Not emotional, but considering the worst though.

Okay so today I made an attempt at least at googling for help. I didn't know something existed for the thing I'm experiencing.

I am uhm...

I am not like emotionally angry quickly. But there's this thing that has been going on in my mind for a long time already. I don't know if I can post about something that bad...

I literally think about probably the worst thing you could do. Actually going for the kill... Yeah I think maybe incredible torture could be worse perhaps, following death perhaps. Not even sure if that would be necessary. But torture itsself seems like even more... yeah. It's not quite that far like seriously.

Tried searching for it. Only links for suicidal things popped up. Couldn't find anything?

I made a post before this one where I almost explained the whole thing. Well I mean by that how it originated and what goes on in my mind. But at the end I needed some time to think again. And yeah... now I make a short post basically just... asking if there's a place if it can't be discussed here and...

It boils down to as if I feel like people are really playing chicken with me. Like I won't do it. I feel challenged to do it. But I have actually now decided that it's getting really bad. Seriously.

Of course never having gone over the tipping point I can't tell for sure how far I've progressed into doing this. It could be that I think it's really bad and that it's still going to take much much more. But I hate the... feeling... that... at some point I really feel like a failure when warning or stuff like that. Like people won't take me seriously. It's a really vicious thing actually I can tell you. It get's really bad. Like it's really backfiring on me. I feel more and more like I'm going to have to prove it. Even just for my own peace of mind. Cause I would like to think that I would do it. Somehow apparently I've got this in my mind that I think it would be a good thing and I'm actually pretty sure of that.

Just that I think... yeah... I don't care about making an effort not to get caught. If I do it it's going to be known. So I will... yeah I live in a different country. No death penalty, and almost no life sentences... although apparently it's still possible.

And I'm 31 basically. Yet to pick up my life and make something out of it (had some delays). And I could. I think I don't fully comprehend how good those years could actually possibly be. And I probably would throw the rest of my life away completely as well... actually, because it's probably not going to be any good anymore even after jail either. But yeah... that's debatable.

That sometimes even gets me more worked up. As if I'm going to make this person really pay for having to give that up as well. So it's not necessarily meaning I won't do it.

I'm just not sure. I've already made quite some steps... in the direction of actually doing it.

Sigh... I wonder if some people specialise in this kind of thing.

Hello and welcome .

Does this feel like intrusive thoughts to you ? In my experience , those sometimes just come on and they feel really out of character for me . I know I am not a violent person and those types of thoughts baffle me when I experience them . I have no reason to be violent and no history of abuse or trauma .

In my opinion , the issue here is control . Are the thoughts controlling you or are you controlling your thoughts ? No one here is qualified to diagnose or give professional advice . If this is troubling you or if you feel that your control is slipping away , the best thing you can do is find a therapist to talk this over with .

The human brain is weird . I can't make any sense of some of the stuff mine comes up with but I've experienced random thoughts that feel wrong. I gotta just shake my head and say " Stop it " .

I'll get back on this.

I don't think they're intrusive thoughts. It's actually been a whole process if I think about it. That never really truely disappeared and might have already started like 10 years ago.

I've noticed that it's really hard to explain. So it might take me a while.

NewSunRising wrote:Hello and welcome .

Does this feel like intrusive thoughts to you ? In my experience , those sometimes just come on and they feel really out of character for me . I know I am not a violent person and those types of thoughts baffle me when I experience them . I have no reason to be violent and no history of abuse or trauma .

In my opinion , the issue here is control . Are the thoughts controlling you or are you controlling your thoughts ? No one here is qualified to diagnose or give professional advice . If this is troubling you or if you feel that your control is slipping away , the best thing you can do is find a therapist to talk this over with .

The human brain is weird . I can't make any sense of some of the stuff mine comes up with but I've experienced random thoughts that feel wrong. I gotta just shake my head and say " Stop it " .

Well, as someone with harm-related OCD, I find it very encouraging to see your post, NSR! <3 I've always understood it that everyone gets violent thoughts- I've read that. But it's comforting to see that it really is so- well, comforting to me- the thoughts might still puzzle you.

But I've read we all get them. Just, when you're me, they become an obsession and it really ramps up after OCD kicks in.


Trigger, I reckon- and I'll expand on it a little- I guess when NSR asks if they're intrusive thoughts, if they're... disturbing to you? I have harm-related OCD that one of my obsessional fears is characterised by intrusive harm thoughts that cause me a lot of distress- or, used to, until I finally learned how to deal with them (simply not care that I have them, basically- don't worry about killing, until I have in fact, killed). If that's what she means by 'intrusive', from my understanding as someone with OCD, an intrusive thought is what they call ego-dystonic.. it's not a part of a person's core being.

