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Advice? Should I seek psychiatric help?

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Advice? Should I seek psychiatric help?

Postby celticcracker » Sun Jan 04, 2015 10:54 pm

So, probably due to childhood trauma I am mostly incapable of feeling good. For the longest time I have thought this is normal, that the people I see smiling in the streets and all around me are just putting it on, but I had an awakening recently when I stared indifferently at a couple who adoringly embraced their newborn child and I finally believed there is such a thing as happiness - I just can't seem to experience it. Because I've had complicated and on-going issues with clinical depression and alcohol dependency, coupled with this sort of eternal feeling of mild misery when in a good place, I am considering seeing a psychiatrist.

However, my qualms are the following: 1) I have an aversion to being diagnosed and labelled by a representative of an organisation that I do not believe to be as valid as the majority of people are led to believe, and 2) I am not in as bad a place as I have been in the past (i.e. I can function okay) and I worry that embracing the turbulent world of therapy and psychiatry will disrupt this phase of reasonable normality.

What do you guys think? Have you had similar experiences? Can you relate? What do you think the risk ratio might be with regards to seeking help and that help being eventually helpful or immediately unhelpful?
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Re: Advice? Should I seek psychiatric help?

Postby celticcracker » Sun Jan 04, 2015 11:44 pm

Oh! I forgot to add that I have never seen a psychiatrist (only psychologists and counsellors), so in reality I don't really know what to expect. I assume it will be about finding a diagnosis, receiving a prescription (I think the procedure is different in Ireland to the US, though...) and waiting for the chemicals to kick in. I was advised by the last professional I saw to seek psychiatric help for the depression, but I refused at the time because of my opinions about the psychiatric movement. Now I'm not so sure. I'm just tired of it at this stage.
So, would you say it's a risk worth taking?
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Re: Advice? Should I seek psychiatric help?

Postby Ada » Tue Jan 13, 2015 3:01 pm

For myself. I think the only use of a diagnosis. Is to optimise the route to feeling better than I did before. Depression from bipolar is different to that based on PTSD which is different to post natal. And so on. And each "tag" has a different approach. Which still may or may not work for a given individual. But at least it gives some kind of starting point. The labels are only useful if you can then use them as signposts to something better.

What do you think the risk ratio might be with regards to seeking help and that help being eventually helpful or immediately unhelpful?

That's impossible for anyone. Including you. To know. Many people find psych help helpful and supportive. It frankly saves the lives of some people. Other people have an anaphylactic reaction to a med. Or get run over by a bus on their way to therapy. Just saying "the odds aren't bad" doesn't mean anything to any particular individual.

Psychiatric help isn't always comfortable. There's often an element of things getting worse before they get better. Either because that's the effect of some meds. Or because it requires the re examination of issues and coping methods. Which have been getting you through so far. So it can be difficult to reach out for other ways of doing things. If you're doing OK, don't get help at all. If you're curious about possible changes, reach out for a little bit of help. See how that goes, and then re evaluate.

For reference. And to declare obvious bias. ;) I'm in the UK. I have been seeing a therapist for a while without any diagnosis. They're working with where I am now. And exploring other places I could be. And I have been on meds recently. I think the GP "diagnosis" was "mood disorder." I'm comfortable with it being that vague. It took two goes at finding the right meds. But the second time round was more helpful than I expected. I wanted it to "take the edge off." But it shifted more than that. And I'm not some freakish happy robot person. :roll: It's the freedom to be more like myself without a great weight pushing me under.
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Re: Advice? Should I seek psychiatric help?

Postby WiseMonkey » Wed Jan 14, 2015 9:28 am

Is taking psych drugs worth risk taking? I don't think so, especially in the light of the new research data that keeps coming out about how much harm they do and the law suits against pharmaceutical companies.

I am not someone who tries to convince people to taper off drugs. I will always give information to those interested to know what those drugs do to our mind and body as opposed to what psychiatry claims they do, but if someone wants to stay on drugs, it's their choice. If they say the drugs saved them, fine. I am not going to argue. They could certainly save someone who is unstable to the point that they present an imminent threat to themselves and those around them. But that to me is their only legitimate function - to make someone temporarily stable so other treatment methods could be used. It's not my idea. Psychiatrists like Allan Frances, the former chair of American Psychiatric Association, Dr. Lynch and others say that the prolonged use of psych drugs is unnecessary in most cases.

