I think my GP threatened me?

I am not sure if I should be deeply concerned by my doctors conduct today.

Relevant history:

I have been diagnosed with Major Depression, but for various reasons over the years I have refused to take any drugs that have been prescribed to me.
Mostly because I am not in any way a physical threat to myself or others, I don't self harm, I will not kill myself, nor do I have any desire to hurt or kill anyone else.
That's my personal line, and I've never crossed it.

I have only very recently started seeing my current GP as I was unhappy with my old GP, for many reasons. One reason was how my old GP would hand out anti-depressants like they were candy, then not follow up on what he had prescribed. To me that seemed dangerous and careless.

I told my new GP about this the first time I saw her, and she told me "No Dear, I don't think you need anti-depressants, let's try sending you to a psychologist and try methods like CBT and see how that goes"

And I thought great, this doctor is listening to me, maybe I can trust this person.

ANYWAY I did go and see the psychologist, twice now, and I have another appointment in a few days. I've told my mother that I am seeing a psychologist, I've been very open and sensible about it.

End history.


So when my mum told me today that she had called my GP to make an appointment for me as she was "worried" about my behaviour I figured that rather than getting angry at my mother for invading my personal privacy I would just go along, speak to my GP in-front of her, assure her that I was getting help, and maybe it would soothe her mind enough to leave me to do my thing.
Also I probably should have made an appointment to tell my GP about the therapy sessions, so two birds one stone.

I was wrong.

When it was time for my appointment I asked my mother to come in with me, and when the GP asked why I was there I said "because my mother is worried about me, and made this appointment, so here I am ready to assure her, with your help, that she doesn't need to worry so much."
She then asked my mother why she was worried, and my mother went on this big tirade about me and my behaviour.
The doctor asked me if this was true, and I said yes.
Then I reminded her that I was seeing a psychologist as she recommended, so I was "working on it".

Then I lost control of the situation.

All of a sudden the GP was telling me that my kind of depression NEEDS anti-depressants and not just therapy. That obviously the therapy wasn't working, and that she would give me a script today.

She asked my mother what she thought about that, and my mother said she thought it was a good idea.

I interrupted though, was honest with her, and outlined my worries about anti-depressants, and how I would only want to take them as an absolute LAST resort.

She said this WAS the last resort.

I then expressed how I felt like I hadn't given the therapy enough time yet, and that I REALLY REALLY REALLY am not interested in taking SSRIs for MANY reasons, and I explained those reasons.

She said that I wasn't being reasonable, that the drugs are safe.

SO I said that maybe I had some simple to test for underlying medical concern, like low vitamin D levels or something SIMPLE, so I wouldn't want anti-depressants until I had ruled out EVERYTHING else.

She said "no, that is not possible" (she didn't explain why not)

I then said simply that anti-depressants I felt were not the answer, FOR ME, and that I knew I could possibly benefit from eating better and more regular exercise and professional help from therapy.

And then she said a therapist wont help me, as I need someone smarter than me who I can't manipulate and the one she recommended wasn't right.

So I said fine - send me to another. As I'm genuinely trying to make it work.

She said no - that I should just take the anti-depressants as my brain wasn't ready to accept change and I NEED anti-depressants to adjust my serotonin levels so that I would be ready to get help.

I said that wasn't true, that I did want to change, but just not with the help of drugs.

She said then maybe I should go to a psychiatrist to convince me to take anti-depressants.

I said I'd go, but I'd probably not change my mind about taking anti-depressants, but I would speak to them about other treatments if she didn't want to talk about other treatments with me.

And here is where is gets crazy- she asked if I was aware that she had the power to, with my mothers permission, hospitalise me or force me to attend the hospital to be administered drugs, whether I wanted to or not.

She said that she had the law on her side, and under her recommendation I would have to submit to her requests for me to take drugs or I'd be committing an offence in not complying with her prescribed treatment.

