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Why the avolition- My God!!!

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Why the avolition- My God!!!

Postby rishi851 » Tue Jul 23, 2019 11:12 am

I used to post frequently here back in the day and now post on schizoid reddit where I made the exact same post:

I read comments about how it's all about "if you're fine with yourself, ###$ the world", and it's all good. In fact with age(I am 34) I have come to not only make peace with my schizoid-ness but even revel in it. I was insecure and even needy all my 20s. I feel in the past few years I have changed. My schizoid does not bother me one bit. However................

the problem is I am not fine with myself. When I compare myself to the 24 year old me- I am deteriorating mentally, physically and psychologically. The negative traits- apathy, anhedonia, laziness, lethargy.. ..it seems its only getting worse with age. I certainly had more energy 10 years ago. I could sit and concentrate on a movie or even two a day. Now I can barely finish a 10 minute web series. I can barely sit through a book.

What is worse is I have the desire. I buy books- I like paleontology, astronomy, comics, video games but everything is just piling on the side. I can't play video games, rather just fantasize or sit staring.I buy games and just create a collection. This anhedonia is getting worse with each passing day.

Why is this happening? Why the avolition? I have dreams, I can even fantasize about ambitious days but when it comes to do anything I just can't.
I create lists, I set plans and then never do them or do them half assedly and leave.
With food I create a food chart and follow it for 3 days and then back to square one. I go on a walk one day- feel great and promise I shall do it again tomorrow and then kaput!

There has to be a physical aspect to this- this absolute desire to not do things, not follow up. Why this zero willpower? Why the lack of motivation to such an extent> This is biology right, guys?

Tell me..........How is not enough love in younger years result in this avolition? How is low affection and love in my early life dictating my physical being today on a daily basis? How is neglect and abandonment resulting in dire laziness, lethargy and apathy?
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Re: Why the avolition- My God!!!

Postby Oblivion » Tue Jul 23, 2019 1:19 pm

rishi851 wrote:
the problem is I am not fine with myself. When I compare myself to the 24 year old me- I am deteriorating mentally, physically and psychologically. The negative traits- apathy, anhedonia, laziness, lethargy.. ..it seems its only getting worse with age. I certainly had more energy 10 years ago. I could sit and concentrate on a movie or even two a day. Now I can barely finish a 10 minute web series. I can barely sit through a book.


Yes, exactly.

I don't think it's physical, unless you feel very fatigued. Anemia? Low protein? See a doctor to rule all that out if it's really bothering you.

Are you on any meds? SSRI's make my avolition worse.

What is worse is I have the desire. I buy books- I like paleontology, astronomy, comics, video games but everything is just piling on the side.


I create lists, I set plans...


Some good signs that it's not all lost. Do you ever have isolated moments when you feel ambitious or are able to get engaged in things? If even for a short time? If so, try to figure out why. Work backwards and try to think of any triggers (good triggers) that gave you this ambition. What do you think put you in that state of mind?

Proper sleep hygiene is important. Are you getting enough sleep? When I'm backed up on sleep it makes all these symptoms worse.

For me, what sucks is that when I'm at work I think about all the stuff I want to do and get very psyched up about doing them. Then when I get home.....nothing. It's like there's something in the air.

I've been trying to use the law of inertia: things in motion tend to stay in motion. Doing stuff even when I don't feel like it, hoping something will click.

Keep fighting it. I think if you don't fight it, it will get worse.
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Re: Why the avolition- My God!!!

Postby Schizological1 » Tue Jul 23, 2019 7:00 pm

Question is which one of (true /false self) you makes those lists.. If it doesnt come from your inner desire you will not have a motivation to do it.

I have the same thing happening for me,10 years for you and 3 months in my case.
I can say about myself that i hope for inner motivations to come once i connect to the world, i think you have to feel connected in some way to be really motivated, becuz nothing matters espacially when you can so easily subtitute the real world with fantasies, again your case might be differrent but im sure part of its elemente are like my story.
Im schizological in reddit btw
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Re: Why the avolition- My God!!!

