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Schizoid Vs Sociopath

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Re: Schizoid Vs Sociopath

Postby Nineteen » Thu Nov 19, 2009 5:15 am

Yeah, I'm going to use the term psychopath here, because sociopath is a little out there. In my opinion psychopathy can't be confused with SP because schizoids will just not have social relationships and actually tend to be quite honest. Psychopaths are the opposite: they don't like people, but they will form "relationships" if only for their own means, and are often compulsive liars. They're harder to detect for this reason, and psychopaths tend to only be diagnosed when they've been caught as a criminal. SP is diagnosed typically when the person comes in for depression or something. They're two very different disorders with different symptoms and different consequences. The only similarity is the lack of overt emotion, and, well, that's prevalent in many different disorders.
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Re: Schizoid Vs Sociopath

Postby Noidea_ » Tue Mar 04, 2014 7:13 pm

I'm diagnosed schizoid.

My emotions are low. I can't attach to people.
I guess the only difference between me and a sociopath is that I have a sense of morality in me.
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Re: Schizoid Vs Sociopath

Postby fluke30 » Thu Mar 06, 2014 1:23 am

Noidea_ wrote:I'm diagnosed schizoid.

My emotions are low. I can't attach to people.
I guess the only difference between me and a sociopath is that I have a sense of morality in me.

I remember this thread :D Good thread. Care to explain your sense of morality. Is it because of your emotional understanding of other people mixed with your sense of justice or equality, where you see other people as 'real'/important, part of your world.
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Re: Schizoid Vs Sociopath

Postby creative_nothing » Thu Mar 06, 2014 1:42 am

Noidea_ wrote:I'm diagnosed schizoid.

My emotions are low. I can't attach to people.
I guess the only difference between me and a sociopath is that I have a sense of morality in me.


Far from that. According to Cloninger, If you are schizoid you have a very low novelty seeking, if you are sociopath you have very high.

You could translate it as introversion/extraversion but extraversion involves also socialization. So schizoids are extreme introverts and histrionics extreme extroverts with sociopaths being extraverts too.

Furthermore sociopaths arent people wirthout emotions, they have strong, but simple, emotions like anger.

Of course a schizoid can be amoral, but then he doesnt become a full sociopath. Because we have low ambitions we can at the most become what Millon calls Nomadic Antisocial, but even Millon recognzes that this is the least dangerous form of ASPD, they dont think that society hasnot given their due, they just as he says, scavenges any resouces to keep on going, they may for instance become hookers.

Things got really dangerous when people combine traits of ASPD and NPD.
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Re: Schizoid Vs Sociopath

Postby fluke30 » Thu Mar 06, 2014 2:01 am

stirner wrote:Furthermore sociopaths arent people wirthout emotions, they have strong, but simple, emotions like anger.

I think that's what they meant by psychopath, where as sociopath is a less emotional version with lessened instincts. Like a psychopath with a pd for example.

Those aren't my words, just part of a discussion that I've skimmed over elsewhere.
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Re: Schizoid Vs Sociopath

Postby creative_nothing » Thu Mar 06, 2014 2:33 am

fluke30 wrote:
stirner wrote:Furthermore sociopaths arent people wirthout emotions, they have strong, but simple, emotions like anger.

I think that's what they meant by psychopath, where as sociopath is a less emotional version with lessened instincts. Like a psychopath with a pd for example.

Those aren't my words, just part of a discussion that I've skimmed over elsewhere.


Unfortunetely psychology has become the tower of babel.

According to DSM, ASPD is the same as psychopathy and socioopathy. ICD says the same about dissocial, but unlike DSM its criteria is not focused mainly in impulsivity.

Psychopath is a term used by criminalists, and they do make distinction between ASPD and psychopathy. According to them the psycopath checklist diagnoses less people, but is a better for predicting future criminality. And they make a distinction between primary and secondary psychopathy.

Millon calls secondary psychopathy as sociopathy. And he says that not all psychopaths are ASPD some are NPD, fewer PPD and BPD and others dont have a PD. But it seens that by his modell psychopaths are born and sociopaths nurture, whereas the first has stress imunity the second dont.

I think, we should trust criminalists not psychiatrist. The own definition of ASPD seens to go beyound the scope of medicine. If the goal of life is growing and reproducing, and sociopathy helps that, why calling it a medical disorder? If a jaguar kills my cattle, I wouldnt call him a psychopath jaguar.Furthermore if you look into history, you will see how much $#%^ was made by people who well, obbeyed


This is one of the thing I try hard, bur cant understand. But of course, it takes a lot of detachment to think that way.
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Re: Schizoid Vs Sociopath

Postby ZonedOut » Thu Mar 06, 2014 8:14 am

A psychopath can be described as a sociopath with a twist. They are not the same. Psychopathy is a bit ''more'' than sociopathy alone.
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Re: Schizoid Vs Sociopath

Postby creative_nothing » Thu Mar 06, 2014 3:33 pm

A psychopath can be described as a sociopath with a twist. They are not the same. Psychopathy is a bit ''more'' than sociopathy alone.


Yes, but again, psychology has become the Tower of Babel specially when concerning sociopathy.

Now what I dont get of this post is, why this comparison? For all I know SzPD is the cluster A personality disorder that has least to do with AsPD or any cluster B personality disorder. SzPD is much more close to AvPD and OCPD.

Paranoids share much with both NPD and ASPD but also with AvPD and OCPD.

Even StPD, specially those who score high in impulsive non conformity has more to do with cluster B, specially the Borderline. But even impulsive non conformity is different in StPD and NPD/ASPD. It has more to do with a need to be different and think different than with NPD need for attention and lack of boundaries or with AsPD compulsive lies.

