Eugenics?>evolution. and are you just anti-westerrn ?

do you feel the same way about antipsychiatry? are they all assholes and misinformation activists and going around telling lies too? you're just in a world that lives on lies and your world is a lie that's why you get hysterical about anyone trying to find the actual truth above what we are all told is true and what we are forced to do as a society with very crude angle on its self manufactured idea of ethics based on convenient hypotheticals.

I think all I've done is rock the boat for you and poke holes in your dreamy comfort zone that is provided to everyone in the agreement that you won't rise against the system, and society has a safty-net to call anyone who seeks truth to be called a conspiracy theorist and made powerless or made out to be deluded... maybe the truth isn't comfortable to the sheep of society, coz then who are we going to direct our anger at about being lied to so often it becomes ingrained in everyone's psyche, you're just reactive and direct your anger at me and call me an asshole when I'm not acting like one at all.

you missed the point from the graphs of all the main infectious diseases that death rates were declined substantially, our methods of treating infected people had improved also, but the doctors and scientist all push the fear factor like is ingrained in you to tell us we might have another outbreak and more deaths and avoiding the plague like in the old days when we didn;t know how to look after ourselves, its not scientific or plausible.

would you be so kind to state in a sentence or two what you think my actual delusion is? I asked the same thing of a psychiatrist and the medical review board but I've never been given an answer, that was about seeing spiritual implications in psychosis they see it as delusion I guess oor I'm deluded to deny being schisophrenic but instead aim to get good at looking after my sleeping patterns and stress levels, that is a delusion and shows I lack insight too when in fact it is the best insight there is? I never claimed that aliens were going to move the NWO to a new level, I'm quite clear about that I don;t know who is in the hot seat but I know they would be the filthy rich and influential the kind that sit on and cash in on things like pharmacy and immunisations and dictate the "truth" to the world and mold it how they like, rockefeller is one of the culprits and his family was into eugenics and social engineering, certainly not an ET but if we did get visited I hope they pull us out of the downward spiral and save us, but you think we are all right as we are and is our society filled with empowered individuals [except for psychotics who drugged beyond having personal power] youu must think the powers that be are exerting virtuous control over humanity and over the common folk knowledge and beliefs cherry picked to be misleading everyone.

I'm not a sheep because I don;t respect the education of doctors like everyone is supposed to and nearly everyone actually does and am cautious about the media that dictates the herd mentality, they are full of flaws but you'd be the type to shrug off the indiscrepancies and believe every word that comes out of their mouth, so am I deluded for not believing a word a pharmaceutically educated doctor says about the world and believe in their pseudoscientific garbage, especially psychiatrists they are the ones who are deluded and rewarded to feed the masses disinformation about mental health as a marketing ploy for pharmacy companies.

so called science of conventional medicine is renowned for cherry picking data to get past the FDA and market pharmaceuticals....all they can say about vaccines is that anti-vaccination crew are cherry picking death rates over incidence of infectious disease still the death rates were of no concern by the time vaccines came into the question, they lie to us by using fear tactics and theory that we are suppressing epidemics with vaccines like the old days when we didn;t have the wisdom to look after the ill...pro vaccines use the same method yet they are more challenged from official statistics and incidence rates can't be measured as easily or convincingly because of bias of the doctors making diagnosis of vaccinated illness and yeah doctors are wrong all too often.....

psychiatry cherry picks and ignores alternative treatments for better models of treatment for the mentally ill...like soteria house by loren mosher, open dialogue of finland, diabasis of John weir perry that used psychotherapy to help around 85percent of psychotics [cherry picking intelligent studies that will better understand treatments of mental illness, not pharmaceutically driven research like is the consensus norm and all the professionals and Asto pay any attention to because the drug industry market it to put it in their face, not enough money in alternative methods and better science]...pretty impressive recovery rates yet the conventional government and pharma forces ignore it shrug it off and stand by pseudo-scientific claims that psychotherapy for psychotics is damaging or they need pharmaceutical to be able to go through therapy [drugs make the opportunity for therapy basically zero as it takes away self-mastery from the attitude of person in crisis], quality of psychotherapy has been questioned in one study I can;t find right now and yes i can see it would be damaging when performed by narrow minded fools trying to convince the patient that they have a mental illness and probably need drugs like talking to a brick wall as is the case with all medical professionals caught up in and promoting as truth the pseudo-theories of mental illness, they have extreemely poor judgement and insight yet anyone who has better insight and rationalle of crisis and logic will be deemed to have no insight and poor judgment so they can be forced with the treatments.... I guess Asto would be of the opinion that is politically correct and comfort in succumbing to the powers of psychiatrists to dictate to them all the nitty gritty of psych diagnosis's and drugs, including how useless psychotherapy is even though I cherry picked an example which proves the theory wrong....like any sector they see what they want to see, and use this anomaly against anyone who wants to know the truth. meaning Asto's and his type use accusations that is actually the same both sides of the arguement but more typical or it to be used against those seeking truth from within the lie, its a hypocrisy at its best but I guess you need a little more objectivity to realise this.