Those who feel they were helped by psych drugs, the "help" is basically their numbing effect. If not feeling pain is how one defines help, then yeah, sure, they can "help", but they also make you numb to everything and unable to feel the human emotions you'd normally feel, basically turning you into a zombie. But many people don't mind, because the most important thing for them is to function and to appear "normal" to others.

I can go on an on about it, but I don't need to. More and more people are waking up to the crimes of the Big Pharma, and eventually, may be sooner than we can expect, this awareness of the damage the psych meds do to our health will become the mainstream thinking. It's inevitable.

From what you described, I see no reason for you to take this poison. You are not psychotic, not in danger to yourself or others, and you are more or less functional. I don't see what exactly the psych drugs can do for you that counseling wouldn't do. They certainly wouldn't make you feel more alive, quite the opposite. If you don't want to try counseling, try peer support agencies. I've heard a lot of positive things about them and the work they do. If you are in the US, that's one of your options. I don't know about other countries.
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Re: Advice? Should I seek psychiatric help?

Postby celticcracker » Tue Jan 20, 2015 1:43 pm

lol... two slightly contradictory posts. Thanks for your responses. They're greatly appreciated.

An important thing I noticed between the two posts, is that Ada says that drugs help take the edge of off, while WiseMonkey says it takes everything off. Is that how it is, Ada? Do drugs numb people out that much?

I have been reading into these BigPharma controversies and I fully recognise the poisonous side of these drugs. I also think it's rather rude of health professions to prescribe them in the way they do. But I don't have a problem taking drugs - I'm a bit careless that way. I don't really treat my body as a temple and I've had plenty of poison in my life, so a little more intoxication won't phase me.

I mean, sure I'm functional right now, but I do have periods of absolute bleakness, in which I am completely incapacitated and they do recur. I kind of veer between #######5, really #######5 and really, really #######5. I'd really like to get rid of that and be how Ada described - more myself.

All of that said, though, it is the psychiatric movement itself that I have a problem with. Psychiatrists are liars and they exploit the vulnerability of people. It's just another way of controlling us. Since we don't live in dictatorships authorities need other methods.

Jesus, I'm at such a stasis with all this...
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Re: Advice? Should I seek psychiatric help?

Postby Ada » Tue Jan 20, 2015 2:18 pm

There are some straightforward things that can't be disputed. All humans need air to breathe and fluids to drink. After that, it depends on the person. Everyone on this board has a slightly different experience and perspective. Even with the same Dx and Rx. Both WM and I are right for some people. There's no way to know if you're one of them. Or if your experience is going to be different again.
celticcracker wrote:An important thing I noticed between the two posts, is that Ada says that drugs help take the edge of off, while WiseMonkey says it takes everything off. Is that how it is, Ada? Do drugs numb people out that much?

I took fluoxetine first. And that did numb everything. It was truly horrible. I'm not good with emotions at the best of times. This was not even close to the best. After that I took mirtazapine. That didn't seem to affect me emotionally. I felt like I came back to "normal for me." [Not necessarily "normal" for anyone else.] But did mean that I wasn't obsessing about harming myself. And felt more like tomorrow could be better than today. Rather than everything looking like one long grey trudge until I could legitimately die of natural causes. :roll: This is just one data point. Some people will have the opposite experience. Others will find no benefit from either. Some will find the same but be unable to cope with the mirta side effects.

I think WM has some good points about balancing risk vs benefit. Maybe start with counselling. And see how much it helps. If you need more than that, there's always the med path. Or it might be that it helps you identify further changes. That are worth exploring first.


All of that said, though, it is the psychiatric movement itself that I have a problem with. Psychiatrists are liars and they exploit the vulnerability of people. It's just another way of controlling us. Since we don't live in dictatorships authorities need other methods

That seems like an overly generalised statement. Some psychs in some countries do. Many Big Pharmas act against humanitarian interests on the basis of profit. But labelling the whole system corrupt, I don't think is logical. I don't see it as no more corrupt than physical health care. Which also has Big Pharma issues, doctors playing God, vulnerable people being exploited. While also helping a vast number of people. [Not to mention that I've not seen that mental health care is any better where people DO live in dictatorships. Though they have more effective ways of controlling more people.]