...I was shocked, and I know that people can be forceably hospitalised, but why would I be one of those people? I wasn't HURTING anyone. And I'm an adult.

She then continued to say that she didn't WANT to hospitalise me, as there is only one ward in our area, and so I'd be with people who were more severe than I was and I wouldn't like that.

It was so threatening, all because I said I didn't want to take drugs????

I told her I respected her opinion, and I understand that she was the one with the medical degree and the expertise, but I respectfully wanted to try other options.
ALSO doesn't the Hippocratic Oath say "first do no harm"? And I was scared of the harm that anti-depressants could cause me when I felt they weren't necessary.

She said anti-depressant aren't harmful, like ECT. She then started to explain ECT, and I interrupter her, saying how I knew what it was, and that it was still used, and anti-depressants TO ME are only the lesser of two evils. That I don't need ECT or anti-depressants... blah blah blah I made another big argument, ending in how I didn't like her trying to manipulate me by giving inaccurate information.

She just ignored me and said "Anti-depressants are proven to help you. If you don't trust the newer ones then take Zoloft, it's been around for many years. I as a doctor am telling you to take them. Don't you trust me?"

I said no. I then got really overwhelmed and said there are millions of other ways people help themselves, even spirituality.

At this comment she gave me a CRAZY ultimatum - Either I dedicate myself to seeking solace in God, or I take anti-depressants.

She spoke to me about prayer, if I pray (no), if anyone in my family prays (yes), and how when she does two round of whatever-prayer and puts her faith in God it works better than a sleeping tablet.
She told me that as if it was some kind of science.

At this point I just blindly accepted, and said I wanted to pray, and took the holy book she gave me, promising to read it, and that we would talk in 2 days time to see if there was any change, and if there was no change, then she would guide me, spiritually, and if there was still no change, then we would talk about anti-depressants again.

She asked if I thought this was a good idea. I said "yes", she asked my mother if she thought it was a good idea, my mother said "yes" (she is kind of religious).

Then my crazy GP said "give us a smile"
I tried.
Then she said "like you mean it"

And I did.
And left the room and walked straight out without making a follow up appointment with my mother eventually meeting me in the car.

SHE'S ABSOLUTELY INSANE RIGHT???????

She can't actually hospitalise me, can she????
Aren't doctors supposed to NEVER introduce religion????

Can I sue her for misconduct??

If I was a weaker individual she would have manipulated me on so many levels... and for what?
Is she in bed with some pharma company? Is she just bored by depressed patients and looking for quick fixes? Is she just some crazy fundamentalist looking to get into heaven by recruited extra believers?
ALL these options make me sounds paranoid and crazy, but then I remember what happened and can't make any reason of it!!!

I am SO confused, and quite scared that my life isn't quite in my hands any more but could be taken away by a CRAZY person with the support of my stupid mother.

....I'm not nuts. She is. Right???? Oh the irony...

I know I'm not an example on perfect mental health, but I'm pretty damn sure I haven't lost perspective on reality.

This made me feel like I was losing my mind.

What your doctor did was definitely unethical. I don't believe that you can sue her, but you have the choice of either filing a complaint, or finding a new doctor. She can't force you to go into a hospital unless you are in danger of harming yourself or others. I'm sorry that you had to go through such an experience. It definitely taints the trust between doctor and patient.

Yes she sounds really crazy and yes she can force you. I've had doctors lie about things I said and did in order to get the court to commit me to the hospital and to outpatient "treatment". I'd try to find another doctor, and move away from your mom.

Biadss wrote:She said that she had the law on her side, and under her recommendation I would have to submit to her requests for me to take drugs or I'd be committing an offence in not complying with her prescribed treatment.

Members of MindFreedom International use mutual support to protect one another from unwanted coerced psychiatric procedures. Current MindFreedom members may register for the MindFreedom Shield for free. Then if a member with a Shield is threatened with coerced psychiatry, that member can instantly activate a public alert system. http://www.mindfreedom.org/shield


Committing an offence ? Whats the name of this "offence" ?