Being supportive and humain in treatment see's psychosis naturally resolves itself over time and was proven with Quaker movement in the 1800's...westerners don;t want psychotics to recover without pharmaceuticals so they treat them as soon as possible and brainwash them with psycho-education to convince them they need drugs for the rest of their lives...its actually an outrage...there is nothing scientific about psychiatry, they don;t test control group and exit those who are deemed to have placebo response from studies, that is cherry picking at its best.

There is no thorough investigation of things like psychosis, as investigation and better understanding will make pharmacy industry useless or less important like soteria house left for most acute phases and for short periods of time..pharma wants them all to use the drugs indefinitely so the science of cherry picking and ignorance comes in...what about the truth, even if a mentally deranged person knows the truth to their own dilemma better then a quack they are discriminated against and not given any power to participate in their treatment for the best results and this environment actually fuels psychotic behaviour.

Professionals and the way they are taught have such little understanding of mental illness, they don;t see past the effects of the drugs on stereotypical behavior and cognitive traits since everyone they come across who has experienced psychosis is heavily drugged...why not cherry pick a little and study those that have recovered without drugs, this is a minority...they would claim that they had the incorrect diagnosis from the beginning yet wont even go though the ethical concerns of incorrect diagnosis and determination of prognosis, they are plain wrong...so when are the powers that be gonna get their facts right about mental illness or are we all gonna be exposed to their dangerous delusions and how they take over and dominate the life of the mentally ill with inhumain treatment and brainwashing, making people create self-fulfilling prophecy to their demise as someone with a pathological illness, no illness can be proven and everything is subjective to the bias interpretation of "professionals" that label everything that goes against the political order and media fed consensus as a delusion.

Razael wrote:do you feel the same way about antipsychiatry?

Yes, I assume that most involved in this movement today are deluded. It's not an in-science movement that tries to discuss and prove on a scientific and rational basis, but on a "they want us [...]" paranoia that is not helpful at all; neither to psychiatry nor to patients that need help.

Razael wrote:you're just in a world that lives on lies and your world is a lie that's why you get hysterical about anyone trying to find the actual truth above what we are all told is true and what we are forced to do as a society with very crude angle on its self manufactured idea of ethics based on convenient hypotheticals.

Why do you think I'm hysterical? I am perfectly calm. You see, I don't go around and tell that "everything is a lie" because, as I said, the fat end boss to slay doesn't exist as it's the same infantile and naive idea like "god"; an omnipotent entity that "does something" and renders your powerless.
It's childish and I am beyond this. I look at facts (yeye, all lies, all made-up, etc.) and see the benefit of science in general, not just in medicine. You can argue all you want, you can't argue against success and it's a shame that people like you attack the very basis of your existence because of ignorance. Statistically you could have died 10 years ago on some nasty disease as happening in other parts of this planet where people have no clean drinking water and no modern medicine to treat illnesses. You take this all as granted and get cocky enough to $#%^ on it all.
Feel free, it's your right to do so, but don't expect me or anyone to applaud to such a retarded behavior.

You're still unable to bring order into your thoughts and are randomly babbling around like "a society with very crude angle on its self manufactured idea of ethics based on convenient hypotheticals".

Apply that sentence to anti-psychiatry, just do it.

Razael wrote:I think all I've done is rock the boat for you and poke holes in your dreamy comfort zone that is provided to everyone in the agreement that you won't rise against the system, and society has a safty-net to call anyone who seeks truth to be called a conspiracy theorist and made powerless or made out to be deluded...

Hahahahah
You're the great warrior fighting against injustice and you totally put me in my place !!1111.

Cmon, stop #######4 yourself. A random guy on the internet can't take you serious and I don't even have any considerable power in this world. Do you really think that anyone with real power is going to be afraid of you or any of your ridiculous whiny esoteric movement? No, they won't. Because you are no threat. Because you are a bunch of deluded folks that go around and spread stupid conspiracy theories.