I actually find it odd that there isn't MORE complaint about physical health care. In a general sense, rather than just a "sue my doctor" way. But I guess it's possible to prove people have meningitis, unlike schizophrenia. And perhaps easier to manage diabetes than anorexia. The belief that mental health problems are "imaginary" is still relatively mainstream. *trigger warning* "Not depression, just slacking." "Not anxiety, just need to get a grip." *end trigger* . Which I think means it's harder to distinguish between help and harm in psych terms. To do effective risk management up front. Or to pay attention to mad maps and treatment wishes rather than assuming total incapacity. Keeping the sector black and white, saint or devil, is part of the problem, as I see it. Sorry, personal rant. :mrgreen:
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Re: Advice? Should I seek psychiatric help?

Postby celticcracker » Tue Jan 20, 2015 5:44 pm

I mean, sure it's a generalisation. It's like calling all the people of Ireland Irish when some might be Asian. What I meant was that psychiatry as an ideology is problematic. It's illegitimate pseudoscience when you consider the way it masquerades as science. Sure, medicines help people and therefore the psychiatrists, the majority of whom lie about it all (because that's what they're trained to do! How can you be a psychiatrist and not believe in the proven existence of chemical imbalances?!), actually help also. Consider this, psychiatry is not based on the scientific method. The chemical imbalance thesis is actually only an unproven hypothesis. I strongly believe that mental illness exists, but I definitely do not think that psychiatry has provided us with proof that it does and the claim that my misery is caused by a serotonin deficiency in my brain is complete and utter nonsense that I will not accept - why do I need to be lied to?! Why would anyone in their right mind train in psychiatry (i.e. b###$###) to then reject the principles of it and then claim to help people with the abhorrent psychiatric treatments available? That sounds completely absurd to me. Now, I have heard of psychiatrists who changed their mind about the chemical imbalance thesis and continue to practice psychiatry while admitting to their patients that psychiatry is bunk - but I would have serious doubts about the competency of such psychiatrists if it took them that long to figure out what the scientific method was while attending medical school...

Once the reality of this crazy movement is exposed, it becomes apparent that the sole reason psychiatry exists is to create a binary in societies that cannot deal with the mentally ill in the "community", because that side of life has always been segregated and tabooed for whatever reason - Christianity, conservatism, whatever. In other parts of the world the mentally ill are not drugged up, or treated as pathological. They're actually trained as shamans, as mystics, sages, etc. who then lend advice to other members of the community and adopt the role of counsellor/priest/whatever and - remarkably - they stay well. Since we live in this rationalised democracy, where people need to be categorised all the time, because the system cannot deal with things creatively due to a billion policies, it seems like, yeah, controlling people by whatever means possible is the only viable way to continue functioning as a civilisation that at the same time proclaims to provide us with "freedoms" so that we comply. There's something seriously wrong with humanity.

I don't know. It might look like I'll just have to let the rough beast feast its fill. Although, what you said about one drug working for you is tempting to me.
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Re: Advice? Should I seek psychiatric help?

Postby Ada » Tue Jan 20, 2015 7:11 pm

If you don't believe in psychiatry, then don't go to a psych. :roll: Deal with the rough beast through nutrition and exercise [which can work wonders for some without ever needing more hardcore meds.] Prayer / meditation. Therapy. Whatever you're comfortable with. Unless you're a serious danger to yourself or others. No one's going to force you to do anything.

We have an anti-psych/ forum if you'd like to discuss that point of view further. It's not really appropriate here.

I don't have a serotonin imbalance either. OTOH, taking something which affected my norepinephrine levels, helped considerably. To be fair, I don't know how aspirin works, either. But it's good for my headaches. That's as good a scientific method as any, at the individual level.
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Re: Advice? Should I seek psychiatric help?

Postby celticcracker » Wed Jan 21, 2015 7:06 pm

Shame...
I've tried most of those things - gave them a fair go, but they don't really help that much. Psychotherapy has been a largely failed endeavour for me, because I have trust issues, so by the time I let the shrink in the sessions have come to an end. It would cost me a fortune that I don't have right now to go through that again - and follow through with it. Other than that - drink - :!:
So, yeah. Thanks for your advice and sharing your story. It's appreciated.
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