is very well known for his development of a thought experiment, called the "Chinese room" argument. He set out to prove that no computer could ever "think" in the same way humans do. His main premise is that computers can not have an "understanding" of events and processes.

John Searle was awarded the Jean Nicod Prize in 2000

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Searle

Is the Brain a Digital Computer?

http://www.ecs.soton.ac.uk/~harnad/Pape ... .comp.html

and get off your high horse, many posters here are psychiatric survivors that have been completely traumatised by psychiatric treatment.

Guest wrote: And even myself . I've experienced this first hand, so if you want to make a debate on how drugs shouldn't be used to aid people with mental illness I suggest you go and get a lesson or two. Ignorance won't get you anywhere.

i was a victim of forced psychiatric drugging against my will.

heres a timeline lesson on for neuroleptics for you.
Preclinical
1883 Phenothiazines developed as synthetic dyes.
1934 USDA develops phenothiazines as insecticide.
1949 Phenothiazines shown to hinder rope-climbing abilities in rats.
1950 Rhone Poulenc synthesizes chlorpromazine, a phenothiazine, for use as an anesthetic.
Clinical history/standard neuroleptics
1954 Chlorpromazine, marketed in the US as Thorazine, found to induce symptoms of Parkinson’s
disease.
1955 Chlorpromazine said to induce symptoms similar to encephalitis lethargica.
1959 First reports of permanent motor dysfunction linked to neuroleptics, later named tardive
dyskinesia.
1960 French physicians describe a potentially fatal toxic reaction to neuroleptics, later named
neuroleptic malignant syndrome.
1962 California Mental Hygiene Department determines that chlorpromazine and other neuroleptics
prolong hospitalization.
1963 Six-week NIMH collaborative study concludes that neuroleptics are safe and effective
“antischizophrenic” drugs.
1964 Neuroleptics found to impair learning in animals and humans.
1965 One-year followup of NIMH collaborative study finds drug-treated patients more likely than
placebo patients to be rehospitalized.
1968 In a drug withdrawal study, the NIMH finds that relapse rates rise in direct relation to dosage.
The higher the dosage that patients are on before withdrawal, the higher the relapse rate.
1972 Tardive dyskinesia is said to resemble Huntington’s disease, or “postencephalitic brain damage”.
1974 Boston researchers report that relapse rates were lower in pre-neuroleptic era, and that drugtreated
patients are more likely to be socially dependent.
1977 A NIMH study that randomizes schizophrenia patients into drug and non-drug arms reports that
only 35% of the non-medicated patients relapsed within a year after discharge, compared to
45% of those treated with medication.
1978 California investigator Maurice Rappaport reports markedly superior three-year outcomes for
patients treated without neuroleptics. Only 27% of the drug-free patients relapsed in the three
years following discharge, compared to 62% of the medicated patients.
1978 Canadian researchers describe drug-induced changes in the brain that make a patient more
vulnerable to relapse, which they dub “neuroleptic induced supersensitive psychosis”.
1978 Neuroleptics found to cause 10% cellular loss in brains of rats.
1979 Prevalence of tardive dyskinesia in drug-treated patients is reported to range from 24% to 56%.
1979 Tardive dyskinesia found to be associated with cognitive impairment.
1979 Loren Mosher, chief of schizophrenia studies at the NIMH, reports superior one-year and twoyear
outcomes for Soteria patients treated without neuroleptics.
1980 NIMH researchers find an increase in “blunted effect” and “emotional withdrawal” in drugtreated
patients who don’t relapse, and that neuroleptics do not improve “social and role
performance” in non-relapsers.
1982 Anticholinergic medications used to treat Parkinsonian symptoms induced by neuroleptics
reported to cause cognitive impairment.
1985 Drug-induced akathisia is linked to suicide.
1985 Case reports link drug-induced akathisia to violent homicides.
1987 Tardive dyskinesia is linked to worsening of negative symptoms, gait difficulties, speech
impairment, psychosocial deterioration, and memory deficits. They conclude it may be both a
“motor and dementing disorder”.
1992 World Health Organization reports that schizophrenia outcomes are much superior in poor
countries, where only 16% of patients are kept continuously on neuroleptics. TheWHOconcludes
that living in a developed nation is a “strong predictor” that a patient will never fully recover.
1992 Researchers acknowledge that neuroleptics cause a recognizable pathology, which they name
neuroleptic induced deficit syndrome. In addition to Parkinson’s, akathisia, blunted emotions
and tardive dyskinesia, patients treated with neuroleptics suffer from an increased incidence
of blindness, fatal blood clots, arrhythmia, heat stroke, swollen breasts, leaking breasts,
impotence, obesity, sexual dysfunction, blood disorders, skin rashes, seizures, and early
death.
1994 Neuroleptics found to cause an increase in the volume of the caudate region in the brain.
1994 Harvard investigators report that schizophrenia outcomes in the US appear to have worsened
over past 20 years, and are now no better than in first decades of 20th century.
1995 “Real world” relapse rates for schizophrenia patients treated with neuroleptics said to be
above 80% in the two years following hospital discharge, which is much higher than in
pre-neuroleptic era.
1995 “Quality of life” in drug-treated patients reported to be “very poor”.
1998 MRI studies show that neuroleptics cause hypertrophy of the caudate, putamen and thalamus,
with the increase “associated with greater severity of both negative and positive symptoms”.
1998 Neuroleptic use is found to be associated with atrophy of cerebral cortex.
1998 Harvard researchers conclude that “oxidative stress” may be the process by which
neuroleptics cause neuronal damage in the brain.
1998 Treatment with two or more neuroleptics is found to increase risk of early death.
2000 Neuroleptics linked to fatal blood clots.
2003 Atypicals linked to an increased risk of obesity, hyperglycemia, diabetes, and pancreatitis.