I would realy realy like to know the name of it.

Thanks for the info and feedback Copy_cat, n0body and Cheze2.

I'm disappointed to report that after seeing my psychologist today, and telling her about my GP, she explained to me that
"I have to agree with your GP; although you are not hurting yourself (e.g. cutting) you are still considered to be harming yourself through your inactivity, and this kind of behaviour can indeed see you being hospitalised, and not necessarily with your permission. This point might not be too far away for you. If you get worse, then it might be too late for the anti-depressants to work... like treating a migraine with paracetamol. So I also recommend that you start taking them now, before you are hospitalised"

Anyway, instead of talking about ME for the session it was simply her telling me to take anti-depressants for an hour, and her arguing the benefits, and me saying like I broken record "No, I don't want to, because... I'd rather try...".

I don't think I am so insane to simply not want to take anti-depressants, and I don't think people have a right to keep threatening me about getting worse and being sent to a ward... how could being doped out of my brain in a sterile room until I resign to acting unlike myself be helpful?

It's paternalism gone mad.

I can't understand why hospitalisation seems inevitable to these professionals when I don't even feel "sick", or "ill", I'm not dangerous, I'm just defecting slightly from social norms.

These threats ironically make me think that if they are "normal" then I don't want to get better.

In answer to your last question in the ost above, where you ask why they are talking about the hosital when you dont feel sick, the answer is because many times patients dont know when they are sick. I will tell you a story of something that happened to me also in a medical setting many years ago, and then explain...I was nine months into a very healthy pregnancy, so healthy that i remained fairly active throughout, ate healthy, didn't even have swollen ankles, everything was very healthy I was lucky and the envy of other moms to be who developed gestational diabetes, or who gained too much weight etc. anyways around the time I was due, I woke up one morning at 5 am, my water had broken and after a hour or so I called the doctor who told me to get to the hospital. I checked into labor and delivery ward, and was admitted to a room,nurse checked me etc. everything was normal. I was having mild contractions and felt fine. But only about an hour later a nurse tole me that I would have to start making more progress in the next few hours by having stronger contractions or else they might have to artificially induce labor with pitocin iv in my arm. I told them i had ben told to avoid pitocin because it causes unnaturally strong contractions. I pointed out that I was already having mild contractions and it was still very early. I didn't understand why they were in such a all fire hurry to induce me. However they stuck by this saying there is some risk of harm to the baby when the water breaks, however I was not having any signs of fetal distress, there was no signs of it. I walked up and down the hospital hallway hoping to hurry up and have contractions but later the nurse tod me she was giving me a deadline of noon to start having stronger contractions and if I didn't they would give me a pitocin drip. I felt intimidated by this r.n. who didn't seem to care how I felt about my valid points for not wanting pitocin, I told her there were no signs of fetal distress and I didn't want the risks associated with pitocin when my pregnancy was so healthy, I wanted some time to let labor develop naturally. She was very authoritarian and said that was that. I tried to walk some more but the contractions weren't strong enough for this nurse so I was forced to have a pitocin iv put in my arm. I still wish icouldhave been allowed time for,labor to develop on its own but the nurses reason was there is some associated risk of complications in a birth when the water breaks before hard contractions are underway. I feel labor would have gone naturally if this nurse had left me alone but I guess there is also a small risk some problem could've happened. She may have seen something that I didn't and she has also been trained to help with hundreds of births. I guess I'm just saying I understand how you would feel, it really bothered me that I was the one carrying the baby and felt I had some say so in how it should go, and the pitocin gave me horrible unnatural contractions that started all of a sudden, there wasn't a natural build up to them like what would've happened naturally. It still sort of bothers me to this day, but mostly I'm thankful my baby was born safely even though the pitocin caused such strong contractions that they then gave me nubain a narcotic pain med which made me out of it for the last couple hours of labor. There is a possibility your mom and doctor could be seeing things in your health and behavior that you may not be seeing, it may be red flags they are seeing that giving them concerns. It's just something to consider, sometimes depression nice it gets on a certain course it can go downhill and they may just Be trying to avert something more serious from happening. Part of her concern may be that she has gone along with your plan of trying just therapy but your mom apparently became concerned about something in you and yourdoctor could have seen a similar situation in the past that went badly and she may be trying to avert this. She must not be one of those doctors who just push pills since she was in agreement with you trying it without medication to begin with. So she doesn't sound like a pill pusher doctor to me. When you told her you wanted to keep trying other things first, do you think at some point if those therapies don't help enough that you would try medication? If I were you I would let her know that you want to make some type of time limited agreement where shewillagree with you just doing therapy, and if in four weeks (for example) she doesn't see improvement THEN you will try medication.this may be enough to reassure her that you will get what you need to be ok either with just therapy hopefully or if not,with medication

