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Bipolar/Borderline Controversy and Theory

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Bipolar/Borderline Controversy and Theory

Postby DoobieDoom » Thu Jan 26, 2012 3:10 am

Hopefully this is an ok place to post this, I got scolded in the BPD forums, but I'd like to have PHD level consulsion for learning.

Lately I have been studying MRI and CAT scans dealing with the amygdala ( the little nut size portion attached to the hippocampus). It deals with fear and anger, particularly fear. My first target was finding the connection between the amygdala and anti-social PD. From here it branched off into a completely different revolution! I have been studying mental disorders since I was a kid, and one thing that has always bothered me is the misdiagnoses of Borderlines and Bipolar. I have researched and tested many of both, especially Borderlines. The main thing I feel is that Borderline is so broad and mysterious that, first off it needs to be broken down, and secondly there a state of sickness in between the two disorders.

One of my main situations that I question is a 16 year old boy I have known for about 5 years. Just last year he was diagnosed with Bipolar soon after his mom committed suicide. He was submitted to the mental unit after attempting suicide and was diagnosed there. When I first heard this I was baffled at how they could diagnose him with Bipolar when his issues were clearly a result of the traumatic experience. His mom was in fact bipolar for means of supporting the diagnosis, but as well as I know him his case was screaming borderline.

Prior to the trauma he did represent, maybe hypo-manic tendencies, which compliments Bipolar 2. But the main point is how he became friends with me. Even though we are completely opposite he felt comfortable with me, even though he was that popular kid who talked to everyone I was seemingly one of his only true friends. I was the kid who would sit in the corner being anti-social and he would go around socializing but then come back to sit with me. This is one factor that seems to represent borderline. I rarely clashed with him and caused him to "switch". I had seen him quickly change from friend to foe on everyone if they said the wrong thing.

Anyways... After his mom died he started getting random panic attacks. This is something almost completely contained in the amygdala, or so I believe. Well it is true that people with panic attacks are known to have swelled amygdalas, as well as people with Bipolar. So here is one of those hard questions that makes Psychology progress. It is indeed a known fact that Bipolar and BPD are often misdiagnosed. The testing may have been done on people misdiagnosed with Bipolar. So what I am saying is these people may have been "BPD" individuals. I don't even think it is necessary to point out that the amygdala and hippocampus is also were PTSD is formed. BPD, in my eyes, is simply a complicated branch of PTSD. From here I should study MRIs of people with BPD... I'm sure they will correlate.

My main case and point is that if my example is truly BPD, then essentially BPD is a storm in neurological matters, and should be broken down. I also think it is necessary in order to properly treat these individuals. I feel like in many cases these individuals are being given medications for something they don't even have issues with. The mark that I theorize to be in between BP and BPD may be negatively effected when being treated like the assumed disorders.

Anti-social, PTSD, BP, and BPD they all correlate. I fail to find words for my thoughts and connections between these. But I am just throwing it out there for further thought. I have found that psychopathes have a disconnection between the amygdala and the prefrontal cortex, the place were guilt and empathy is registered. I believe that BPD is similar in this matter. When the amygdalas "anxiety gauge" reaches a high level, or its maximum level, it may try and stop the emotional pain it is processing by breaking the bridge between it and the correlated section of the brain.

*The base of BPD may be a result of the amygdala and the hippocampus being shocked or traumatized. Communication between the hypothalamus may be increased as it tries to resolve the issues at hand. The amygdala and hippocampus are scarred from the lack of ability do deal with the issue. Depending on the individuals case, from the effort to stop the pain, pathes between the emotional regulations may be thrown out of whack. I believe that unlike psychopaths, the paths are smaller instead of exterminated. I feel like paths between emotions are not regulated as normal. The amygdala resorts to its state of high anxiety every time a "trigger" or "switch" occurs causing large spikes in emotions. From here I wish to construct separate therapies to target use of the faded paths, resulting in making them stronger, and well.... hopefully providing a reliable tool to cure BPD.*
I suppose any of my theories cannot be counted as creditable however. I am a 17 year old, a senior in highschool. BUT Psychology is my passion! So I am looking for the general opinion and professional advice to aid it, and I hope for comments to disregard my age and creditably.
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Re: Bipolar/Borderline Controversy and Theory

Postby WiseMonkey » Thu Mar 15, 2012 7:28 pm

I find your thoughts quite profound. I know that you wanted those who comment disregard your age and credibility but I have to say that for a 17-year old your insights are amazing because most people of older age have not realized what you have through your research.