Postby Akuma » Wed Jul 24, 2019 4:44 am

rishi851 wrote:the problem is I am not fine with myself. When I compare myself to the 24 year old me- I am deteriorating mentally, physically and psychologically. The negative traits- apathy, anhedonia, laziness, lethargy.. ..it seems its only getting worse with age. I certainly had more energy 10 years ago. I could sit and concentrate on a movie or even two a day. Now I can barely finish a 10 minute web series. I can barely sit through a book.

Why is this happening? Why the avolition? I have dreams, I can even fantasize about ambitious days but when it comes to do anything I just can't.
I create lists, I set plans and then never do them or do them half assedly and leave.
With food I create a food chart and follow it for 3 days and then back to square one. I go on a walk one day- feel great and promise I shall do it again tomorrow and then kaput!


Do you generally feel like it gets better when you force yourself over the block point? I have a lot of blockages, too, both in my creative work but also even with stuff like playing games or with watching / binging series etc. Not to speak of going out there @_@. But often there is a certain time that I need to get over and then the blocked feeling goes away. It also seems a bit like something that is learned, like a muscle... but it also seems to get mor ehard when there is more [unconscious] stress.

There has to be a physical aspect to this- this absolute desire to not do things, not follow up. Why this zero willpower? Why the lack of motivation to such an extent> This is biology right, guys?


That seems liek the typical schizoid thing to do, to classify it under nature and feel powerless t change it, offloading responsibility to the universe ;). It might have to do something with tolerance for the lack of power you have in the real world - including TV series etc. Fantasizing is normalyl free of anxieties etc. because you are god. Everything else is always a bit of a hassle because even if you are unaware of most of it due to some disorder, most of the stuff, including body functions etc, is beyond control.

Tell me..........How is not enough love in younger years result in this avolition? How is low affection and love in my early life dictating my physical being today on a daily basis? How is neglect and abandonment resulting in dire laziness, lethargy and apathy?


Well because one has no ingrained coding of positive expectation. If you experienced the world as being welcoming, warm, etc, then that will make it way easier to go into the world and expect it to be this way. If you experienced it as cold, indifferent etc. then not only will you have less wish to go out there, but you will probabyl also have controlled certain affects that tortured you, so that you yourself also have become cold and indifferent to a degree, complicating the whole thing.
dx: dissociative disorder + npd
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Re: Why the avolition- My God!!!

Postby Cholls » Fri Jul 26, 2019 11:51 pm

Akuma wrote:It also seems a bit like something that is learned, like a muscle...

Yes. According to William James, that is exactly what it is.

William James, The Principles of Psychology, Chapter IV, 'Habit' :

http://psychclassics.yorku.ca/James/Principles/prin4.htm

==============================

'The first lesson would have to do with the all-important issue of inspiration. All writers know that on some golden mornings they are touched by the wand — are on intimate terms with poetry and cosmic truth. I have experienced those moments myself. Their lesson is simple: It's a total illusion. And the danger in the illusion is that you will wait for those moments. Such is the horror of having to face the typewriter that you will spend all your time waiting. I am persuaded that most writers, like most shoemakers, are about as good one day as the next (a point which Trollope made), hangovers apart. The difference is the result of euphoria, alcohol, or imagination. The meaning is that one had better go to his or her typewriter every morning and stay there regardless of the seeming result. It will be much the same.'

. . .

[[ Herein lies the deadly trap for schizoids, because it is not true for you: ]]
'The best place to write is by yourself, because writing becomes an escape from the terrible boredom of your own personality.'

. . .