Therefore, your puzzlement when one comes out of the blue, NSR- they're not really a part of 'you', therefore you're like what the heck did I think that for? But folks like you just do as you say, shrug it off as a weird thought. Folks like me, turn it into 'I'm a monster'.

If you find the thoughts frightening, or at the very least 'this is not like me' feeling, Trigger, then I'd say 'intrusive, ego-dystonic thoughts'. If not, then... yes maybe we're talking about something that would really be good to talk to a professional, about.

I'm not saying such thoughts ought to be frightening for you- rather, NSR's response is what I understand healthy minds do with them- neither want nor seriously entertain them, yet not what I do, either- which was to obsess over them and equate having thoughts of murder, with actually wanting to, or being a murderer, with a lot of distress (as well as the compulsive part of OCD, acting out compulsions to reassure myself I wasn't going to kill anyone).

I'm going to try and tell my story, so far...

I'm not exactly sure in what order this stuff started. But I know that around ten years ago already (I'm 31 now), I got hospitalised but for a mental reason instead, in like a psychiatric place for that. It seemed like I was going psychotic. And I was.

So as I said I don't know if that caused this... But at some point in my life... I convinced myself that if it would become really necessary, I would kill. I would. I wouldn't back off from that at all.

I don't seem to care about the punishment. But I don't live in the US, in our country it's no death penalty and no life sentence for this either.

But, back on topic, it was still just a thought at that point. So it didn't really seem big.

However I had already gotten pretty mad with what had happened to me and how the mental health organisations in our country had treated me. They had taken me from my home with essentially a police raid. I responded to the bell so they didn't have to enter themselves. But they were out there in force. So I lost my... well it wasn't my home. But I rented a room, like for students at that time. I wasn't going back. They had basically just removed me from there and... Basically when I would have recovered I would have to find another place to live. My stay there was over. I was hospitalised 24/7 for a while so I didn't need to have a place to live at that point anyway and we would try look for a place if I would start improving again. But I was angry about it. Especially how things had happened... not even the actual facts. But the way it had been done.

Anyway... I actually remained with psychiatric trouble for a long time. I didn't want to get on meds initially. Which they couldn't force yet. They warned me it would probably come back after a while. And yeah it did, it took a couple of years before it returned. But it still wasn't done, because then I was put on meds temporarily. And then when I got off the meds again it returned again, taking quite a while this time... and everybody had to wait before I really made a mistake that could enable them (legally) to make an intervention again.

And during those years I had several moments that really only added to my initial anger already at that moment... that kept increasing the longer I was experiencing the psychiatric care basically. I didn't feel equal to the people trying to... assist me in getting things back on track again. I felt they had power over me and then I was supposed to act unreasonably submissive. Like even the places I got hold of to live... were coupled with the care contracts. So if I wanted them to disappear I would have to move to a different place myself and I was actually getting sick of all this moving anyway. I was put in to place after place after place. I was really reacting to it very badly. I felt like they had removed me from my home initially, and that they seriously needed to get me a good one back. Where I would be independent again.

Sorry for the long story.

But the more I was experiencing this, the more this dilemma started to take shape? Actually probably the initial reason for me to consider something like murder basically... was to be able to exert more pressure on people or people working for certain organisations. But more pressure anyway than the average person might be able to. And that it would help me.

But actually something else started to happen. It was becoming quite the opposite. I tried leveraging this. But people just wouldn't take it seriously? At all. There's a couple of situations I remember really clearly where I was just... like... really pissed off.
And... it just wouldn't work.

Well if this goes on for a long time... multiple times... you start really feeling like people are mocking these threats of yours. I really felt like I couldn't get it across effectively. And the more I seemed to try to stress it... and the more they would continue with whatever it was at that point nevertheless... the more I was getting like a real problem with it... because yeah they didn't seem to care. So I felt like even worse? Instead of being able to use it, it actually turned me into feeling even more powerless. Because if they don't take this stuff seriously, what alternative do I have? It's like I already went for the max. And now I had ran out of options completely.

It was even backfiring. These mental health organisations actually gain more power over you the more you like really start to threat. So it was actually used? Against me?? *mod edit*. Sorry.

This was really getting problematic. And I felt like I wasn't being taken seriously.