Anonymous wrote:

Guest wrote: And I hate to say it, but have you ever seen a murderer with normal behavior?

Yep, martin bryant shot dead 35 people in port arthur tasmania. he under went 4 psychiatric examinations and was declared legally sane and fit to stand trial.

every sane person should be thrown in jail as they may murder in the future just like every sz should be drugged as they may be a danger to themselves or others.

now

please provide evidence of any standardised lab test that is used to detect chemical imbalances for any mental illness? the american psychiatric association says no such lab test exists.

please provide evidence of any medical monitoring system that demonstrates when a chemical imbalance has been corrected?

please provide evidence that psychiatric drugs do not increase the risk of suicide and violence?

and please provide evidence of any peer reviewed study that shows conclusive proof of a known cause for a single mental illness?

and i'll prove your wrong!

Being declared insane and having psychological issues are 2 different things my friend. I have Anxiety disorder, does that make me insane?? no it doesn't. Certain tests can declare someone insane, but just because someone is sane doesn't mean they can't have a mental disorder. Insanity is when you've COMPLETELY lost your mind and can't comprehend reason or right from wrong. My god get some facts straight.

Anonymous wrote:

Guest wrote:Secondly I'd like to add that the brain is a very complex organ in the human body. You can almost compare it to that of a computer. You ever seen computers run programs and go whacky because of a bad code?

so you haven't heard of John Searle?

"John Searle is very well known for his development of a thought experiment, called the "Chinese room" argument. He set out to prove that no computer could ever "think" in the same way humans do. His main premise is that computers can not have an "understanding" of events and processes.

John Searle was awarded the Jean Nicod Prize in 2000

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Searle

Is the Brain a Digital Computer?

http://www.ecs.soton.ac.uk/~harnad/Pape ... .comp.html

and get off your high horse, many posters here are psychiatric survivors that have been completely traumatised by psychiatric treatment.

Wow if you read I was simply making an analogy of the mind malfuctioning. I in no way meant that Computers and the Human brain are the same thing... wow...

Anonymous wrote:

Guest wrote: And even myself . I've experienced this first hand, so if you want to make a debate on how drugs shouldn't be used to aid people with mental illness I suggest you go and get a lesson or two. Ignorance won't get you anywhere.

i was a victim of forced psychiatric drugging against my will.