If you want to change something, start to bring order into your thoughts and stop that pseudo-underdog attitude. It's ridiculous as they are way more of you than you think.

Razael wrote:maybe the truth isn't comfortable to the sheep of society, coz then who are we going to direct our anger at about being lied to so often it becomes ingrained in everyone's psyche, you're just reactive and direct your anger at me and call me an asshole when I'm not acting like one at all.

I totally agree with you, but you are no less sheep than other people that dwell on their ignorance.
I am not reactive, I am just stating that you are deluded because you mix up several aspects that have no direct relation, charge them up emotionally and go around telling people that "big government wants your soul".
I don't say you are totally wrong with everything you say. I just say that you are unable to bring order into it and thus can't differentiate between real connections and just imagined connections that come out of a certain emotional instability and inability to rationalize.
The fact that you consider me as "one of them" tells it all, don't you think?

Razael wrote:you missed the point from the graphs of all the main infectious diseases that death rates were declined substantially, our methods of treating infected people had improved also, but the doctors and scientist all push the fear factor like is ingrained in you to tell us we might have another outbreak and more deaths and avoiding the plague like in the old days when we didn;t know how to look after ourselves, its not scientific or plausible.

Again, you mix up.
It's a fact that there were severe epidemics in the past like pestilence or, more recent, the spanish flu that caused a lot of people to die. These are serious topics that needs to be addressed.
Those people back then would have been glad to have todays medicine as it would have caused a lot less deaths.
That's one thing.

The other thing is people that spread fear around through media and this is a totally different topic, but you mix them up wildly and form a big conspiracy theory out of it. You also have to admit that you and every esoteric movement out there, including anti-psychiatry, is doing exactly the same thing: spreading Fear and Uncertainty and Doubt. For what benefit?

And please, don't tell me you want to encourage critically thinking and inform people about these topics. You work with paranoia, you work with fear, you work with doubt and confusion.. These are your methods to "spread the word".
There is no serious debate and discussion going on with you people just because you lack any requirement needed in order to have a serious debate, starting with the ability to think rationally.

Razael wrote:would you be so kind to state in a sentence or two what you think my actual delusion is? I asked the same thing of a psychiatrist and the medical review board but I've never been given an answer, that was about seeing spiritual implications in psychosis they see it as delusion I guess oor I'm deluded to deny being schisophrenic but instead aim to get good at looking after my sleeping patterns and stress levels, that is a delusion and shows I lack insight too when in fact it is the best insight there is?

I answer you this. Because "spirits" don't exist. Spirituality is another word for dwelling in metaphysics, dwelling in unmeasurable, unprovable and thus (for a scientific mind) non-existing realms. It's the same to claim that little gnomes are inside your head that do stuff and now you go to your doctor and tell him to take you seriously and consider the possibility of a gnome-influenced implications to psychosis. He would laugh his ass off and for a good reason.
That's why doctors stick to stuff that are actually provable and unfortunately there are a lot people with heavy delusions (my own mother belongs to those) and you're not a singularity here.
It's perfectly rational to assume that you are nuts and if this answer doesn't satisfy you, then stop asking. You won't get another.

Razael wrote:I'm not a sheep because I don;t respect the education of doctors like everyone is supposed to and nearly everyone actually does and am cautious about the media that dictates the herd mentality, they are full of flaws but you'd be the type to shrug off the indiscrepancies and believe every word that comes out of their mouth, so am I deluded for not believing a word a pharmaceutically educated doctor says about the world and believe in their pseudoscientific garbage, especially psychiatrists they are the ones who are deluded and rewarded to feed the masses disinformation about mental health as a marketing ploy for pharmacy companies.

There is a difference between being critical about something and being paranoid about something.
That's what I try to tell you the whole time.
Just because you have the sense that there is something wrong and that media manipulates you (which they certainly do), doesn't mean that your big conspiracy is true.
Be critical about doctors, go for it (many are idiots anyway), but being paranoid or just "against it" is not critical, just infantile and you will never have a reasonable discussion with any psychiatrist when you act like you have no ######6 clue what you are talking about. He will always treat you as the little child you show off here.

It won't help if "psychiatry survivors" acts like there is a perfect reason they were in psychiatry in the first place. Just a matter of fact.

@Razael - first of all, I want to point out that I am glad that you are taking the time to share your view on this forum. I agree with many points that you've made here, and I understand how hard it is to defend them against some who wish to attack them.

