Incest is a time bomb

I have read much about this subject and how people vary widely in their ways of dealing with it. I can only tell you my own experience. Between the ages of 18 and 24 I was a regular partner to my mother. She started it by coming to my room late one night. There was no talking at the start and it just happened. It led to a full, enthusiastic and adventurous relationship which even included going away on holidays together where nobody knew our true relationship and included others. At the time I thought it was fabulous and both gave and received a great deal. Now in my 60s I get nightmares, flashbacks and so much guilt.

Why do you think your feelings have changed over time?
Was the relationship damaged in some way?

I have no idea really. I am not sure whether the guilt is about doing it in the first place or not staying with her and moving away as she wanted. She wanted a baby from me but we could never quite bring ourselves to let it happen. I just do not know.

Robert888 wrote:I have no idea really. I am not sure whether the guilt is about doing it in the first place or not staying with her and moving away as she wanted. She wanted a baby from me but we could never quite bring ourselves to let it happen. I just do not know.

I would imagine it's more to do with the latter, things getting overly complicated. I think you made the responsible decision not to let that happen and should give yourself a break.

As for things escalating in the first place, the hormones of a virile young male are a powerful force of nature and make guys do crazy things.
it's obviously very taboo but you were two consenting adults seeking animal pleasure. Illegal or not, you weren't the first and you won't be the last to concede to animal lust and hormones with a family member.
For me it has never escalated beyond an erotic dream or fantasy because I would fear damaging the relationship with my son. Doesn't mean it has never crossed my mind but most people are afraid to talk about these things.
These thoughts are probably more common than is generally recognized.
Anyways, don't be too hard on yourself.

dm46 wrote:the hormones of a virile young male are a powerful force of nature and make guys do crazy things.

'Young, dumb, and full of cum' is a platitude for a reason. I don't even think the male brain is finished developing until the middle 20s or so. Would I have beat back my mother when I was 18, if she came into my room? Probably not... because young, dumb, and full of it.

Since the male brain isn't finished yet- I don't care if you were 18, Robert. I'd call this child sexual abuse. I mean who hasn't had the occasional Freudian thought or dream? I've occasionally woken with my mother on my mind in a sexual fashion- as dm46 said, it's probably pretty darn common with opposite sex parents/children, to have some subconscious stuff going on. I don't hardly see how it can't. But she's the parent; you were barely an adult. The guilt is on her, as far as I'm concerned.

dm46 wrote:

Robert888 wrote:I have no idea really. I am not sure whether the guilt is about doing it in the first place or not staying with her and moving away as she wanted. She wanted a baby from me but we could never quite bring ourselves to let it happen. I just do not know.

I would imagine it's more to do with the latter, things getting overly complicated. I think you made the responsible decision not to let that happen and should give yourself a break.

As for things escalating in the first place, the hormones of a virile young male are a powerful force of nature and make guys do crazy things.
it's obviously very taboo but you were two consenting adults seeking animal pleasure. Illegal or not, you weren't the first and you won't be the last to concede to animal lust and hormones with a family member.
For me it has never escalated beyond an erotic dream or fantasy because I would fear damaging the relationship with my son. Doesn't mean it has never crossed my mind but most people are afraid to talk about these things.
These thoughts are probably more common than is generally recognized.
Anyways, don't be too hard on yourself.

Did your thoughts extend to having your son's baby?

Robert888 wrote: Did your thoughts extend to having your son's baby?

For me it manifested as an erotic dream, unconsciously bubbling to the surface.
I felt confused and guilty that it caused me some arousal.
I would not have his baby in real life but anything goes in the world of erotic fantasy and unconscious dreams.
I found some consolation in books like "My Secret Garden" by Nancy Friday, a female psychologist who published real world accounts of secret (uncensored) female fantasies including a mothers confession of her secret fantasy.
It's comforting to know that it's not uncommon to fantasize about such things (even if you wouldn't act on them).
It also pervades mainstream fiction, the greek tragedy of Oedipus, a mainstream story still studied in school and even Jack and his "Beanstalk", a story about a young man, his penis and the changing relationship with his mother as his "stalk" (a phallic symbol) is growing out of control.
There are some interesting commentaries by Freud and others on the real hidden meaning of the story.
In spite of that, it is still difficult to discuss these things openly in modern society, leaving many to stress over such thoughts / desires in silence.