It's now at a point that... well... It's still proving to be relevant which didn't really have to be the case. But it is. At the moment I live in an apartment, more or less independantly this time again. So that's a good thing. But my neighbour downstairs has somehow decided he is going to really try to annoy me as much as possible? He is 85 I believe this guy. And he's like really picking a fight is what it boils down to. And I can't really do anything. Well anything normal anyway. I have this uncertainty that I can't really 100% prove (mainly the noise disturbances) that he is the one causing this stuff. It could be the neighbour from above for example as well. But it was clear in some cases so far. So I basically know it's him because it had been him previously as well... yeah for me that's certain. But it's just think it's going to be really hard to prove.

If I do anything back? He can pretty much guarantee that I'm the one doing it. Because he lives at the bottom. I'm above him. And there's no one below him that could be the source as well. That's the basic situation that I feel like I'm in.

It's just getting really bad. He really makes an effort. There's more people as well harassing me! But yeah. Then there's this factor that it really seems like they've gotten control over at least some of my electronics. Or abusing certain privacy issues. Because they really seem to know a lot. Or it could be that they somehow keep track of me through one of the flats... that seem pretty far, but could have a very clear view of what I'm doing throughout the day if somebody would really use some strong binoculars or something. I have been a getting a lot of signs for that happening at least in some degree. And my previous... like... assisting... care people(sorry I really don't have a word for them, they have a simple word in our language) could have a really big part in this as well... especially one real like... horrible woman... that apparently has chosen this type of work.. that I had contact with for while. I think just the... potential of there being an unequal relationship just ends up making them somewhat power hungry anyway. Like... inevitably. But now it's this 85 year old moron living below me that's really pushing it.

And... but I still have people trying to help me somewhat as well though... also. Not all of them seem to be bad. Things have kind of changed since I've gotten a place of my own. And yeah... I've been trying to discuss it with them. And a different organisation has stepped in as well. They are kind of starting to pick my side... but... I don't feel like they can do anything for me unless he actually makes mistakes that could actually act as proof.

So I'm like trying to warn at least. And I have to watch out for that as well. They can't become real threats because that's illegal as well. But yeah it's eating away at me because I feel like every new warning I give, gives the people I'm aiming them at another opportunity to cross my boundries again.

I actually even began thinking at some point that this could be his intention. Like really pushing me for murder basically. Like essentially this guy is 85. And if I decide to kill him... well as I said I don't care about getting caught. I won't make an effort for that at all. So if I do this, he is 85 and he's dead. But he has basically wrecked my life as well and I'm 31?! Like maybe he would have hurt me even more than I could possibly hurt him? So he isn't even scared?

He does have to watch for me becoming really sadistic though cause if I feel like he's pushing for this scenario delibirately, he doesn't have a say in how I'm going to do it. I could really make it... excruciating for him. That would be some pay back for what he's going to cause me in the end. That's something that is out of his control.

So I probably don't have to tell you how close I've gotten already to doing this.

I've somehow been planning it a little as well. Things are taking shape in such a way that maybe 2 days from now the real opportunities would start to pop up. Where I can actually finish this.

There's also this hunch that I have that a lot more people could be involved as well, also in the background maybe? Cause once in a while it really seems very well coördinated.

And also... I really fall into this trap really early everytime as well. And the longer I'm stuck with this feeling the more I feel like I'm being ridiculed.

Gosh...

I didn't even think of this yet. But it really feels like the perfect revenge, for me considering stuff like murder that quickly already. Like God's punishing me for this. Cause it's a smart way to really get at a person and yeah. There's nothing I can do. Perfect punishment. Really sophisticated yet simple... I don't know.

I do feel like it's helping though writing this stuff down. Because it's becoming more clear to me and yeah... maybe it's just as simple as abandoning this thought because it just isn't working for me. Maybe that's all there is to it. Cause it started out as a really just a thought. So... Maybe I could change my mind about that quite simply.

But it's not intuïtive. That's basically the point. Was going to try and explain that with an "unintuïtive example" but yeah. I wanted to compare it to something in nature. In nature, you can be bitten by a snake. They can be toxic. But if they are constrictors, they usually have very vicious teeth. They have long sharp teeth that are angled inwards. So if you get bitten, and you for example want to pull your arm out... you're actually going in against the teeth... actually just deepening the grip they have on you. You would actually have to push into their mouth first in order to free yourself and be able to pull out. I feel like I'm having to do that as well.

I actually have to get rid of this attempt at creating a coping mechanism for myself, in order to get more confident of myself again. And that could actually only be in me knowing how to communicate more effectively? That I know myself that I can draw a line effectively already without having to resort to these ultimate threats.