Razael wrote:psychiatry cherry picks and ignores alternative treatments for better models of treatment for the mentally ill...

This is true for the vast majority of doctors. However, I've contacted John Breeding and he's an impressive exception. As for the majority, it is unfortunate that alternative approaches are not discussed. Solutions in pill form tend to dominate.

Razael wrote:like any sector they see what they want to see, and use this anomaly against anyone who wants to know the truth.

This is just like "The Life of Pi" - without spoiling the movie, I can safely say that there is often two or more stories to believe and only one absolute truth.

I also agree with your discussion on "objectivity" - which is incredibly hard to do. I am working on it constantly.

Razael wrote:there is nothing scientific about psychiatry, they don;t test control group and exit those who are deemed to have placebo response from studies, that is cherry picking at its best.

There actually is scientific work being done, for example see the studies seeking polymorphisms responsible for genetic causes. I have feeling that genetics has limited influences compared to other factors, but that kind of research is being done scientifically.

Razael wrote:Professionals and the way they are taught have such little understanding of mental illness, they don;t see past the effects of the drugs on stereotypical behavior and cognitive traits since everyone they come across who has experienced psychosis is heavily drugged...

keenie may disagree with you on this (see bipolar forum) since keenie is a researcher on bipolar and has it too. But somethign to think about is that it seems that the mental health community doesn't tend encourage alternative approaches to meds.

Razael wrote:...so when are the powers that be gonna get their facts right about mental illness or are we all gonna be exposed to their dangerous delusions and how they take over and dominate the life of the mentally ill with inhumain treatment and brainwashing, making people create self-fulfilling prophecy to their demise as someone with a pathological illness, no illness can be proven and everything is subjective to the bias interpretation of "professionals" that label everything that goes against the political order and media fed consensus as a delusion.

While I doubt that an "objective" view of mental illness will be reached by the medical community in my lifetime, I would recommend that you take a more carefully measured approach when explaining your views. I got the impression that the above paragraph was a bit more emotional than carefully contemplated. Not that it is necessarily wrong, but it can easily give a bad impression. I should know because I've got a LOT of complaints on this forum for doing similar things. Just don't let people like Asto get to ya. They have a tendency to try to provoke emotional responses so that it is hard for people like you and me to focus on finding the truth.

I think I've offered both critisim and support for various statements that you've made, which is something that I hope to see from others more often. I doubt that anyone on this forum is all right or all wrong.

thanks Ian, I guess because I want to turn the tables and suggest psychiatry is full of delusion makes me sound reckless or something, i think it should be done, there are a lot of hypocritical statements psychiatrists make and they use dangerous delusion about the nature of the mind and natural states and they have overt delusions about the medications, and their judgement in determining judgement of the patient and risk of client isn't always so good or its based on discrimination or hypothetical since they have determined them mentally ill, this isn;t true insight but limited by their text book education and a kind of stigma, the view of prognosis is a delusion since they neglect that a majority of psychotics will recover within weeks better then they were before the psychosis, hypocritically they would see this insight into being a psychotic as a delusion, yet it is their delusion that they act on that makes theirs so dangerous.....they can only hypothesise about brain chemicals being imbalanced that only leaves medication for it as a viable option to recover, they are deluded about recovery from mental illness since they have been taught by drug industry to rely on brain numbing chemicals for life and make drug industries lots of money... chemical imbalance for instance is sloppy science and more of a marketing gimmick...

I don't know how I could present the fact that once in psychiatries clutches it is very difficult to get out and they dominate their patients to succumb to their label and take their drugs like a good patient, its fairly typical but not many have the ability to rationalise their situation from the effects of the drugs to do something about this domination of their spirit and potentials of the mind. yeah spirit Asto lol, you're incredibly ignorant suggesting your theory that spirituality is all about ghosts! rather its about human spirit, or a journey to perfect ourselves as a spiritual being, sure you can probably assure yourself that this is a delusion too from your materialistic world.

