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Schizoid from Attachment Disorders?

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Re: Schizoid from Attachment Disorders?

Postby DaturaInnoxia » Sun May 24, 2020 11:48 pm

HSS wrote:
Beth Thomas' adopted mother, Nancy Thomas, is connected to the organization and wrote a book called "When Love Isn't Enough.


Love isn't enough... for what? The title implies some goal to reach with the child.


Her idea of the title is that loving the child and providing nurtance isn't enough (except that would be true with most kids in the system as well as any kid with mental health issues).

The "goal" is creating attachment (she seems forceful about it though)
- and addressing the often underlying cold homicidal rage within them
- and addressing the behavioral issues that put them or others at risk (possible examples: stealing, destroying property, lighting things on fire, sexually assaulting others, trying to harm and/or kill people and/or animals, blackmail and other forms of intimidation, lack of emotional regulation, substance misuse and other high risk behaviors).

This isn't “love”, to begin with. Love has no purpose. If you love your son, the child, as he is, is enough


I agree with your line of thinking

Btw: did you read this book? What is “enough”?


As far she's concerned, a lot of "enough" seems to be about gaining control and dominance over them because they're 'bad' and need to be made 'good'
...... you might be starting to see some of the basis of my ongoing complaints around moralizing.
^ this approach isn't exactly effective for adult addicts or people in corrections either, but it's commonly utilized in those areas too.

I was searching for a free download of her book until I read through her blog and was too disgusted to search further.
Though I might still read it in the future when I'm less emotionally reactive.

The other part of the mind frame is about forcing bonding via "hold" techniques.
^ I won't even start on how invasive, disrespectful and retraumatizating that could be.

She and other caregivers act like the kids are the "bad guys" and need to be fixed by the "good guys" = the caregivers.
^
I have enough experience to know that when adults start portraying children as more adept and powerful beings than them (as I saw some people imply in related discussion threads which others validated) it means they're plenty ###$ up too and just don't have the insight to recognize it.

I read one excerpt, and from the way the 6 year old was described, you'd think the child was a criminal mastermind with a fully developed adult-functioning brain - or the psychiatrist was retarded - or that the writer was showing their own severe emotional immaturity and scapegoating the 6 year old. Funny what the vast majority prefer to believe rather than looking at their own behavior

Complaining how "manipulative" the kids are is a terrible connotation to have connected with the youth because then almost everything they do or need they have isn't taken seriously - they're just "manipulating"

All humans manipulate to meet their needs (behaviorism) - some just do it against the "rules" of acceptable behavior.


Other trains of thought are more trauma informed
- like where one addresses "manipulation" as trying to meet a need but there's either a lack of skill or a it's result of power imbalances or other forms of disempowerment.
^ and that all behaviors have a reason.
^ and that acting out is when people don't have the skills to deal with a stressful situation effectively.

Lack of skills can be difficulties with emotional regulation, problem solving and other forms of reasoning, changing tasks, social interaction skills, communication skills (like naming feelings or describing what's wrong or what they need), low frustration tolerance, the fact that a lot of kids with behavioral issues tend to have a naturally low-irritable mood baseline, etc.
^ and your perception of their behavior influences how you treat the kid which influences how they respond (Dr. Ross Greene).

Kids act out not only as a result of a variety of a lack of skills but a trauma emotional baseline is usually 6, 7, 8/10 (as opposed to 2, 3, 4/10), so they go over the edge a lot quicker.

I agree with trauma-informed perspectives: with any behavioral problems in youth, instead of control battles and power struggles, one should focus on giving dignity, respect and offering as much control and choice / self-determination as possible, etc. < the more out of control they feel, the more legitimately dangerous they are (and rightfully so).
The more comfortable and in control of themselves and their environment they feel, the more they're able to come up with their own answers to their problems (positive psychology).
My issue is that I can become ridiculously overly protective with any human which is also very unhealthy, so staying out of the way can sometimes be difficult for me and something I need to work on.