Cause this is in fact always going ot be the last threat you get.

But I seem to use it fairly quickly already? And that's what bites me back in the end. That I was too soon perhaps. But it will still happen at some point really, but yeah it's possible by then people don't know the difference anymore between it really getting important and not quite yet. It's a gamble you could take, yeah... I would admit. But it would be a really dumb one, anyway. So better take care of that at least a bit unless you're really suïcidal.

I just used another comparison with a bull fighting a matador.

I feel like I'm the bull.

And the only thing important for me at the moment is really get this guy? For us humans in this comparison of course it's fairly simple to see what the bull would have to do. But we're talking from the bull's perspective though. And that's apparently really hard. We're routing for you anyway though, get him! Cause he's an @*#&&@@ anyway.

I thought it really pictured my struggle I feel like I'm having at the moment anyway. I'm trying really hard to attack and hit for once. And people are trying to mock me like I'm not able to. We'll see. I hope I'll get you!

Well I had some more thought on it.

And basically..

Perhaps anyone that has at one time had their boundries crossed like...

I think mine is my first hospitalization. Like in a mental hospital.

Actually I think the situation is that they can't just get away with that. It's going to leave a mark. I wouldn't be surprised if that was the reason that I got this compensating thought in the first place... but I can't tell for sure. Can't remember anymore exactly when this started.

But I don't think it makes sense to get this thought about if you're willing to kill somebody or not when nothing is wrong at all. It doesn't start like that on it's own. I can definitely tell you about that. I wasn't even close to being a violent person by nature at all. I might have even cared too much about certain stuff if anything. I don't know what my true limits are but I do know where I was coming from before this all initiated.

Well that's it. Going to leave it there.

Just for background, how are you doing with the meds at the present time? I know a lot of folks don't like to take them- it makes them feel 'flat', or whatever. But sometimes it's for the best.

As far as the thoughts- if we're on the same page here, we're talking about violent thoughts aimed at the people that you're frustrated with, correct?

I think it's just being Human, to get thoughts like that sometimes. I know I had a lot of anxiety at my last job- and sometimes I think I had confusion with what was really going on, and what I thought was going on. I definitely often thought the worst of others' actions and motives in regards to myself. I'm not entirely convinced I am right on what I would often think was going on.

And sometimes a person would be such a source of frustration, that I'd just flat out wish they were dead. I just wanted them dead- I couldn't hope for them to stop being a source of frustration, so what else was there to wish for? I wasn't going to wish I was dead!

Not that I had violent thoughts against them- but you find yourself in places that you are convinced that person 'x' is the source of your problems and you just want them to go away. And when that doesn't seem as if it can ever happen, you're left with 'I wish they were dead'.

I'm not inclined to violence- but I can think of people that if they'd dropped dead, I'd be somewhat grateful. Even though I understand that's a bad attitude on my part. And I suppose I don't really, really want anyone to drop dead. But part of me is like, yeah, please drop dead for me and stop doing what you're doing to drive me mad.

I couldn't have that- so I remained frustrated, until eventually circumstances changed- because they do change, even when we feel as if we're locked into whatever we think is tormenting us, forever. Nothing really is forever in this life- it will change, even if it doesn't feel as if it will. And I weathered the storm, and came out the other side, and the person(s) that were the source of so much angst, went on to cause someone else angst, and I was left alone, finally. Because the situation wasn't permanent.

And no one had to drop dead.

As a person with obsessive compulsive disorder, I often wish I were dead. When faced with a great fear- such as losing my job- that fear would cause me to ideate suicide. A lot. But like wanting people dead- it's not really that I want to be dead- I just want what I'm feeling to go away. But when you're tormenting yourself in your mind, you can't just run away from yourself, so what else is there for the brain to latch onto? 'I'm going to kill myself'. When I really know I'm not going to do any such thing.

I think because Death is so final, that when our brains get trapped in a corner and we can't see the way out, that our minds just jump to thoughts of that, because our minds can't think of anything else at the time. It's not that we want people really dead- or ourselves dead. It's just that we're stuck for ideas. When reality seems to be that these things have a way of working themselves out in time. Eventually, neighbors move away or change when you move away- I've had horrible neighbors- it didn't last forever. Eventually, my job changed and I was no longer working with people I wanted to just freaking drop dead. They went somewhere else, and became someone else's problem. But when we're down in that place, we can't see that nothing remains the same, we feel as if it will, and our brains just go to like the only thing it can think of. When really that's not the only option there is. And in fact, the best option is often to just be patient and ride it out.