Asto suggests too many things about me to go through and point out his error in judgement , just like the errors in judgement a psychiatrist makes from the perspective of the consensus. asto is obviously highly athiest, and may even like to ignore the contradiction to his terms that he so confidently projects to conclude I am deluded. spirituality is about human spirit, looking within and of growth and self-mastery, opening up the consciousness to its full potential and about evolution [sometimes this evolution may have transcendent features and personal strife in development it isn;t always smooth sailing, psychiatrists have an even more dangerous understanding of what it means to an individual and gloss over it accusing a spiritual person of delusion and being psychotic without taking the time to get a better understanding about what life means to an individual, a lot of concepts are developed along the way that a psychiatrist will consider symp0toms of schizopphrenia, this is why I sugggest that spiritual implications to diagnosing schizophrenic should be considered, a lot of healthy tendencies get diagnosed as delusion and lacking insight to being schizophrenic like attitude and methods for preserving the integrity of the mind through say breathwork and meditation or yoga [spiritual practices], yet this opposes the medical model that drugs are the only way to ensure mental health, sorry I can;t be more clear, I do the best I can when on these drugs]...spirituality could be a karmic journey or simply delving into rich layers of the consciousness to understand life and even reincarnation or simply understanding the symbolic meaning of dreams or intrusive thinking, this could come with stress and yeah a psychiatrist is naive or deluded about it too, they simply don;t understand what it means to be spiritual once you start on a path it opens up to a whole new world, for some that could be spirit sensitivity to outside energies and some telepathic phenomena. before you jump at the idea of telepathy being a sign of mental illness understand that our communication exists on many different levels and some that can't be measured and varified, the people who have developed these skills have a good relationship with it and doesn't cause mental illness ....just because spirits which is only a small part of spirituality can;t be measured to prove existence doenst prove they don;t exist....besides spirit in spirituality is about the spirit of ourselves not of a ghost, we all have spirit and a spiritual person is on a path to nourish and grow spiritually.....

I guess asto felt pretty clever with his personal definition of what spirituality really means to define all spiritual people as deluded, from his perspective its actually about tuning the pineal and third eye to be able to perceive spirits, gods or angels that as a race we have lost touch with, how do you tune your perception like this I wonder? there are plenty of cultural beliefs that spirits don;t pass into afterlife and are stuck on earth, some adepts might be able to interact with them? I dunno, its still something I'm not sure about but this is a minority of the spiritual seekers, yeah some are interested in spirits but you can;t define all spiritual seekers to be like that, asto you obviously don;t know any spiritual people or would drive them away, maybe they are all just hippy and new age crew, didn;t you think of that when you concocted your definitions?

I can only speak from a personal perspective, plus my attitude toward it is dismissed by my treatment team that reduce it to being a symptom, I'll never really be able to voice my truth to them, so I use forums to vent if anything.

Not sure what to think of asto, but you sure as hell are a little too sure of yourself an you're a hypocrite for not practicing what you preach and learning more about what you are saying before attacking people with superficial fallacies. so what you have the herd and the government and media and psychiatrists to back you up, but the herd is anything but enlightened to the truth of these matters, as jung states the herd is of a lower plane of consciousness based on more primitive instinct. but yeah I kinda enjoy reading his contradictions but asto you are so ignorant and stubborn I doubt you'd accept that you are wrong about most of the projections you make about me, you're actually a hypocrite if anything, so you name call I can too but its not about me putting a shallow attack on you across I would have better angles to uselessly voice my opinion somewhere once I have processed all the information and not be dismayed by psychiatric services. I wonder how you treat your mum? so do you get angry and call her names if you determine something she said is a delusion? oh she probably dosed up on drugs so she doesn't have the initiative to talk about anything that might strike a nerve with you? are you always this cold about people you consider to be deluded, or you use these terms because you were threatened or disturbed by my topic? I guess the later would explain the situation a lot better.

I'm not paranoid either, you are just like a psychiatrist in reducing and shallowly interpreting what I've said to mean something that indicates illness, it more indicates oppression of you rejecting something you don;;t want to hear to be labeled paranoid and deluded about the concepts I bring up in Anti-Psychiatry.

Oh, I'm not so good at putting quotes up, but Asto said something about treating psychiatry with a little more "paranoia" maybe this is what they need to get it right, to open the doors to other possibility instead of having a few umbrella terms and grouping people with very unique experiences into the one box. like that thread on falsifying psychiatry to determine it to be scientific, yet it is based on subjective observation and diagnostics that evolve to include more and more false positives where a little investigation into the patient could reveal alternatives especially for treatment, but they are too lazy to treat patients with respect and treat them as anything other then an animal or patient... sorry can;t remember what he said or what I thought at the time, but there is too much from the attacks of asto to address it all..

more falsifying being done with psych labels to at least mature the field of "science" so it is more scientific....personally I hardly have any genuine symptoms other then what asto likes to put up that are based on me having a different philosophical or religious perspective, this is not grounds to label someone mentally ill at least by law but it still gets used against people everyday and diagnosis is opinion of the psychiatrist who probably thinks a lot like asto...perhaps there is more we can learn from asto then he realises

