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When lying is natural as breathing, it's no longer personal

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When lying is natural as breathing, it's no longer personal

Postby UpDownAround » Fri Jun 30, 2017 11:58 am

This largely a PSA for significant others and family members to think about. I understand it hurt to be lied to and you may feel like a sacred trust was violated. For me, giving in to drugs and alcohol when others around me were against it meant that lying was part of the package deal, not a separate offense. It might sound like a cop out and maybe it is, but you can't lock lies away from me and you can't tell if I am lying by asking me to pee in a cup. I tell the truth when I won't be attacked for being open. If threatened with extreme consequences for being dishonest then I will clam up and/or get better at lying.

I can't say if your SO or family member feels the same way or not, but it is something to think about.
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Re: When lying is natural as breathing, it's no longer personal

Postby Wally58 » Fri Jun 30, 2017 1:03 pm

Yes, but if you are lying about your own drug and alcohol use, aren't you actually lying to yourself? Aren't you telling yourself that you really don't have an addiction problem?
Asking for help may be a tough thing to do, but it can also save your life.
I'm not accusing you, I'm asking you. :)
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Re: When lying is natural as breathing, it's no longer personal

Postby UpDownAround » Fri Jun 30, 2017 1:18 pm

Wally58 wrote:Yes, but if you are lying about your own drug and alcohol use, aren't you actually lying to yourself? Aren't you telling yourself that you really don't have an addiction problem?
Asking for help may be a tough thing to do, but it can also save your life.
I'm not accusing you, I'm asking you. :)

No, I'm not. I have outed myself. I am trying not to lie to anyone now. But my point is it makes it hard when you get the lying thrown in your face a lot. It makes retreating more attractive. I am not saying I should be able to regain trust immediately just because I say everything is on the table now. I am saying that if someone makes the lying as big an issue as the drug and alcohol use, they are going to be far less help to me. For the record, the lying I am talking about is about the substance abuse; being unfaithful ( I never have been) would be lying that is very personal. Lying about substance abuse is part of substance abuse IMO. It can be like double jeopardy when it is treated like a completely separate offense.

EDIT - BTW, I wasn't lying to myself. I was justifying it to myself, especially when I was sure that I knew best.
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Re: When lying is natural as breathing, it's no longer personal

Postby Wally58 » Fri Jun 30, 2017 3:34 pm

Agree. I 'justified' it to myself for many years until it would no longer hold up. I had no other choice in the matter, honesty had to come first.

People that are familiar with addictions understand that lying is part of the disease. in early recovery, liars have to regain trust and that can be more difficult.

The first stanza of 'How it works' says this about Honesty. It is generally read at the beginning of each AA meeting and could not be more succinct:

"Those who do not recover are people who cannot or will not completely give themselves to this simple program, usually men and women who are constitutionally incapable of being honest with themselves.
There are such unfortunates.
They are not at fault; they seem to have been born that way. They are naturally incapable of grasping and developing a manner of living which demands rigorous honesty. Their chances are less than average.
There are those, too, who suffer from grave emotional and mental disorders, but many of them do recover if they have the capacity to be honest".
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Re: When lying is natural as breathing, it's no longer personal

