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Does Mindfulness Eventually Work?

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Does Mindfulness Eventually Work?

Postby CityMouse » Wed Dec 05, 2018 6:51 am

I have been practicing Mindfulness Meditation to stop with the intrusive thoughts. Can you be mindful all day?

Another question: is there any psychological difference between daydreaming about someone insulting you and them actually doing it in real life?
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Re: Does Mindfulness Eventually Work?

Postby Squaredonutwheels » Wed Dec 05, 2018 9:33 am

From what I've observed; Mindfulness meditation seems like watered down Vipassana tailored to the west.

Perhaps the aim isn't to STOP intrusive thoughts but to focus on the sensations as they come and go and accept their transient nature.

Trying to stop a thought is a tar baby in the middle of the road.
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Re: Does Mindfulness Eventually Work?

Postby xcagedsilhouttex » Wed Dec 05, 2018 10:31 am

^the point of mindfulness is to accept thoughts and not to stop them. It's a good part of the therapy required to deal with intrusive thoughts but not the only part and certainly not the part of therapy involved in stopping the thoughts.

CBT is integral, particularly ERP (exposure and response prevention). ERP has been more successful at reducing intrusive thoughts where as mindfulness is successful at managing those thoughts when they appear. A mixture of DBT and CBT will help in the management and reduction of intrusive thoughts over time.
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Re: Does Mindfulness Eventually Work?

Postby CityMouse » Wed Dec 05, 2018 1:21 pm

That helped a lot, thanks. Therapy doesn't much help. They say I have schizophrenia, that I hear voices. BS. I have Pure OCD/rumination.

I asked my therapist about positive self talk. No that doesn't work. Ironic process theory. It makes it come back even more.

She said I control who I put myself around. Then I had intrusive thoughts of going to a small town where I have to socialize. It even affect my functioning in the workplace, as every single job is interactive, even data entry.

I'm not in control of anything I don't think. I don't believe in free will. That helped me let go of blame/resentment as well as responsibility. I think success is based on luck. That, to me, is forgiveness. I wondered, forgive, but how exactly? How do I go about it? I tried praying for the person, writing a letter to them, I couldn't forgive, until I let go of the notion of free will.

I think the whole mental health industry is a sham. They keep reassuring me that I can avoid people, that I'm in control of my life, that life has a purpose, etc. Reassurance is the kiss of death for OCD. I kept asking every week. Man, what a waste of ten, looooong years.

Anyway thanks!
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Re: Does Mindfulness Eventually Work?

Postby orinoco » Wed Dec 05, 2018 1:45 pm

Mindfulness works ... if I am mindful to others and vice versa. The rudeness between people is the problem:
"And then one day, nearly two thousand years after one man had been nailed to a tree for saying how great it would be to be nice to people for a change, a girl, sitting on her own in a small cafe in Rickmansworth suddenly realised what it was that had been going wrong all this time and she finally knew how the world could be made a good and happy place."
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Re: Does Mindfulness Eventually Work?

Postby iabsurdlyexist » Wed Dec 05, 2018 8:46 pm

I haven't found good therapy in CBT or DBT. I'm either immune, already have the necessary tools or I don't have the same issues they treat. I guess maybe I just don't understand what composes an intrusive thought. I can have thoughts about plenty of $#%^ that doesn't apply but unless it's in my immediate circumstance, it's a pointless thought. Also, am I going to actually do something about it at this present time. If not, pointless to think about it.

That being said, I do get anxiety and paranoia for no reason and have to figure out why. In my mind, I don't create those situations but have to react to them. It's then just logically figuring out what makes sense or not. If I can't logically figure out the reason, I just deal with the physical manifestations as false. I can't stop them but I can disregard them. Really, my problem is just tired of dealing with them. It's not that I can't, it's just that I don't want to anymore. The fix seems to just avoid situations in which they present themselves. Of course, avoiding life doesn't work in a lot of circumstances.
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Re: Does Mindfulness Eventually Work?

Postby Holodeck » Fri Dec 07, 2018 3:59 pm

I've never understood the exact meaning of mindfulness. When I look up the definition search says this.

1. the quality or state of being conscious or aware of something.
"their mindfulness of the wider cinematic tradition"

2. a mental state achieved by focusing one's awareness on the present moment, while calmly acknowledging and accepting one's feelings, thoughts, and bodily sensations, used as a therapeutic technique.

I wouldn't call what I do meditation in regards to mindfulness because the closest thing I do to meditation would be maladaptive daydreaming. I'm too detached if/when doing so I wouldn't consider it being aware enough. Meditation has always come off to me as trying to build more awareness so that sounds like it can't be the same. It also doesn't get rid of intrusive thoughts. Mding can make it much worse for me especially as my meds

When I'm around others though I have gotten much better at being "there" and mindful about responses. I would contribute this to knowing when to step away from others but knowing not to be away so long that it becomes an anxiety. If I feel comfortable around them I might inch a little more into the situation to see if I can handle more of it each time. Sometimes I'll set myself time goals to push myself a bit.

It doesn't seem to do anything to my intrusive thoughts. My intrusive thoughts aren't typically based off of others but rather myself (unless it involves the skin walker who claims to be my mother.) It's mainly based off of what she used to teach me that if I didn't do a thing that I would in turn have something that was very irrational happen. When I say irrational I mean it often resulted in her acting irrationally like having to write a word 500 time because I mispelled it or threats that should've put me in CPS. If you read my post here, these are my coping methods for intrusive thoughts. They work very well for me.:

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Re: Does Mindfulness Eventually Work?

Postby muaddib » Sat Dec 08, 2018 7:02 pm

I used to meditate a lot more and also practice mindfulness, though the numbness has made it a lot harder and less rewarding these past few years. I always felt mindfulness, especially while doing things, mainly helped by beefing up your sensory and cognitive integration; it helps you sense the "larger connected whole" more clearly.

If you're primarily looking for help with intrusive thoughts though, Squaredonutwheels is exactly right:
Squaredonutwheels wrote:Perhaps the aim isn't to STOP intrusive thoughts but to focus on the sensations as they come and go and accept their transient nature.


Part of meditation is just observing one's thoughts dispassionately, and if you can learn to watch your intrusive thoughts just pass by when they first come on, without triggering a compulsive train of thoughts, they should stop being intrusive.

Think of it like you're a kid with an annoying sibling. The sibling keeps poking you, and but if you make a big deal about it and react, it just encourages them. If you just calmly make a judgment, "You're being annoying", then ignore them, they usually stop.

Beyond the meditative aspect of it though, I think there's an emotional part to it too. Since most people's intrusive thoughts are disturbing in some way, they feel the need to counteract them. I think it really helps to realize that the mind can be very random and everyone has bad thoughts sometimes, but that's normal and doesn't define you anymore than what's on TV while channel-surfing. It's only if you linger, indulge, or act on them that they start becoming a problem.
“Oh Freedom! You are a bad dream!” - Heinrich Heine
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