I seem to have derailed again
They collect information to stock pile in their souls, saying, "I will tuck this into my subconscious for later use."  ~ unknown
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Re: Schizoid from Attachment Disorders?

Postby HSS » Mon May 25, 2020 9:32 am

DaturaInnoxia wrote:Kids act out not only as a result of a variety of a lack of skills but a trauma emotional baseline is usually 6, 7, 8/10 (as opposed to 2, 3, 4/10), so they go over the edge a lot quicker.


What are all of these numbers about?
“Humor is reason gone mad."

“Be yourself; everyone else is already taken.”
HSS
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Re: Schizoid from Attachment Disorders?

Postby DaturaInnoxia » Mon May 25, 2020 10:19 am

HSS wrote:
DaturaInnoxia wrote:Kids act out not only as a result of a variety of a lack of skills but a trauma emotional baseline is usually 6, 7, 8/10 (as opposed to 2, 3, 4/10), so they go over the edge a lot quicker.


What are all of these numbers about?


I got lazy and bunched the numbers together

I was trying to use an example of emotional/behavioral states through a scale of 1-10 emotional continuum

1/10 would be calm and content

10/10 could be crisis
Examples: emotional explosion or physical explosion, among other things

I'm using the word "baseline" as one's most regular emotional/behavioral states. 

A typical individual who is managing stressors well, will probably have a baseline that is below 5/10
^
Such as: 2/10 or 3/10 or 4/10

Those with trauma as well as those who lack skills or those who experience other struggles (including chronic stressors) usually have baselines higher than 5/10
^
Such As: 6/10 or 7/10 or 8/10

If you imagine that number increasing everytime a stressor occurs without having ways to bring them down, it will take what looks like almost nothing to set them off (bring them to 10/10) because they're already naturally so close to 10/10 most of the time anyways
They collect information to stock pile in their souls, saying, "I will tuck this into my subconscious for later use."  ~ unknown
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Re: Schizoid from Attachment Disorders?

Postby HSS » Tue May 26, 2020 9:24 am

Where I get confused, it's that I don't like to abuse people, when I am in a powerful position. I hate it, and I don't act that way. But sometimes, abused children seem to expect your bad behaviour; they seem to believe that you are an idiot if you act differently.

I have no deep experiences about it 'though. Just some occasional observation, and things you read.

Let's imagine: I adopt a child, he is used to being beaten if he behaves “badly”. I just don't want to beat him. Then, he thinks that I am a weak or stupid person, as I don't punish him so hardly as he is used to, and his bad behaviour increases more and more.

I refuse to behave as he would “want”. It disgusts me, I feel pain, and I think that it's not right towards him. I have an intuition about the underlying reasons, for his childish or dysfunctional behaviour.

Beating is just an example, perhaps it's excessive, and doesn't give the idea. But some things are against my nature. As far as I can, I like to be delicate in my social exchanges.

But when you read suggestions for adoptive parents, on some website, they write that you need to be very hard, because these children need a leadership, to feel safe. Otherwise, they don't feel safe.

I am confused.

I think that these people have a too much simplistic vision, about “strength” and “weakness”. During a war, things often look the opposite of what they are.

When I behave harder than I wish with my son, to demonstrate him that “I am the leader”, am I really strong? I am acting against my nature to obtain his approval, and I am violent towards myself and my feelings, if not his.

Maybe I am stronger if I follow myself, and I act sweeter.

But does the child get it? I guess it depends on each individual child?

I wonder if it's right, to lead the way in this:

I have the strength and the courage to be vulnerable (too)

as opposite to

I am so weak and vulnerable, that I need to be “strong” with you (it's not a real strength btw)

But websites write that children with attachment disorders don't feel safe, if you don't demonstrate that you are the leader... and so, it seems that you need to engage in this power war, and win them.

I am not writing that I intend to be a submissive victim, surely not. But the intent to dominate them sounds excessive and disagreeable to me. Even more, I fear that this behaviour is destructive, considered that power war and power abuse are their trauma.

...What do you think about all that?
“Humor is reason gone mad."

“Be yourself; everyone else is already taken.”
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