heres a timeline lesson on for neuroleptics for you.
Preclinical
1883 Phenothiazines developed as synthetic dyes.
1934 USDA develops phenothiazines as insecticide.
1949 Phenothiazines shown to hinder rope-climbing abilities in rats.
1950 Rhone Poulenc synthesizes chlorpromazine, a phenothiazine, for use as an anesthetic.
Clinical history/standard neuroleptics
1954 Chlorpromazine, marketed in the US as Thorazine, found to induce symptoms of Parkinson’s
disease.
1955 Chlorpromazine said to induce symptoms similar to encephalitis lethargica.
1959 First reports of permanent motor dysfunction linked to neuroleptics, later named tardive
dyskinesia.
1960 French physicians describe a potentially fatal toxic reaction to neuroleptics, later named
neuroleptic malignant syndrome.
1962 California Mental Hygiene Department determines that chlorpromazine and other neuroleptics
prolong hospitalization.
1963 Six-week NIMH collaborative study concludes that neuroleptics are safe and effective
“antischizophrenic” drugs.
1964 Neuroleptics found to impair learning in animals and humans.
1965 One-year followup of NIMH collaborative study finds drug-treated patients more likely than
placebo patients to be rehospitalized.
1968 In a drug withdrawal study, the NIMH finds that relapse rates rise in direct relation to dosage.
The higher the dosage that patients are on before withdrawal, the higher the relapse rate.
1972 Tardive dyskinesia is said to resemble Huntington’s disease, or “postencephalitic brain damage”.
1974 Boston researchers report that relapse rates were lower in pre-neuroleptic era, and that drugtreated
patients are more likely to be socially dependent.
1977 A NIMH study that randomizes schizophrenia patients into drug and non-drug arms reports that
only 35% of the non-medicated patients relapsed within a year after discharge, compared to
45% of those treated with medication.
1978 California investigator Maurice Rappaport reports markedly superior three-year outcomes for
patients treated without neuroleptics. Only 27% of the drug-free patients relapsed in the three
years following discharge, compared to 62% of the medicated patients.
1978 Canadian researchers describe drug-induced changes in the brain that make a patient more
vulnerable to relapse, which they dub “neuroleptic induced supersensitive psychosis”.
1978 Neuroleptics found to cause 10% cellular loss in brains of rats.
1979 Prevalence of tardive dyskinesia in drug-treated patients is reported to range from 24% to 56%.
1979 Tardive dyskinesia found to be associated with cognitive impairment.
1979 Loren Mosher, chief of schizophrenia studies at the NIMH, reports superior one-year and twoyear
outcomes for Soteria patients treated without neuroleptics.
1980 NIMH researchers find an increase in “blunted effect” and “emotional withdrawal” in drugtreated
patients who don’t relapse, and that neuroleptics do not improve “social and role
performance” in non-relapsers.
1982 Anticholinergic medications used to treat Parkinsonian symptoms induced by neuroleptics
reported to cause cognitive impairment.
1985 Drug-induced akathisia is linked to suicide.
1985 Case reports link drug-induced akathisia to violent homicides.
1987 Tardive dyskinesia is linked to worsening of negative symptoms, gait difficulties, speech
impairment, psychosocial deterioration, and memory deficits. They conclude it may be both a
“motor and dementing disorder”.
1992 World Health Organization reports that schizophrenia outcomes are much superior in poor
countries, where only 16% of patients are kept continuously on neuroleptics. TheWHOconcludes
that living in a developed nation is a “strong predictor” that a patient will never fully recover.
1992 Researchers acknowledge that neuroleptics cause a recognizable pathology, which they name
neuroleptic induced deficit syndrome. In addition to Parkinson’s, akathisia, blunted emotions
and tardive dyskinesia, patients treated with neuroleptics suffer from an increased incidence
of blindness, fatal blood clots, arrhythmia, heat stroke, swollen breasts, leaking breasts,
impotence, obesity, sexual dysfunction, blood disorders, skin rashes, seizures, and early
death.
1994 Neuroleptics found to cause an increase in the volume of the caudate region in the brain.
1994 Harvard investigators report that schizophrenia outcomes in the US appear to have worsened
over past 20 years, and are now no better than in first decades of 20th century.
1995 “Real world” relapse rates for schizophrenia patients treated with neuroleptics said to be
above 80% in the two years following hospital discharge, which is much higher than in
pre-neuroleptic era.
1995 “Quality of life” in drug-treated patients reported to be “very poor”.
1998 MRI studies show that neuroleptics cause hypertrophy of the caudate, putamen and thalamus,
with the increase “associated with greater severity of both negative and positive symptoms”.
1998 Neuroleptic use is found to be associated with atrophy of cerebral cortex.
1998 Harvard researchers conclude that “oxidative stress” may be the process by which
neuroleptics cause neuronal damage in the brain.
1998 Treatment with two or more neuroleptics is found to increase risk of early death.
2000 Neuroleptics linked to fatal blood clots.
2003 Atypicals linked to an increased risk of obesity, hyperglycemia, diabetes, and pancreatitis.

I'm sorry to hear about your situation. My brother too was forced to take meds before they even questioned him about his problems. And because he was over 21 we couldn't get much out of the Doctors. Luckily we eventually got him out of there and found him a great doctor, and he's doing so much better now.

I understand that medication does have a negative side to it, but there is a plus side as well. And always focusing on the negative.. well.. isn't always a great solution. There are helpful methods out there, unfortunately they aren't always easy to find. And sadly there are some very poor doctors out there that don't care about the well being of their patients. But that's because those doctors didn't go into medicine to help people, they went into it to simply make money.

eight out of the thirteen school shootings in the US were carried out by students that were taking psychiatric drugs at the time of the shootings.

Doesn't mean they neccessarily needed to be taking them. Because they're taking prescribed medication, it's reported by the media that nutters shoot people. It's reported by anti-psych supporters that meds cause people to become violent. It's reported by yet more people that over prescribing drugs to people who really truthfully don't need them causes the problem.

Psychiatrists have to stop being so damn quick to diagnose and prescribe. People are people. We're all screw-ups in one way or another; being told you suffer from blah syndrome and handed pills just because you feel the need to validate your feelings is going to screw you up even more. And, sadly, lots of other people's lives too.

drugs are not the enemy here, my sweets. misdiagnosis and mis-prescription of drugs are what we need to be looking at.

dare i say it, you would be an idiot not to take available drugs to your advantage if you needed them and they could potentially rid you of disease. i dont even understand why there needs to be an argument regarding this.

psychiatric diseases are the inventions of greedy disease mongering psychophramacologists and social ideololgists.

psychiatric drugs cause increase's in violence.