Jack and the beanstalk as a phallic symbol? Interesting. That's nothing I'd ever heard of, before.

dm46 wrote:For me it manifested as an erotic dream, unconsciously bubbling to the surface.

As me with my mother. And if she had any of me... seems to me she might have confessed to that one time. I'm sure it happens a lot, just that folks don't speak of it. It's one of those things- you wake up quite aroused, but feeling a bit freaky at the same time, yes? Or at least, I did.

To me it's mostly harmless to even harbor waking fantasies of that sort of thing- I mean, for most of us, that's all it is. Not something we're going to engage in. And if two adults engaged in it, then well, that's their business. Not that I group this into that- I mean Robert's experience. I still see you as a victim of sexual abuse on the part of your mom. 18... isn't old enough to make a good judgment call on that. Not with a parent. Barely with peers, truth be told, I think. But definitely not something like incest. Interesting that your mom waited until then- was she single at the time? For how long, if she was single? No indications before that? Most the stories that have been related here, seems to start much younger, with something quite less than intercourse, and slowly works up to it, as the child gets older.

I wonder if in her mind she was like, 'well 18's an adult so it's okay now'.

The baby thing- that's very strange. Was she hoping to cement her hold on you, I wonder? Were you a substitute for your father, I wonder? Sure seems that way.

Snaga wrote:Jack and the beanstalk as a phallic symbol? Interesting. That's nothing I'd ever heard of, before.

Yes, his Bean-Stalk a phalic symbol which makes sense when you think about it.
It represents the onset of puberty and fertility as well as out of control libido (the monstrous giant who rumbles his beanstalk)
The "magic beans" represent his seed, which he spills into his mothers hand, before planting his "beanstalk" in her garden..
Climbing the beanstalk represents the climb towards climax, to conquer the giant (libido) etc
You can search it and will find commentaries by Freud and others, it's quite interesting.

However, the real meaning has been lost to most people with the story painted as a fantasy fairy tale.

Same with the story of 'The Wizard Of Oz" which is really about Economics and money (the yellow brick road, representing gold bricks) but disguised as a children's tale. Most are unaware, taking it at face value only.

I have only learned this in recent years and used to read it to my son obliviously.

There are numerous cause of "Jocasta Complex" in women, substituting a missing or sexually inadequate husband / father is one of them.
My partner has erectile issues so that could be part of it for me.

I feel guilty for my dream evolving into conscious fantasies and for enjoying them.
but I am a woman as well as a mother, and the lines can get blurred in a confusing way for some boys and mothers.

If a boy accidentally see's Mom naked, as most family members do at some point under the same roof, does he not notice her womanly form?
And vice versa if Mom glimpses at his towering "beanstalk?"

But I agree with Snaga that fantasy is mostly harmless. It's a natural outlet for repressed sexual tension in a safe way.

I think the OP made the right decision in the end, as the pressue from your mother was irresponsible and unhealthy.
Every young man has a right to break free of his mother and make his own way in the world.

You say "Incest is a time bomb" but it strikes me that refusing her sexual advances would have led to the same outcome anyway.
That rejection may have pushed her away sooner.
The end result would probably have been the same for you either way.

Probably would have pushed her away, but seems the time bomb is the emotional consequences that continue, many years after the fact.

We have occasionally had a young (adult) man post in PF about ongoing sexual abuse from his mother, continuing into adulthood as an incestuous relationship. It definitely gets in the way of him doing what is normal for young men- wanting to date, get a g/f, etc. Stuck between a rock and a hard place- not wanting to hurt his mother, but wanting to move on.

I see it as stealing your child's childhood. And even adulthood, when a parent does that. It's terribly unfair. I had a stranger groom me for a while, and decades later, I still remain torn between the desire for more to have happened, and resentment at whatever I would naturally have been, being permanently disrupted by him. Would my sexuality have been what it is? Would I be the person I am, regardless? Don't know! Can't know. Bad enough when it's some random person doing it- but a parent? Kind of sticks in my craw, even if I see nothing inherently terrible about fantasies or an incest fetish. Fantasy isn't real lives messed up, though.