Postby UpDownAround » Fri Jun 30, 2017 5:03 pm

"less than average" is pretty scary when you consider that AA's success rate is under 20%. Part of that is because of their goal of total abstinence though. I tried AA a few years ago, but I don't believe I am powerless and don't believe in a higher power. I only went to a few meetings. They tried to be accommodating and had some watered down steps for atheists but it still had a cult like vibe and I felt a lot of pressure to become a believer. I quit drinking for about 18 months and was at some meetings from about months 2 through 4. After the 18 months of abstinence, I went another 5 years or so of infrequent responsible social drinking before it became a problem again.
A few years ago, I started treating it like self administered medicine. It was partly because I was in denial about BP for a long, long time and managed to get a diagnosis of depression and ADHD instead. So when I had insomnia (actually hypomania), the sleep meds didn't work. I was unusually clever when I had trouble sleeping so I knew when it said "alcohol may intensify this effect" that was actually a tip, not a warning. :roll:
I make good money, but I drank cheap stuff because sneaky, sneaky. My wife does the finances. Some nights I would have a can of the 24 oz 12% ABV (more recently they changed to 14% because more is better) Loko or a 750 ml bottle of cheap Chardonnay, which is also generally 12% ABV. I would buy them individually so I would not have another handy.
Then I happened across Big Sipper wine. 5L box for about $12. If I shrank my dose slightly, I would be able to get 7 out of it. Or I could make it a little bigger and get 6. You can probably guess which I chose and what happened next, though maybe not as bad as you might think. I would usually get 4 and a couple of times only 3.
I worked the ADHD angle for Adderall and then worked the doctor - "the Adderall XR keeps me awake at night; can you give me immediate release? The immediate release is great except a lot of days I start losing focus again after lunch..." I saw a thread over in relationships where a guy was worried about taking a 12mg tab before going out and another 6mg later. I was taking 30 or 40mg with breakfast before work.
I recently decided I really need to address the BP properly when one of my kids was diagnosed. I went to a new pdoc - surprise! I still have it. Mood stabilizers instead of anti-depressants help a lot. The pdoc picked up on the giant red flag on my med list right away. The conversation went something like this - "WTF?" - "I got nuthin'" - and that's the end of that. Actually, stepping down to switch she considered maybe keeping me on a low dose, but that's not going to happen.
Then in the interest of total openness, I came clean about other prescriptions in the recent past for pain and "really bad coughs". The conversation with my primary was hard. She is younger and treats me with respect. I teared up while telling her and when I looked up, she was crying too. I will never switch primaries unless forced to by circumstances.
I came clean with my wife and she locked up remaining meds. She tends to be passive aggressive and the trust issue is one of the most powerful weapons she has ever had. So she is proud I came clean, but...
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Re: When lying is natural as breathing, it's no longer personal

Postby UpDownAround » Fri Jun 30, 2017 11:49 pm

more...

Someone at the first AA meeting I went to talked to me about sponsoring but then when he met with me one on one it was kind of uncomfortable. He ended up asking if I was sure I needed to be at AA. I had not had a drink in two months, wasn't craving it and was there on someone's suggestion because of the pattern I seem to follow which breaks a lot of AA "rules". I often drank alone, always drank with the purpose of getting a fairly solid buzz and then stopping. Sometimes I exceeded what I had set as a limit, but even then not by much. In my recent experience with the box wine, I drank as much as double my usual dose a few times which is very unusual for me. I don't like being very drunk and I think the Adderall raised the bar as to how much I could drink before I felt that. I have never had a DUI, never had a problem at work and it has not been the root cause of relationship problems. When I had problems at home with my wife losing desire for me and refusing to go to counseling, my drinking picked up in response but still stayed within my guidelines. When my wife questioned me about it, I lied because I felt like she was just trying to take away an escape from her emotional abuse.
When I have stated drinking again after stopping, I usually decide it is okay to accept a social invitation, attend and have a couple of drinks and then don't drink again until the next social event or I decide to start dosing myself again. I had never felt like I needed to call someone to talk me out of it and doubt I ever will.
When I abuse prescription drugs, I don't take enough to risk overdose and don't take them long enough to risk physical dependency. My addiction is to euphoria, not alcohol. It's just the only euphoric I can legally get without a prescription. The one I was getting with a prescription (Adderall) is only good for early daytime use. I used it later sometimes and then would need the alcohol with my trazadone to get me to sleep.

I doubt I am quitting for good this time. What is different this time is I have decided to work with the pdoc and not dose myself. I like euphorics because they make the depression easier to cope with and they take a little of the hyperactive edge off of hypomania. They slow the racing thoughts. However, they make the blurting of inappropriate comments and incomplete sentences worse. I am being very open and honest with the pdoc about all of this. I will give up my euphoric dosing if she can get me better relief.
Up and down
And in the end it's only round and round

Pink Floyd - Us and Them

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Re: When lying is natural as breathing, it's no longer personal

Postby ChevytotheLevy89 » Fri Sep 22, 2017 12:54 am

I feel as though being the one that was being lied to and manipulated and coned into being that " source " the lying is one thing that is hard for them to change. They become so accustom to lying no matter the circumstance whether it be the slightest thing of when they woke up to the bigger things of where all the bill money went. It becomes a part of them a part of their person. Just as the addiction is. I have thought long and hard about this because this was a huge issue for me amd my recovering SO and i think after 2 years i have finally wrapped my head around the reasons behind what he does and why he does them
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