Now please correct if I am wrong, people are making this association by considerind AsPD equal to extreme egotism.

But I guess it is not that so. In order to have AsPD you need to have some issue, like believing society has not given your due, being an narcissist with an inverted counciouness needing to be see as powerful, being extremily controlling(sadistic or paranoid), beliving society rejected you(avoidant), or a need for danger(histrionic). That is what Millon list, but I guess there may be other motives. But I believe plain and simple egotism is not AsPD.

Furthermore as I mentioned early I dont belive primary psychopathy is a disease, these people are indeed extremily sane and plain egotists. And as I mentioned early not all psychopaths meet criteria for a PD.

The only thing that make we look like AsPD is detachment and paranoia, but then again, it is not a disease, in mild forms it make us more sane then the rest of mankind.

But I guess egotist have some mental disease. They have such a low taste, considering themselves more important then me.
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Re: Schizoid Vs Sociopath

Postby EtherealStarlight » Thu Mar 06, 2014 5:05 pm

well, let's look at the traits of sociopaths and see which ones schizoids have too:

Glibness and Superficial Charm

no

Manipulative and Conning
They never recognize the rights of others and see their self-serving behaviors as permissible. They appear to be charming, yet are covertly hostile and domineering, seeing their victim as merely an instrument to be used. They may dominate and humiliate their victims.

no

Grandiose Sense of Self
Feels entitled to certain things as "their right."

no

Pathological Lying
Has no problem lying coolly and easily and it is almost impossible for them to be truthful on a consistent basis. Can create, and get caught up in, a complex belief about their own powers and abilities. Extremely convincing and even able to pass lie detector tests.

no

Lack of Remorse, Shame or Guilt
A deep seated rage, which is split off and repressed, is at their core. Does not see others around them as people, but only as targets and opportunities. Instead of friends, they have victims and accomplices who end up as victims. The end always justifies the means and they let nothing stand in their way.

yes, with some schizoids... although others may feel guilt and empathy.

Shallow Emotions
When they show what seems to be warmth, joy, love and compassion it is more feigned than experienced and serves an ulterior motive. Outraged by insignificant matters, yet remaining unmoved and cold by what would upset a normal person. Since they are not genuine, neither are their promises.

yes - a schizoid will probably be unmoved by things that would upset a normal person, and they may fake emotions for various reasons.

Incapacity for Love

yes

Need for Stimulation
Living on the edge. Verbal outbursts and physical punishments are normal. Promiscuity and gambling are common.

no

Callousness/Lack of Empathy
Unable to empathize with the pain of their victims, having only contempt for others' feelings of distress and readily taking advantage of them.

yes, although we don't often take advantage of people, to my knowledge.

Poor Behavioral Controls/Impulsive Nature
Rage and abuse, alternating with small expressions of love and approval produce an addictive cycle for abuser and abused, as well as creating hopelessness in the victim. Believe they are all-powerful, all-knowing, entitled to every wish, no sense of personal boundaries, no concern for their impact on others.

no

Early Behavior Problems/Juvenile Delinquency
Usually has a history of behavioral and academic difficulties, yet "gets by" by conning others. Problems in making and keeping friends; aberrant behaviors such as cruelty to people or animals, stealing, etc.

no

Irresponsibility/Unreliability
Not concerned about wrecking others' lives and dreams. Oblivious or indifferent to the devastation they cause. Does not accept blame themselves, but blames others, even for acts they obviously committed.

no

Promiscuous Sexual Behavior/Infidelity
Promiscuity, child sexual abuse, rape and sexual acting out of all sorts.

no

Lack of Realistic Life Plan/Parasitic Lifestyle
Tends to move around a lot or makes all encompassing promises for the future, poor work ethic but exploits others effectively.

maybe, some schizoids will depend on others rather than have to work if they can get away with it.

Criminal or Entrepreneurial Versatility
Changes their image as needed to avoid prosecution. Changes life story readily.

no


Other Related Qualities:

Contemptuous of those who seek to understand them

maybe

Does not perceive that anything is wrong with them

maybe, they may sense that they are different but see nothing wrong with what they do.

Authoritarian

no

Secretive

yes

Paranoid

yes

Only rarely in difficulty with the law, but seeks out situations where their tyrannical behavior will be tolerated, condoned, or admired

no

Conventional appearance

yes

Goal of enslavement of their victim(s)

no

Exercises despotic control over every aspect of the victim's life

no

Has an emotional need to justify their crimes and therefore needs their victim's affirmation (respect, gratitude and love)

no

Ultimate goal is the creation of a willing victim

no

Incapable of real human attachment to another

yes

Unable to feel remorse or guilt

maybe

Extreme narcissism and grandiose

no

May state readily that their goal is to rule the world

no



so, i'm guessing that the typical schizoid has between 8/30 and 12/30 sociopathic traits, perhaps even less if they can still feel guilt and empathy. there are many things that sociopaths do that schizoids definitely don't, like trying to be charming, breaking the law, and a need to control other people. we're somewhat similar, but much, much different in many ways too.

there's a pretty big difference, i think! :P

oh, and if anyone cares, i found this list here: http://www.mcafee.cc/Bin/sb.html
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Re: Schizoid Vs Sociopath

Postby blankslate » Thu Mar 06, 2014 6:00 pm

I thought an inherent difference btw the two is schizoids are hyper sensitive, low sensory threshold, and sociopaths are hyposensitive, high sensory threshold so they constantly are looking for stimulation. Maybe.

I found a 5 page paper on a schizoid who killed his parents. He was given BIS/BAS scales. His BIS was average and his BAS scores were all well below average. I think psychopaths & sociopaths are associated with normal BIS and high BAS scores.
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