'The question of revision is closely allied with that of inspiration. There may be inspired writers for whom the first draft is just right. But anyone who is not certifiably a Milton had better assume that the first draft is a very primitive thing. The reason is simple: Writing is difficult work. Ralph Paine, who managed Fortune in my time, used to say that anyone who said writing was easy was either a bad writer or an unregenerate liar. Thinking, as Voltaire avowed, is also a very tedious thing which men—or women—will do anything to avoid. So all first drafts are deeply flawed by the need to combine composition with thought. Each later draft is less demanding in this regard. Hence the writing can be better. There does come a time when revision is for the sake of change—when one has become so bored with the words that anything that is different looks better. But even then it may be better.'

-- John Kenneth Galbraith, Writing, Typing, and Economics
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Re: Why the avolition- My God!!!

Postby Schizological1 » Sat Jul 27, 2019 11:45 am

Cholls wrote:
Akuma wrote:It also seems a bit like something that is learned, like a muscle...

Yes. According to William James, that is exactly what it is.

William James, The Principles of Psychology, Chapter IV, 'Habit' :

http://psychclassics.yorku.ca/James/Principles/prin4.htm

==============================

'The first lesson would have to do with the all-important issue of inspiration. All writers know that on some golden mornings they are touched by the wand — are on intimate terms with poetry and cosmic truth. I have experienced those moments myself. Their lesson is simple: It's a total illusion. And the danger in the illusion is that you will wait for those moments. Such is the horror of having to face the typewriter that you will spend all your time waiting. I am persuaded that most writers, like most shoemakers, are about as good one day as the next (a point which Trollope made), hangovers apart. The difference is the result of euphoria, alcohol, or imagination. The meaning is that one had better go to his or her typewriter every morning and stay there regardless of the seeming result. It will be much the same.'

. . .

[[ Herein lies the deadly trap for schizoids, because it is not true for you: ]]
'The best place to write is by yourself, because writing becomes an escape from the terrible boredom of your own personality.'

. . .

'The question of revision is closely allied with that of inspiration. There may be inspired writers for whom the first draft is just right. But anyone who is not certifiably a Milton had better assume that the first draft is a very primitive thing. The reason is simple: Writing is difficult work. Ralph Paine, who managed Fortune in my time, used to say that anyone who said writing was easy was either a bad writer or an unregenerate liar. Thinking, as Voltaire avowed, is also a very tedious thing which men—or women—will do anything to avoid. So all first drafts are deeply flawed by the need to combine composition with thought. Each later draft is less demanding in this regard. Hence the writing can be better. There does come a time when revision is for the sake of change—when one has become so bored with the words that anything that is different looks better. But even then it may be better.'

-- John Kenneth Galbraith, Writing, Typing, and Economics


As fun as fantasies can be i still get bored from my own personality, eventually all these fantasies are in a way me, the way i think expressed in imagination, so even when i imagine conversation between me and a charecter i know that the charecter is me or my own way of interperating the world, so its never really enough, the limitlessness is fun but at the same time its very boring and unsatisfying for me
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Re: Why the avolition- My God!!!

Postby Cholls » Sat Jul 27, 2019 7:34 pm

Eldror wrote:As fun as fantasies can be i still get bored from my own personality, eventually all these fantasies are in a way me, the way i think expressed in imagination, so even when i imagine conversation between me and a character i know that the character is me or my own way of interpreting the world, so its never really enough, the limitlessness is fun but at the same time its very boring and unsatisfying for me

Well-put. Eldror, you've said you're 25. That's young!

The following question is very probing. I apologize for its directness but hope that it may have value to readers, whether or not anyone feels like responding to it.

How likely does anyone think it is that, with age, schizoids lose the boredom with their own personalities which Eldror has described above? Becoming either subtly inured to the dissatisfaction, or even possibly mistakenly reattributing that dissatisfaction to the external world?

As sucky as Reality and The Other oftentimes are, one has to admit that both keep our brains and muscles from atrophying. Unfortunately, it's often impossible to control that fire hose Otherness dispenser. I hardly leave the house and, when I do, need plenty of down time to recover.
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Re: Why the avolition- My God!!!