Thank you for responding.

Yeah well actually... uhm. I had a point in my life where I thought I hated meds. But I'm quite okay with them at the moment. I have noticed I have forgot one day the past week. But that shouldn't be too dramatic. I'm actually doing quite well on them... yeah well they aren't helping much probably with this specific thing. But I don't really have a reason to stop using them at all, not inclined to.

I've heard that your body might also try in some way to compensate for certain effects. So I would like to think my body at some point will know what to do with them. After some time at least maybe?

And yeah it's like my neighbour at this point. It's really him specifically right now. And it's really like the whole situation isn't limited to him entirely. I have had some signs that the neighbour... yeah this might sound crazy... but upstairs anyway... is also this old man that might team up with him. I've already noticed some things going on with him as well.

But I'm just focussing on the downstairs neighbour at the moment. And yeah I feel like there could be more people involved in the background. To whom I would have a message as well, ideally. But yeah there's probably no way to get to know who those people are.

I've already had the first conversation about this with one of.. like.. the people I call care people.

It had all the things in it. "We're worrying about you", that's basically the line of you're going to get hospitalized again or something similar. That's the arguement they use. So that's the threat I'm having to deal with, yeah.

They try to convince me it's not like that, but... maybe not how they mean it. But that is what it's going to end up as.

TriggerTheStomatopod wrote:I have had some signs that the neighbour... yeah this might sound crazy... but upstairs anyway... is also this old man that might team up with him. I've already noticed some things going on with him as well. But I'm just focussing on the downstairs neighbour at the moment. And yeah I feel like there could be more people involved in the background. To whom I would have a message as well, ideally. But yeah there's probably no way to get to know who those people are.

Do you feel it's possible that you're seeking out things to interpret as signs ? I think you know that this is not a healthy state of mind and that whatever justification you're getting for these thoughts is not necessarily valid or even real .

Case in point : If you are the only one interpreting people's actions as deliberate aggression then any violence you do to them is basically pointless random violence . It loses any meaning you are attaching to it . Can you recognize that you may be having delusions ?

One of the most illuminating things I ever read on mental illness was this ( paraphrased ) :

" You see that guy standing on the street corner every day yelling at people that he's Jesus ? He isn't doing it because he thinks he's Jesus . He's doing it because he knows he's Jesus . "

If you can reach out for the help and intervention that you need when you think a delusion is real , the possibility of healing is far greater than when you "know" the delusion is real .

There is no justification for brutal violence on another human being . I'm really hope you can see that . The quote below is from your first post . This is the direction you need to take . Hopspitalization is not punishment . It is a chance to find out why this is happening to you and how to deal with it instead of letting it take you over .

TriggerTheStomatopod wrote:Okay so today I made an attempt at least at googling for help. I didn't know something existed for the thing I'm experiencing.

TriggerTheStomatopod wrote:It had all the things in it. "We're worrying about you", that's basically the line of you're going to get hospitalized again or something similar. That's the arguement they use. So that's the threat I'm having to deal with, yeah.

Well, quite possibly. And they're probably hoping that that doesn't have to happen. But if it does, it does. I had a family member that would have to go in hospital every so often. When things became too much for him. They'd get him straightened out again enough that he could go back home. It sucks, but if that's the hand someone's dealt, then you just have to do the best you can with it. Frankly, I'm surprised I never been- but hey, my life isn't over yet. There's still time. Don't want to, but if the day comes where I have to, then I have an obligation to my loved ones, to get care that I need.

I'm going to second what NSR said about the neighbors- if only you can see the signs, then anything done on your part is going to look very badly on you. And no amount of explanation will probably help change that perception on the part of others.

Sometimes I find myself in a place where I have a hard time with being convinced of something when there is no logical reason for it. And I'm not sure I don't currently have some beliefs like that- delusional beliefs, in other words. It is really easy to get caught up in, when the gears start turning in our heads and we look for signs- What is the saying? To a hammer, everything looks like a nail? If you look for things hard enough, you'll see them because we set ourselves up to 'see' them. Doesn't necessarily make it so. I know there's been times I have been absolutely convinced something was going on and I was the target, or object- and then later I can look back and be like hmm maybe not after all.

That's one reason I think just doing nothing is always the best course. Or think of it like this- let them get themselves in trouble. If they're doing stuff, it will eventually out, without you having to lift a finger. And if not, then nothing bad was done. Either way, you'll be blameless.