John Stuart Mill, "On Liberty", 1859:

The only purpose for which power can be rightly exercised over any member of the community , against his will, is to prevent harm to others.

His own good, either physical or moral, is not sufficient warrant... Each person is the proper guardian of his own health.
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Mabey you should try the damb antidepressants but force and threats of force is not acceptable.

Delamo, I think such a long post deserves a reply...

I appreciate your story, but I don't think that the example you gave can be related to my situation at all really, because you and your baby were in medically-clear physical distress.
You WERE sick.
I meanwhile am in a place of totally subjective mental distress.
I don't know if I'm that sick.

It's not like if I don't do what the doctors think is best then me and my unborn child will die.

I do think your idea about compromise is a sensible one however, I just don't think my GP is exactly sensible.

Oh, and I'm quite sure that I don't ever want to try medication or deserve the threat of hospitalisation.
Why? Because even though my depression can get quite bad it can also be managed, like right now, for whatever reason, I feel like I am slowly emerging from my depressive spin. I am better than I was a week ago. I'm familiar with my depressive cycles, and I know that in another week if I do certain things then I'm likely to feel better than I do this week. Without medication or hospitalisation. I'm scared of the side effects of medication, and I'm scared of losing that familiarity I have with my moods.
Even though medication works for a lot of people there is no hard evidence to say it would have worked for me.
Everyone has a right to simply question if medication is right for them without being threatened.

*shrug* rightly on wrongly that's just where I'm at right now.

If I were you, I would try out the antidepressants because the question is, what do you have to lose? On the other hand, if you refuse taking them, you may have something to lose.
You claimed you gave your reasons to the doctor to why you refuse being prescribed SSRIs..

I would like to know those reasons.
The credibility with this doc seems strange. I guess she was adhered to the belief that pills can change everything. In all honesty though, most depressed people who reach out for treatment do get prescribed for SSRIs but with an averring-schedule of therapy/other treatment.. so what makes your case any different?

This is a truly incredible story. What the hell.

I believe where YOU messed up was in bringing your mother to your doctor appointment. If you are an adult, then you cannot be manipulated by your mother to attend any doctor appointment just because SHE thinks you need to.

The doctor must have picked up on bad vibes coming from your mother and felt that your mother was going to hold her responsible if you suffered any harm due to her taking you off of your medication. When your doctor asked you if everything your mother said were true, you replied YES -- this answer gave the doctor the backing she needed to demand that you go back on meds.

If you admitted to anything that MAY cause yourself harm, and you obviously did here, then your doctor CAN admit you into a psych facility against your will. Your doc was wanting you to SAY you would take the meds to release her from any liability -- you didn't have to actually take them once you left there.

Because you willfully admitted to the doctor that all of your mother's concerns were valid and true, then your doctor was acting appropriately.

NEVER attend another doctor appointment with your mother......that I will never understand.