Postby salles » Fri Aug 02, 2019 6:18 am

Cholls wrote:How likely does anyone think it is that, with age, schizoids lose the boredom with their own personalities which Eldror has described above? Becoming either subtly inured to the dissatisfaction, or even possibly mistakenly reattributing that dissatisfaction to the external world?

It is difficult to answer.
In my case, SSRIs seem to have enahnced anhedonia and have a numbing effect. I am not sure if it is my true self that feels nothing really matters and therefore, on the surface am more accepting of myself and others.
However, in spite of this apathy I still condemn the external world. One is NEVER too old to do this. :)
I mean seriously, it is in a depressing state of affairs. Bureaucracy, capitalism, other people's greed, lust for power, materialism, ignorance will always bother me.
I do believe the right environment can be healing and nurturing, at any age. For me this entails living in nature, with reduced ( not more) human contact. When/if I accomplish this I know I will not need SSRI's and will certainly not suffer any angst about being a little 'off-centre' ( as perceived by others)
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Re: Why the avolition- My God!!!

Postby Oblivion » Fri Aug 02, 2019 8:32 pm

salles wrote:In my case, SSRIs seem to have enahnced anhedonia and have a numbing effect.


That's why I stopped taking them. It's like being mummified in cheesecloth.

However, in spite of this apathy I still condemn the external world. One is NEVER too old to do this. :)
I mean seriously, it is in a depressing state of affairs. Bureaucracy, capitalism, other people's greed, lust for power, materialism, ignorance will always bother me.
I do believe the right environment can be healing and nurturing, at any age. For me this entails living in nature, with reduced ( not more) human contact. When/if I accomplish this I know I will not need SSRI's and will certainly not suffer any angst about being a little 'off-centre' ( as perceived by others)


My thoughts exactly. That's why I still take my klonopin.
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Re: Why the avolition- My God!!!

Postby emillionth » Fri Oct 18, 2019 10:06 pm

I didn't really read the whole thing, but I wanted to respond because I think this is what SPD is actually about. People tend to focus on the reclusiveness, but that's just what characterizes it, not what makes it a disorder. Anhedonia and avolition (sides of the same coin) are the issue.

I searched for the word "sleep", and there it is:

Oblivion wrote:Proper sleep hygiene is important. Are you getting enough sleep? When I'm backed up on sleep it makes all these symptoms worse.

Yes. It should be a top priority.

The other thing I also wanted to mention is regular physical activity. For one thing, it's intertwined with sleep quality. But there's also all the consistent and well-documented mental effects. And you don't need to look as deep as scientific research, the principle is simple: if you exercise regularly, you get tired regularly (and at the same time, you get a "rush", because of endorphins and whatnot), then the simple act of resting becomes a meaningful and enjoyable activity. In other words, it gives meaning to the "doing nothing" you're already used to.

And then, once you're well-rested (which may take a while if you're not used to physical activity), the more lasting (but often also immediate) effect of exercise is your mind gets more active, then it becomes actually uncomfortable to be doing nothing. So you go ahead and do something. Doesn't matter what it is, just do it, and then follow from there. Or maybe stay aimless forever, at least you'll be distracting yourself from the fundamental meaningless of existence (is there anything else to life anyway?).

I think the reason why people tend to fail when they try to address the issue of meaningless and lack of motivation is that the natural (and culturally promoted) way to go about it is to "figure out what is the meaning/purpose of life" (or the meaning/purpose of your own life at least), as if meaninglessness is curable. It isn't though. There is no meaning or purpose, there is only the illusion. And if you can't acquire and sustain the illusion naturally (most people do it by "social osmosis"), then the best you can do is deliberately maintain the illusion yourself, against your own knowledge.

So sooner or later, to make real progress, I think you need to come to terms with the fact that this isn't an issue to be overcome so you can move on with your life (as therapists tend to approach it), it is your life.
Is this now?
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