Asto I think you'd be more at home moderating on Crazyboards pro-med site, or you already on that place? wouldn't surprise me. pity though there be less people to attack but you'd get praise for doing what you like so much. why not go onto all the antipsych topics and give them a taste of your superiority in rationalising the truth about psychiatry I'm sure others would find you amusing as I have, but I doubt you'll learn anything from it. Maybe you can get out of the typical reduction technique that psychiatrists use to group deviants into one box and accuse them of having stereotypical symptoms according to your beliefs and better use your prowess to individualise your opinions to what they are actually saying in the moment.

REally didn;t intend this to be so long, wan;t even going to respond

and I used to write much better before the antipsychotics screwed with my dopamine levels and working memory, hence not best anymore at holding information I want to say in my mind and presenting it coherently, psychiatrists are deluded about the effects of medications once again and the studies on schizophrenics don;t take into account that a lot of cognitive disturbances are from the drugs and not some hypothetical illness.

Razael wrote: spirituality is about human spirit, looking within and of growth and self-mastery, opening up the consciousness to its full potential and about evolution [sometimes this evolution may have transcendent features and personal strife in development it isn;

I really appreciate your inclusion of spirituality as having an important role in mental illness. One idea you may like is in a book titled "Natural Medicine Guide to Bipolar Disorder, The: New Revised Edition" by Marohn, where a shamanic view is discussed - the basic idea is that other cultures view people with mental disorders as having unique and valuable spiritual healing ability. There is a lot of cool stuff down that road, and I've never heard any of my docs talk about it. One doc you may like to view on youtube is john breeding. He's a cool and legitamate doctor who seems to know what's up.

Razael - don't be too quick to judge us more athiest types - I'm a huge fan of phenomena that science doesn't describe yet, e.g. spirits. However, I can't say if my experiences, though spiritual and even very mystic, involve what some call God. I also have quite a bit of experience with the third eye. There is a lot to cover on the topic of decalcification and regular use. I'd add that I get the feeling that the third eye, when used regularly, helps to regulate sleep via melatonin production. I've got a group of Christian friends out here who're big on metaphysics by the way, so it isn't like anyone has to choose between the two. I generally like people who can discuss experiences, so I like what you have to say Razael.

thanks for the replys

I guess I am hard on atheism because of psychiatrists that are for me the forefront of social control in accordance with atheism. I guess there would be some open minded atheist types that I never really ran into, they certainly didn;t try to control me with drugs for having spiritual beliefs and label me as having an illness because of it.......Maybe there is a term to describe this kind of thing a bit better when it comes to attacking others for their beliefs, I guess I'm a hypocrite for attacking psychiatrists and anyone who uses their methods of reducing someone into an inferior position.

Man, asto is like a rabid bulldog, wonder what he's doing here in anti psychiatry.

Asto wrote:Almost every older ancestor as well as almost every "cousin" of the Homo Sapiens obviously went extinct.

Every extant life form is a cousin descended from an older ancestor, and looking around, the planet is as rich as it has ever been in living currency. Either your 'almost' includes all living non-Homo sapiens life forms, and you are casting a rather all encompassing net with a unusually narrow choice of words, or you are aware of a living human relative closer than chimp, depending on how you define 'cousin'. As such, is it bigfoot or yeti to which you refer?

Asto wrote:It's beyond me how I would ever want to "make a connection" with such a person. Do you?

Yes, it's actually rather obvious and, in fact, your participation in this thread is sufficient evidence of the falsity of your 'argument', both in the general and the particular.

Case closed.

lion2zion wrote:Man, asto is like a rabid bulldog, wonder what he's doing here in anti psychiatry.

I like this description. I spent some time reading Asto's posts and I see kernels of truth and good arguments/genuine criticism, but then it gets crazy because of a strongly emotional writing style. What makes lion2zion's use of the word "rabid" so accurate can be seen in the fact that Asto rarely points out something positive or truthful about his opponent's statements. It is like a disease - or rabid-like.

I have to give it to Asto though, this person seems to care about others. There's also a lot of time and effort in many of his posts - pointed out by kysymys. It is evident that Asto reads a lot of what is posted here on the psychforums.

As for being in the anti-psych forum, it would be nice to have a bulldog to offer critisism and opposing views - just without the "rabid" part.