I fully agree that Borderline/Bipolar overlap in many areas and I've also suspected for a long time that both conditions are just one of many manifestations of PTSD. If I were in charge of putting DSM together, I'd use completely different system. Most of DSM diagnosis in my opinion could be replaced with just one:"emotional disregulation due to A, B. C,...and the list goes". Emotional disregulation manifests itself through many conditions: depression, anxiety, bi-polar, PTSD symptoms etc. and, again, in my opinion, they all come as a result of a combination of accumulative trauma, genetics and environment.

Personality disorders, however, develop not only as a result of trauma, but also as a decision one makes in regards to how they will relate to the external world. People with an authentic personality pathology are essentially users of their environment, they don't give anything, they just take and whenever they give, it's only in order to take more, to stay in control of others and to get them do what they want them to do. It doesn't come in absolutes though. These people are always somewhere on the empathy spectrum never getting exactly to 0 but it's usually pretty low numbers.

When one has a fairly good ability to empathize with others, I believe, they should never be dx-d with a personality disorder. Their inadequate reactions to the environment, their difficulties in personal relationships are the result of accumulative trauma they have experienced that caused brain chemical imbalance. They are often impulsive and emotionally reactive with others and, therefore, difficult to deal with, but they are not malicious people who treat others as objects that exist to fulfill their needs.

Great topic. Thanks.
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Re: Bipolar/Borderline Controversy and Theory

Postby DoobieDoom » Fri May 11, 2012 1:03 am

I wish I could respond in detail but I'm feeling really anxious right now.. :P
I just wanted to say that I really appreciate your incite, honestly. Also it was quite "opening" for me.

People with an authentic personality pathology are essentially users of their environment, they don't give anything, they just take and whenever they give, it's only in order to take more, to stay in control of others and to get them do what they want them to do.


I really liked your take on that, and I agree although maybe not ALL such as schizoid for example, but I understand your purpose and meaning of it.

I really liked your use of "pathology" over "disorder" also :)
I suppose any of my theories cannot be counted as creditable however. I am a 17 year old, a senior in highschool. BUT Psychology is my passion! So I am looking for the general opinion and professional advice to aid it, and I hope for comments to disregard my age and creditably.
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Re: Bipolar/Borderline Controversy and Theory

Postby diemm » Thu Apr 18, 2013 2:40 pm

The main indicators of Borderline Personality Disorder are:
The INTENSE fear of abandonment, real or imagined. That is the #1 symptom.
They are unable to self-soothe and so they often suffer with overwhelming anxiety.
They also have stormy relationships with everyone in their lives, aka love/hate relationships. They go from idealization which can quickly turn to anger and hatred.
You mentioned that this boy's moods changed rapidly throughout the day, and as a bi-polar myself, bi-polar moods can cycle rapidly, but not that fast. It takes days or weeks to cycle.
People with BPD can be sad, then if something positive happens... they have the ability to change immediately to happy... That doesn't happen with Bi-Polar individuals. When you're sad, even if something positive happens, you will continue to be sad.
People with BPD have many problems with identity... they are always changing and will often mimic those they are in close contact with.
There are many more differences, but these are the main ones, I believe.
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Re: Bipolar/Borderline Controversy and Theory

Postby diemm » Fri Apr 19, 2013 7:05 am

Goodness... I guess I shouldn't have mentioned the boy you spoke about in your post.
As a new user to this site, I am adjusting to the proper terms so as to be more generalized.
That is why I am writing this addendum. i am unable to edit my original post

I suffer from bi-polar Disorder (I'm in treatment) and my daughter suffers with Borderline Personality Disorder, so I am well aware of the many differences between these disorders.
I believe that children are not able to be diagnosed with these particular disorder even if they seem to fit the criteria. There are disorders that are typical to children, but I am unsure of what they are.

I hope that you will encourage whoever it is you are concerned about to see a Dr. and get a proper diagnosis. When dealing with youth, the sooner the better.
When we forgive, we free ourselves from the bitter ties that bind us to the ones that hurt us. - Claire Frazier-Yzaguirre

check out this inspirational link.. http://www.lifewithoutlimbs.org/about-nick/
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